I need help guys!

I don’t have dogs. My lifestyle will not allow for dogs because I’m not around enough to see them properly cared for. Therefore, it’s all about wits…… and mine are losing the battle!

Does anyone have any successful experience in hunting coyotes in swamp/brush country without the use of dogs that can give me some insight on what to do? Do I have to do it in the dark? Do I need intercepting standers between them and the caller? Is there a way to successfully/regularly bait them in? How far apart should calling areas be located? 1/2 mile? 1-2 miles? How far apart should the hunts take place? One week? 2-3-4?

Anyone?

I’m on my phone so here are some short answers. I take a lot of what I learn from trapping. Understanding pack size and range is important in the right answer. If you have a pack of 2 covering a range of 5 Sq miles in 2 days, then you get an idea of frequency in a spot. Then it’s a matter of wind and other contributing factors.
When I run up to northern wi and hunt the beaver swamps, it’s generally a daytime hunt. I prefer light snow and overcast. But you can’t pick the weather all the time.
Depending the terain, I do like to set multiple people. It’s all wind and vantage point. Sometimes the caller is sitting in the worst vantage point to give shooters a better position. Much like a guide on a elk hunt. They usually position the shooter and call from behind

I find early morning works better for me I don`t know if they are more relaxed or what but have better luck first light.

Looks like I’ll have to invest in a couple more trail cams so I can get an answer to frequency. I don’t live in the area I want to thin so I can’t tell much by just tracks. I know of two common crossing points but now that everything is frozen over, I’m not sure if the “funneling” is still taking place. With all the holiday stuff ramping up I’m not sure I’ll get any answers anytime soon but it’s clear, I’ve still got some work to do if I’m ever going to lay down a solid strategy. Thanks!

I’m not sure how useful trail cams will be for coyotes. While it’s always nice to know they are in the area, my belief is that coytes are not like fish or pheasants. there’s no such thing as “good coyote holding cover”

Coyotes are preadators and as such they must be constantly on the move and hunting. The animals they hunt are keenly aware that they are on the menu, so at any sign of coyote presence, those animals move or hide. And so the coyote must move even more to find them.

So IMO there is no such thing as a good coyote area. It’s only good if they coyotes happen to be using it while you’re there calling or hunting.

Personally, I won’t do stands any closer than 400 yards, UNLESS (and this is a biggie), I believe there is a barrier that the coyotes will not cross. In that case, I call on both sides of the barrier.

For example, in one section I hunt on a cattle ranch, there is a narrow field that runs through the middle of the 160 acres. On either side of that field, it is brushy pasture and woods and I have killed coyotes here before.

But in my experience, coyotes in this area will NOT cross open ground. Ever. So I call one side, go out of sight to cross the field, and then call the other side. Even though the field is only 75-100 yards wide and certainly coyotes on one side would have heard me calling on the other.

There are two theories on calling an area and how close together to make stands. One theory says to call lound and cover a lot of area. With the volume generated by eCallers, basically every coyote within a half mile is going to hear a full-volume call on a calm day.

IMO, this is too lound. It might work on zero pressure coyotes in Nebraska, but in Minnesota I think it spooks more yotes than it attracts.

I start at low volume and work up to about a 3 or 4. I never call at full volume unless it’s very, very windy.

Coyote hearing is very keen. Even calling at the lowest volume, I’ve had coyotes come roaring in after 15 seconds of calling. Now if you think about the noise made just getting into a stand, my conclusion is that the coyotes in this case had to be at least 100 yards away or I would have spooked them. So therefore, the coyotes heard my call AND covered the distance to get to the Free Lunch. All within 30 seconds. Now that’s hearing.

The #1 thing is just getting out there. That is the only real 100% edge you can give yourself. Everything else is a percentage play based on factors that you don’t fully know or control.

Grouse

From what I can tell in the area I’m focusing on, most of the animals hole up in the thick, messy areas and all too often my serenade responses are coming out of the same areas so I tend to believe, in this case, they spend a fair amount of time there.

I don’t have the luxury of setting up for long yardage shots. From a tree stand, I could never see anything beyond 200yds. ON the ground, maybe 60-75yds max, and this is limited opportunity. The surrounding properties are much the same and our observations are similar to yours…. they will NOT cross open country so it makes no sense to set up for wide open shots.

I also agree that they’ll only come so far and then they’re going to start circling for scent or confirmation. Because I’m in thick country, I think they’re circling before I even know they’re around.

The winter helps with visibility but from what I’ve been able to determine, we have one well used, often crossed, funneling area where they cross from one swamp section to another with ease. Almost anywhere else means they’re swimming to make a crossing. The sign under thawed conditions is mind blowing but this spot will not give you so much as 20yds from any vantage point! It’s tag alder, springs, tamarack/balsam, and other junk wood and grasses. Humans can’t cross because we’re too heavy and sink in the bog springs. Coyotes cross with ease. But now that everything is frozen over, will they continue to use this passage?

I appreciate all of your input FG…… I really do. I’m just not sure if my situation is completely different or if I’m not understanding what you’re trying to tell me.

What I’m really digging for is an answer to this question: How can I effectively hunt coyotes in short range, low visibility areas? I wish I had a picture of the area via satellite photo to show you and see what strategies or tactics you might suggest, try, or lean toward.

I think this is problematic for anyone north of 94. I don’t have a good answer because I drives me nuts. After hunting in SD where I can see for miles in several of my spots, when I sit in the deer stand or coyote hunt in Mn I really have to adjust my hunting style.

I wonder if an Ecaller would allow you to play the wind better? Nothing beats a coyotes nose, well except maybe a wolf. In this heavy cover, I guarantee these dogs are using the wind to their advantage. I would also recommend a product called Nose Jammer. I’ve had it work on coyotes at less than 20 yards dead down wind of me.

Good luck, I hope you shoot a bunch. I’m itching to pull the trigger on a dog!

Kooty! Where does one find this so-called “Nose Jammer” product? Sounds like a MUST!

Most sporting goods stores. Its an aerosol can. Red in color.

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What I’m really digging for is an answer to this question: How can I effectively hunt coyotes in short range, low visibility areas? I wish I had a picture of the area via satellite photo to show you and see what strategies or tactics you might suggest, try, or lean toward.

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Well, first there’s the choice of weapons. Shotgun and heavy shot is the only way to go for close quarters combat, IMO. Personally, I shoot a 12 ga with Hornaday Coyote loads in BB shot, or buckshot. I prefer #4 if I can get it, but it’s hard to find.

Next, setup. I agree you have to get into the cover with them, but what I’m always looking for are two things:

1. A clear trail or path where I can get into and out of the cover while making absolutely the minimal noise possible. Even if you have to cut your own, getting in quietly is golden.

2. Find the most open area you can INSIDE the thick stuff. For example, I hunt a creek bottom that’s a tangled mess, but I set up a little farther up the bank on the upslope of the hill where the trees are bigger and thinner.

Coyotes in the think stuff are not being called out into the open, so I think they still feel they are within their safe zone.

Keep in mind, thick cover is thick for the coyotes too. If you call effectively, the coyotes are going to keep looking until they find the free lunch, so they might crawl into the same jacket with you, but they will come in.

Scent and the lengths that coyotes will go to to get downwind is an interesting question. The problem hunting in heavy cover is that you never know about the coyotes that circle downwind and bust you.

But I do know that I’ve had coyotes come roaring in from every corner of the four winds, completely unconcerned. So it’s not every coyote or every coyote in every situation that cares.

Grouse

Okay…. I’ve got a shotgun and a few boxes of both Federal 4BK and Hornady BB, and one box of Dead Coyote “T”. That Dead Coyote stuff will break the bank so I’m glad to hear you like the Hornady stuff!

Okay, I’ve got a handful of spots I can imagine fit your descriptions.

1. Do you camo to the brush or camo to the snow? Or do you mix it up? I have clothes to do all 3…. just wondering what works for you?

2. What call do you succeed on the most often?

3. Do you use anything to decoy them?

Thanks for your input Grouse! You’ve encouraged me!!!

Grouse put up a lot a great info. I differ on a few points, but then defining “open” leaves a lot of latitude for discussion and interpretation. Coyotes will go into open areas that are directly related to their habitat. Maybe not an open 80 acre field, but they will often stand in the grass or brush and investigate what is out there. Even here in mostly open farm land, we shoot most of our fox/coyotes standing in the fence row while looking for us because they don’t run out to the middle of the field.

Coyotes don’t just happen to visit a section of land or just happen to be there. They are in every part of their range for a specific reason. There are high percentage areas that WILL hold coyotes more often than others. Especially in dense wetlands like tag-alder/beaver swamps. Take a moment and quit thinking about the coyote. Think about hunger/food. If your hungry, where are you going to go??? Refrigerator, grocery store, or a restaurant…. and most likely in that order.
Coyotes are very notorious for returning to a free meal – thus a dirt hole. They’ll eat, get full, and bury a partial rabbit, bird, stuff they regurgitate, and so on. If they don’t have something in the refrigerator, they go to the store. Where do you see the most rabbits, grouse, mice,…. Not in a general term, but very specific? What is unique about that one spot that you always know you’ll see some cotton tail or snowshoe hare? For me, its always along the edge of the frozen tagalder swamp where the ground elevates a few feet and a line of poplar trees start. Usually quite brushy and a freshly fallen poplar tree. To me, that is the meat section of the grocery store.
Desperation spots would be the restaurant. Just like you, you know you can save money by going to the grocery store and fixing a meal yourself. But when extreme hunger kicks in, they will fore-go the risk and enter the very open spots hoping for a free meal. Getting a coyote to surpass their natural instincts to remain cautious is probably the most amount of work and largest investment of time.

Where do you sleep? At the grocery store, in the middle of the road between the restaurant and grocery stores? Most likely in the security of shelter from other predators (wolves), the elements, and so on. You probably have a view of the road to see anyone coming towards you. You also want some warmth from the morning sun and the ability to escape wind, with having a view of whats going on in the neighborhood. Coyotes do the same. Within their range, the will have very high percentage bedrooms. They don’t randomly plop down and decide its time to sleep. They have areas that they will feel the most secure in for sleeping. It can be multiple areas, and often so! But there are still very high percentage spots where they den. Denning – could be along a log, ground den, grass, under evergreens…all depends on their environment and shelter needs. Not always, but very common when you hear coyotes sounding off and beginning to serenade, they are at or near their den area. Ky-Yi is more often in the route to the grocery store.

You stated an observation that I think is very true and its good that you understand this. Coyotes have the advantage to see with their nose and most likely have circled you without you knowing it. It happens MUCH more than people think. Especially in thick cover! While walking back from a set, I’ve seen tracks in my tracks and saw where they danced back and forth and decided to walk away rather than coming in any further. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of stupid coyotes amongst the packs.

The screen shot is one of my favorite places in northern WI, near Prentice. Nearly all beaver swamp with a small beaver pond that changes. Until freeze up, its worthless. Once frozen, its a mecca for wildlife. Though, not “everywhere” is good. in fact, about 90% of it is vast waste land when considering holding rabbit, grouse, mice…. There are only a few good elevated spots that remain dry.

But years ago, I learned to walk the deer trails and let the available wildlife tell me where to go. Deer and coyotes are not too different in travel methods. Once I began to look at what I saw, I noticed the deer trails weaved in and out of the edges of all the key habitat necessities. From there, it was identifying the best vantage points. Lets be realistic on expectations – if your standing in a room with no windows, you don’t have a view. Same for in a swamp. You sometimes have to forgo areas because you do more education to the coyotes, than anything else. Pick you vantage points carefully and IF you can get to them undetected. It could be a 30 yrd view or a 100yrd view. Every one may be different.

Use the terrain to your advantage. Use areas they don’t want to enter or cross as your backdrop so they can’t circle you.

Scent control – SCENT CONTROL!

e-callers – Great for getting you separated from the call. Very effective tool in allowing you to call to a desired spot, and yet have you sitting at the best vantage point.

Sorry I have to cut this off….time has been too short for me recently. Daughters in another wrestling tournament and I have to go. When I can get back to the puter, I’ll finish up

I think my head is in alignment with the things you’ve shared so far. Next time I’m up there, I’ll take some photos to show you what I’m dealing with. Comparing to your pictures, my target area is much thicker. There is shoot lanes and some grassy “plains” between treed areas, buck brush, and tag alder sections. I have plenty of area that’s normally above the water level but there is the stream that cuts through it and has enough depth that during soft water months, I don’t think the coyotes cross it too much. They have that one short pass that gets heavily used. As far as a “not cross” barrier, I’m going to have to really think about how to use that, if it’s possible at all.

I do have spots and trails that do allow me to get around without creating too much noise so I feel encouraged that I can get into higher percentage areas fairly easy. The concern however, is whether or not they’re in a place they can watch me come in. Just as there’s places I feel I can make them vulnerable to me, they might be using it to make me vulnerable to them just the same.

Do you ever use snow shoes and do they add to the puzzle regarding scent control?

I’m feeling like a shotgun will likely be the answer in this area as well. Unless it becomes feasible to get up a tree, I just don’t see where I’ll have to reach out and touch ’em. If they’re coming in, they’re coming in. If not, I probably wouldn’t have a shot anyway.

Speaking of trees, if you had a blind built up a tree, should I be getting up into it? My nephew’s stand is well blended into a white pine and he’s seen coyotes pass during deer season. I think he’s near one of those “bedrooms”. What do you think?

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Grouse put up a lot a great info. I differ on a few points, but then defining “open” leaves a lot of latitude for discussion and interpretation. Coyotes will go into open areas that are directly related to their habitat. Maybe not an open 80 acre field, but they will often stand in the grass or brush and investigate what is out there. Even here in mostly open farm land, we shoot most of our fox/coyotes standing in the fence row while looking for us because they don’t run out to the middle of the field.

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Yes, by “open” I mean that I’ve found that coyotes are very wary of crossing or entering open pasture or fields. The bottom line for me was I had to learn the hard way that unfortunately this is a HUGE difference between hunting in MN and what you see on TV where they are hunting Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc, where they are calling in coyotes across a mile of open ground. Don’t waste your time trying to make that happen in Minnesota.

I agree, they seem to have no problem with “relatively open” spaces like brushy pasture areas, areas with larger trees, but relatively open on the ground, oak ridges have been very good for me.

I think the key is in what Randy said, about the fact that the coyotes should FEEL like the open area is part of thier territory and not some “danger area” where they are out of their comfort zone and therefore will be on high alert.

That coyote that I posted about a month ago on this forum was a classic example. She came roaring in like she owned the place and had just called to order a pizza and was expecting that the knock on the door was the delivery guy. No hesitation whatsoever and she came across the wind so she had made no effort to get downwind and assess the situation first, she was that confident that lunch had just been delivered to her front door.

Kid, a couple of other points:

– Camo: Personally, I wear snow camo when there’s snow, but only on my upper body. I wear a coverup jacket in snow camo and a white hat with camo facemask. IMO, the best camo is stillness and quiet, with absolutely minimal movement.

– Snowshoes – per my weekend report, as a practical matter I think this year I’ll be using them regardless of the drawbacks. As my hunting partner pointed out, they do make noise, but what I was doing is wearing them to within about 100 yards of where I intend to call and then taking them off and walking the last piece without them.

I can’t think of any other way. You have to get to where the coyotes are, so the choice this year is either plan to reduce the number of stands you make by a vast % or wear snowshoes.

– Personally, I see hunting from deer stands as a mixed bag. While you can see more, you also have the potential for you scent to drift farther and you can be more visible sitting up there.

As with most things in life, there’s only so much you can do “in theory”. Getting out there and trying things is the only way to find out what works. The most critical factors, IMO are:

1. Hunt where the coyotes are.
2. Get into their comfort zone quietly and before calling.
3. Sound, stealth, and scent control.
4. Calling in a realistic manner.

As you’ll no doubt see, most of these items are difficult to have full control over in a hunting situation. For example, it’s almost impossible to KNOW that you are hunting an area where coyotes currently are. You have to do the best you can do in any situation.

Grouse

Well stated grouse! As I caution so many clients. Use what you learned from hunting whitetail and understand your hunting a predator that is 10X more smarter! It’s not easy. If it were, all the guys from out west would come here.
In colorado,wyoming, Kansas and Nebraska combined, we called dogs in every day and killed over 20. Came home and I only have 2 this month in wi.

Oak ridges? Awesome! I have a couple of those bordering the northern portion of my area.

Thanks again for the input guys and I’ll be bugging you all winter long as I continue to put this puzzle together.

My family Christmas gathering is this weekend so once I’m past this weekend, I’ll be up there chasing as much as I can.

I’ll take some pictures of the area so I can show you what I’m doing with what I have and maybe you guys might be able to make some suggestions if my stand placements aren’t producing.

I don’t own any snow shoes so I’ll run out and get some of those, as well as locate some of that nose jammer stuff.

Randy and Grouse, thanks again for all your detailed input! I do believe this will help in getting these swamp dogs figured out!

Here’s to hoping I get to post some pictures this winter!