Price of vehicles to go up

Anonymous wrote:

This conversation does remind me of 6-8 years ago. I remember this forum laughing at the eclectic augers that will never work. Now, every body has one, or a drill. I’m sure back in the day people laughed at the car itself, but never underestimate good old American ingenuity

And I’m still using my gas engine. Why fix what ain’t broke. Auger has only seen ‘tru fuel’ and has never skipped a beat. Tried and true technology when used properly. Will last many years.

Hole drilling in ice is one outdoor Category that I spent good money for a lifetime solution… gas engine baby!

EVs using electricity generated from coal or natural gas is still significantly more efficient and produces significantly less CO2 than gasoline. Until gasoline vehicles hit 100 mpg it will always be that way.

mark-bruzek wrote:

Coal fired electric cars…
Everyone seems to think electricity just flys out of a unicorns A$$.

As of 2019 – US Electricity Comes From:

Natural Gas – 40.5%
Nuclear – 19.7%
Coal – 19.3%
Wind – 8.4%
Hydro – 7.3%
Solar – 2.3%
Other – 2.5%

The truth is that our electrical grid will need a major overhaul. What is also true, is that the statistics or standards are averages going forward (as some have mentioned). Coal also only generates 1/5th of our energy on the national level. It is not the lifeline it once was. It’s a part of electrical generation, but it’s logical to predict that percentage will continue to decrease.

We in Minnesota with one of the more extreme climates, being predominantly rural, and having a relatively small population will not see the major changes at the rate other places do. Don’t think that our infrastructure system is going to rely on the same things as the largest cities in the mildest climates.

Nobody is coming after everyone’s oh so necessary trucks. You will still be able to drop your kids off at school, get groceries, and pick up your wife’s coffee at your local Twin Cities suburban shop all while keeping your a** warm with heated seats in your rugged crew cab 5′ box pickups without issue.

Gotta go, my latte is ready.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Browndog wrote:</div>
And in 3 years the next president will executive order to reverse Brandon’s. 40 MPG on a gas engine (especially a towing pickup) is not feasible nor realistic.

Combined mileage. A towing pickup will not be expected to get 40 mpg. With a mix of fully electric and gas engines in a manufacturers lineup, there will be no trouble hitting the 40 mpg. I’d be surprised if all manufacturers greatly exceed it by then.

But look at the new 2022 Tundra…the hybrid V6 is only at 19 mpg with a $15k higher price tag than their 5.7L that is capable of 16-17 mpg. Lot of extra $$ up front for a minimal gain IMO.

Here is what our region is using and producing right no. Coal is still a big factor. I work at a power plant and see these numbers every day

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This is a map of area where the graph numbers come from

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But look at the new 2022 Tundra…the hybrid V6 is only at 19 mpg with a $15k higher price tag than their 5.7L that is capable of 16-17 mpg. Lot of extra $$ up front for a minimal gain IMO.
[/quote] (Sorry IDO’s Quote function works about as well as our government at most levels)

I don’t necessarily disagree that a few MPG is nothing…but you cannot attribute 100% of a cost increase to specifically one component of a build in a time of historic inflation. Toyota could produce the exact same truck for 2022 with NO changes and it would be probably 10-15k more expensive due to labor costs, material costs, etc.

Just look under the hood of any modern ICE car or truck. It’s unrecognizable with all those components that don’t magically build themselves out of nothing for free. As far as emissions, your individual vehicle has to handle those chores. Withe an electric vehicle you have no emissions equipment. The coal exhaust at the power plant can be scrubbed and cleaned to remove all the nasties before the final exhaust enters our atmosphere. And that industrial complex has all the room to do it. Imagine what your ICE car would look like if it were required to be zero emissions, and how all those components will add to the cost of a vehicle that costs $75 to fill the tank.

buckybadger wrote:

But look at the new 2022 Tundra…the hybrid V6 is only at 19 mpg with a $15k higher price tag than their 5.7L that is capable of 16-17 mpg. Lot of extra $$ up front for a minimal gain IMO.

(Sorry IDO’s Quote function works about as well as our government at most levels)

I don’t necessarily disagree that a few MPG is nothing…but you cannot attribute 100% of a cost increase to specifically one component of a build in a time of historic inflation. Toyota could produce the exact same truck for 2022 with NO changes and it would be probably 10-15k more expensive due to labor costs, material costs, etc.
[/quote]

I agree with that. I actually just bought a 2021 Tundra a few months ago and the dealer initially had a $10k market adjustment on top of the MSRP. They said it was due to lack of inventory….We did not pay a dime of that adjustment btw.

While our economy, education and healthcare systems are going to heck. Crime skyrocketing, the national debt growing by the trillions a month. We worry about carbon emissions we are creating. We create 12% or less of the total in the world. If we could cut that in half. It wouldn’t be noticeable in the overall problem. China is about a third and building coal plants in a dozen countries and China. Three to one that we are closing. Other large polluters are doing nothing to decrease theirs, most increasing. Also, the cargo ships produce more than all the cars in North America combined. They burn a sludge petroleum by product. That left to cool forms a solid you can walk on. Gee if we could just find a way to have a pipeline from Alaska and Alberta. Were petroleum is refined under the highest environmental standards in the world. Buy people making a above average wage. That would result in gas prices cut by 30 or 40%. Lowering cost of all goods. Then work on gas milage and substitute fuels were they actually make sense.

Sludge petroleum byproduct you can walk on!!! That’s marvelous!!! I think we can use it in asphalt paving…one mans trash is another mans treasure.

Browndog wrote:

But look at the new 2022 Tundra…the hybrid V6 is only at 19 mpg with a $15k higher price tag than their 5.7L that is capable of 16-17 mpg. Lot of extra $$ up front for a minimal gain IMO.

Toyota screwed the pooch when they put all their eggs in the hydrogen basket. Now they are trying to play catch-up.

If you look at fords hybrid truck, the cost upgrade is well worth it due to the added functionality of having a huge generator on wheels. The added cost/value of the vehicle doesn’t all go to the mpgs like you are suggesting.

Gobbler wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Mr.Beads wrote:</div>
How will the US electrical grid handle this transfer of energy consumption, and how come I can’t see any plans in regards to that as well? Seems like it should go hand in hand.

agree, never no talks on this, I would guess this would eat up the whole infrastructure bill and still not be enough. They better get those shovels in the ground soon. Can’t see how it will happen without nuclear energy which they don’t want

That’s not even taking into account the cost of mining for the rare minerals, etc to make the batteries and then what to do with them when they are no longer working. Thinking solar, wind and electric is “clean” is asinine.

as technology improves and industries scale up, relative prices go down.
there are already truck options for early adopters who want to pay the price (Rivian, Hummer, Tesla, etc.) and in 10 years when they offer realistic towing capacity while maintaining 500 mile range and 15 minute recharges at realistic market prices? it’ll happen, and I’ll buy.

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

And I’m still using my gas engine. Why fix what ain’t broke. Auger has only seen ‘tru fuel’ and has never skipped a beat. Tried and true technology when used properly. Will last many years.

I still have a strikemaster I use when the ice gets 18″ or so. Before that I use a drill & hand laser attachment.

Anonymous wrote:

I’m sure back in the day people laughed at the car itself, but never underestimate good old American ingenuity.

My great-grandpa and my grandpa had this exact conversation one day in the 19-teens. Grandpa told me an early Model T came past the feed store where they were loading feed and he commented to his father about it.

Great-grandpa then and there declared that the automobile would never be anything but a plaything for idiots with more money than sense. There would never be a practical use for them because they were unreliable.

Our ability to see the future is always restricted by our view of the present and what is possible now. Was there a gas station on every corner when the Model T was introduced? Hardly. The electric vehicle is still in its infancy. Just like the internal-combustion vehicle, there will be a long list of problems that will be solved.

Electric is far more capable and advanced. Look at the lunar rovers. They are electric and no charging stations for 238 thousand miles. I’d like to see them get an Internal Combustion Engine to work on the moon.

I’ve been thinking the same thing from the start
Stevenoak: Were petroleum is refined under the highest environmental standards in the world. Buy people making a above average wage. That would result in gas prices cut by 30 or 40%. Lowering cost of all goods. Then work on gas mileage and substitute fuels were they actually make sense.

We HAD energy independence in our country already. Were actually exporting and making money and NOT supporting terrorist, human rights violating and pollution giants around the world before this administration. YES, take the money we would be saving and earning, spend it on private contracts creating/developing new energy sources while we continue to do what we can to bring our “carbon footprint” down. Also, YES, anyone who thinks batteries are the godsend knows nothing about how they are made, who is doing the labor, the environmental impact and the “recycling” of these things.
One other thought, why not mandate ONE type of electrical hookup for your car as long as you are mandating everything else. Am I supposed to believe that every car manufacturer is going to make a charging point that’s universal for everyone?! I would/will love electric when it’s completely viable but getting will take some pain.
BTW, the DRIVERS side heated seat has failed in my F150 – no big deal as I’m only going to the grocery store in my supercab with 6.5 foot bed ( not my 4 door SUV with 5 foot bed) Won’t need it when I’m pulling the boat cause my ass will be warm from the excitement of soft water.

There is a finite amount of oil that can be refined into gasoline. I say let’s use up the other peoples oil first and save ours for last. We will need it to protect our reserves during the massive world war when the oil spigots start running dry. Today’s terrorists will seem like the little brats down the street when that time comes.

castle-rock-clown wrote:

Electric is far more capable and advanced. Look at the lunar rovers. They are electric and no charging stations for 238 thousand miles. I’d like to see them get an Internal Combustion Engine to work on the moon.

And most people travel further in 20 minutes than any of the rovers have driven in their mission. They literally move feet a day and are given time to recharge.

I’d love to see a rover pulling a boat to Mille Lacs.

Hey. The lunar rover can even fly on the moon, I seen it on a commercial…I think the two astronauts on board were headed to the Sea of Tranquility.

This is more than a few feet a day. Groovin Together

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Here’s a Range “Rover” pulling a boat

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castle-rock-clown wrote:

Sludge petroleum byproduct you can walk on!!! That’s marvelous!!! I think we can use it in asphalt paving…one mans trash is another mans treasure.

Problem being emissions are far worse than diesel, coal or any other fuel.

I really like the Tesla cars, one of my friend’s have and it is very nice, and it works for his situation of commuting to his work as they have charging stations. But I think the one thing that everyone should be concerned with these new cars/trucks electric or gas with all this electronics in them, is that it’s a matter of time before a administration like we have currently in Washington to mandate/executive order that only certain cars or people can use there vehicles on certain days etc… pandemics.. Probably far out there but I wouldn’t put it passed some in Washington to push this therory.

gregory wrote:

I really like the Tesla cars, one of my friend’s have and it is very nice, and it works for his situation of commuting to his work as they have charging stations. But I think the one thing that everyone should be concerned with these new cars/trucks electric or gas with all this electronics in them, is that it’s a matter of time before a administration like we have currently in Washington to mandate/executive order that only certain cars or people can use there vehicles on certain days etc… pandemics.. Probably far out there but I wouldn’t put it passed some in Washington to push this therory.

Ahh yes. Fear mongering is strong in here. When ol Brandon dies of dementia, President Harris is going to control our lives, our information and our cars. Soon we will look at North Korea as a beacon of freedom. Always gotta live in fear. It’s the only way preserve muh freedums.

It’s hackers you need to be worried about. Not the libs.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gregory wrote:</div>
I really like the Tesla cars, one of my friend’s have and it is very nice, and it works for his situation of commuting to his work as they have charging stations. But I think the one thing that everyone should be concerned with these new cars/trucks electric or gas with all this electronics in them, is that it’s a matter of time before a administration like we have currently in Washington to mandate/executive order that only certain cars or people can use there vehicles on certain days etc… pandemics.. Probably far out there but I wouldn’t put it passed some in Washington to push this therory.

Ahh yes. Fear mongering is strong in here. When ol Brandon dies of dementia, President Harris is going to control our lives, our information and our cars. Soon we will look at North Korea as a beacon of freedom. Always gotta live in fear. It’s the only way preserve muh freedums.

It’s hackers you need to be worried about. Not the libs.

That deserves a gold star. I call it the drumbeat of negativity being pounded into us. It’s a shame that there’s too many people who if they’re told over and over again that they are a cucumber, they will start to believe it. The best and longest running one says social security is on the verge of collapse, been hearing that for almost 50 years now.

“ That deserves a gold star. I call it the drumbeat of negativity being pounded into us. It’s a shame that there’s too many people who if they’re told over and over again that they are a cucumber, they will start to believe it. The best and longest running one says social security is on the verge of collapse, been hearing that for almost 50 years now.”

I think that is defined as a cult.

Unfortunately too many people in this country fit that mold. They allow others to think for them without using their god given powers of reason to think something through – just listen blindly to someone else and follow their lead. Those are the people who think the moon landing was staged and the Holocaust was fake. That’s why we keep repeating the same sh-t over and over again -IMHO

good thing my union negotiated wages are up every 2 years for cost of living expenses. bring it on brandon! i got no problem sitting in a brand new paid for 2022 Ford Lightning in the near future.
Ha, probably not but this year i finally sold my gas hog 4 stroke honda lite auger and went to all electric for my hole drilling needs!
baby steps for me…..baby steps.
truth is, i did it to save 10 pounds tho on my body