Poverty in baseball

Here is a story in the Athletic this morning. Had for me to feel sorry for these kids, many in their early 20’s making the Minimum. If anybody here in your early 20’s are knocking down $600K let me know your secrete. BTW, I don’t care how much the owners are making or losing.

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If Major League Baseball’s next collective bargaining agreement isn’t in place by Feb. 28, some games in the 2022 regular season will be canceled, a league spokesperson said Wednesday night. Player pay would not be recouped for the canceled games, nor would those games be rescheduled, the spokesperson said.

Last week, MLB marked the 28th as a target for a deal to be done in order to start the regular season on time. Players were previously skeptical that date was a hard deadline, though. Opening Day is scheduled for March 31.

“A deadline is a deadline. Missed games are missed games. Salary will not be paid for those games,” the spokesperson said in a statement.

In bargaining sessions with the Players Association earlier Wednesday, MLB offered the players a $10,000 bump in the minimum salary, upping its starting point from $630,000 to $640,000, a person with knowledge of the negotiations told The Athletic. The salary would grow every year from there by $10,000.

Under MLB’s proposal, players making the league minimum would make:

2022: $640,000

2023: $650,000

2024: $660,000

2025: $670,000

2026: $680,000

The MLBPA a day earlier again proposed a minimum salary that began at $775,000 for 2022. From there, it would escalate every year by $30,000. Prior to Tuesday, the union had proposed it growing $25,000 per year.

MLBPA minimum salary proposal:

2022: $775,000

2023: $805,000

2024: $835,000

2025: $865,000

2026: $895,000

The league on Wednesday also withdrew an alternative proposal it had made for minimum salary, one that would offer tiered salaries based on how many years of service time a player had. Under that proposal, teams could not pay players more than the minimum, as they can now. In the remaining proposals, teams can pay players above the minimum, if they so choose.

The first meeting between MLB and the players lasted about one hour, 40 minutes. The sides caucused for about 2 hours, 20 minutes before a smaller-group meeting between the sides began.

Entering the smaller-group meeting, MLB’s only updated proposal to the players on Wednesday was its offer on minimum salary, a source said.

IMO the MLPA is taking the bigger picture into account. By the time these “early 20s” players get on the MLB pay scale, they have been scraping by on minor league pay or no pay for years to get that far. And of course, the few that actually make it to collect this paycheck are very few compared to all those that wash out. Even then, their career at that pay could be a couple of years if they’re lucky.

Why is the income of MLB or the owners not relevant to this? Taxpayer subsidized billionaires having to shell out a few extra million per team to meet the new pay scale. What a tragedy that would be. Let me get my tissues.

Millions of kids deliver Domino’s pizza, very few buy franchises. Why is Dominos exempt from paying drivers $750 per hour?

I guess that’s why you don’t count on making a paycheck playing a game. If you make it big, well good for you. If not, that was the wrong decision

I knew I should have stayed in front of the ball to knock it down.

Heading to Arizona Monday for a week’s vacation. Had tickets to 5 different Spring training games. That is out the window obviously. Have lost a lot of interest in baseball in recent years. I am a Cubs fan and back in the day I could see every Cubs game on the same station, WGN. Now living in Northern Wisconsin it is more difficult than solving a Rubik’s cube to watch a Cub’s game.

1st question Are the Brewer’s playing a game on tv? If so the Cubs will be blacked out as I am in the Brewer’s territory.
2nd question If the Cubs are on and not blacked out which channel? ESPN, Fox, FS1, TBS, MLB Network, MLB Network Strike Zone, MLB Extra Innings. (A number of these channels are special packages and expensive.)Don’t forget you buy the MLB package and the Brewer’s are on tv all other MLB games are blacked out.

Just easier to go fishing…..

Only poverty in baseball is in the minors. I assume Dutch’s question about owner’s losing money was sarcasm.

The MLB is on life support in the United States. Viewership is down annually for the last 2 decades along with in-person attendance. Stadiums are increasingly empty. The pinnacle of their season is during football with College Football and the NFL regular season games squashing the MLB playoffs. This lockout is just one of many underlying issues that the league will have to handle to stop the skid. The lengthy games that can go a long time without notable action, dozens of meaningless games for over half the league once the midway point of the season is reached, payroll discrepancies growing, inflated ticket prices, etc. are all collectively taking their toll. My wife played college softball, I played baseball through high school then amateur stuff for a while, we support our local HS teams, volunteer in the community youth baseball programs, yet neither my wife or I would walk across the street for an MLB experience anymore. It’s nothing more than noise on the radio in the shed or boat.

On a side note, the last Twins game I was at couldn’t have had 5,000 people there. A foul ball was hit into the lower level on the 1B side and I’m not sure anyone even went to pick it up. It rattled around for a few seconds plinking off empty seats and nobody was close enough to waste the energy making a move on it.

I paid way more for a hot dog and a couple beers than I did to get into the last Twins game I went to.

When I looked around, there was a lot more people socializing, drinking beer, and looking at their phones than there were actually watching the game.

Makes a guy wonder why anyone would go in the first place. Not to mention its 3+ hours of your life you will never get back.

Baseballs biggest problem is it thinks it has to be football.

They want to kill the history of the game and all the statistics of over 100 years. They want a wham bam game of action every second to appeal to the younger generation. They are killing the game. Football has just as much downtime if you look at it. Nobody cares that football games are all over 3 1/2 hours. Nobody cares that football games have a review or flag on nearly every series.

I’m a baseball purist. Historical numbers matter to me. 162 game seasons matter to me. Umpires calls, good or bad matter to me. Teams winning games matters to me. What doesn’t matter to me is little Johnny not liking baseball because his dad couldn’t find the time to sign him up for little league or take him to games. What doesn’t matter to me is being able to sit in the seats and bet on each play or pitch.

Oh well, i’ll sit on my porch and listen to the radio (google it to find out what they are) and in my minds eye visualize a game I grew up loving and enjoying.

As far as the topic goes…Bearcat hit it. Nobody forces kids to play baseball. They (minor leaguers) need to earn a minimum wage like everybody else. If thats not enough they can go deliver pizza.

gimruis wrote:

I paid way more for a hot dog and a couple beers than I did to get into the last Twins game I went to.

When I looked around, there was a lot more people socializing, drinking beer, and looking at their phones than there were actually watching the game.

Makes a guy wonder why anyone would go in the first place. Not to mention its 3+ hours of your life you will never get back.

I take the kids for something to do on a nice afternoon. Especially when it’s 5 dollar ticket day. If it’s ever more them 5 bucks it’s a huge waste of money. The games couldn’t be any more boring. The stadium is beautiful. I work on it all the time. But the area surrounding is very sketchy at best. I have endless pictures of cutting on that stadium. So I go show the kids what dad does, even though they don’t have a care

Some would argue taking a young kid fishing is a waste of time. You basically are hoping it pays off in the future and the kid enjoys the outdoors like we do.

And baseball is different how?

I actually played baseball when I was younger. I was good at it and I enjoyed it. Some of the best memories I have in youth sports in fact. When I was done with little league, I was an umpire for 10 years for the same league I played in. It was good money and I was rated as one of the top umpires by the coaches.

Its not a very friendly spectator sport though. I find it to be on par with Nascar and golf. Its just boring and it goes on for way too long, both individual games and the season as a whole.

Just my personal opinion of it, of course, but based on declining ratings and attendance and an upcoming lockout, maybe there are a fair number of people out there that share this opinion.

Target Field is a nice stadium. Won’t deny that.

Everything has it’s ebbs and flows, so to say baseball is on life support is fairly ridiculous. There is a ton of money flowing no matter what their rich cheap a$$ owners want you to think.

Poor pohlads, they’re gonna break even in 2017, only worth 910million, doesn’t matter in 2021 worth 1.325 billion estimated.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2016/12/06/pohlad-says-twins-will-be-lucky-to-break-even-in.html

gimruis wrote:

Its not a very friendly spectator sport though.

Baseball is fine as a spectator sport and there’s plenty of evidence for that (College, Amateur and HS attendance). MLB baseball is a different extremely boring beast that is a terrible product. Baseball has cut off it’s nose to spite it’s face, in favor of analytics, home runs, strikeouts and thinking growing TV contracts and Franchise values meant it was a healthy game. My generation 40 year olds (+/- 10 years) are the last of the late 90’s MLB resurgence fan base, and even all the die hard baseball fans I know in that group are pretty much done with MLB. It’d be one thing to lose a 10 year demographic, but you are also losing all of our kids as well. MLB is dead imo, they just don’t know it yet.

We love going to baseball games. Hanging out with my family, cooking burgers and playing catch in the AmFam parking lot, cracking a beer, and cheering for some strike-outs and homeruns? There’s a hell of a lot worse ways to spend a Sunday afternoon…

The economics of the sport are interesting, and due to tv/streaming deals there’s actually no real need for them to start the season “on time” so any talk of deadlines is just media points. If you want some deep insight, the David Samson podcast is eye-opening. Former President of the Expos and Marlins, and someone who’s taken an absolutely cut-throat approach to the business of baseball.
https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/nothing-personal-with-david-samson/

Dutchboy wrote:

Millions of kids deliver Domino’s pizza, very few buy franchises. Why is Dominos exempt from paying drivers $750 per hour?

No comparison between the two. Supply and demand. There aren’t “millions of kids” who can play at the level to make it to the major leagues.

Not thinking you’re going to whip up a lot of support for the billionaire owners. Have you been hired as the PR frontman for the Pohlad Pocket Protector Company?

BigWerm wrote:

MLB baseball is a different extremely boring beast that is a terrible product. Baseball has cut off it’s nose to spite it’s face, in favor of analytics, home runs, strikeouts and thinking growing TV contracts and Franchise values meant it was a healthy game.

Totally agree, but until attendance dips to the point where advertising revenues, licensed merch sales, and TV rights revenue decline significantly, the owners don’t care.

Baseball needs a pitch clock just like nba has a shot clock.
Move the game along.
I will never feel bad for “athletes” makes hundreds of thousands nor millions…
When athletes and celebs are paid to be role models then I may give a r@ts a$$ about anything any of them do.

mark-bruzek wrote:

Baseball needs a pitch clock…

That’s what everybody’s been saying for about the past 10 years.

BigWerm wrote:

Baseball is fine as a spectator sport and there’s plenty of evidence for that (College, Amateur and HS attendance). MLB baseball is a different extremely boring beast that is a terrible product. Baseball has cut off it’s nose to spite it’s face, in favor of analytics, home runs, strikeouts and thinking growing TV contracts and Franchise values meant it was a healthy game. My generation 40 year olds (+/- 10 years) are the last of the late 90’s MLB resurgence fan base, and even all the die hard baseball fans I know in that group are pretty much done with MLB. It’d be one thing to lose a 10 year demographic, but you are also losing all of our kids as well. MLB is dead imo, they just don’t know it yet.

Interesting, I will never forget 50 years ago I worked in a service station and I asked the owner/boss if he like Baseball. He said….Davey, I’d rather watch tomatoes ripen!

My generation 40 year olds (+/- 10 years) are the last of the late 90’s MLB resurgence fan base, and even all the die hard baseball fans I know in that group are pretty much done with MLB. It’d be one thing to lose a 10 year demographic, but you are also losing all of our kids as well. MLB is dead imo, they just don’t know it yet.

people who don’t like baseball are always announcing it’s death.

From 1990-1999 baseball attendance increased from 50M to 70M per year.
(strike was late 1994 with no World Series)

From 2000-2008 baseball attendance increased from 70M to 78M per year.
(steroid era)

From 2009-2017 baseball attendance was steady at around 73M per year.

From 2018-2019 baseball attendance decreased from 73M to 68M per year.

It will be interesting to see how attendance goes this…first season after the biggest effects of the pandemic, but also dealing with a delayed start due to contract negotiations.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

people who don’t like baseball are always announcing it’s death.

I love baseball, just not the Pohlad’s or the current MLB product. One of those I’m open to changing my mind on . It will be interesting to see what the attendance and TV numbers are for MLB this summer, 2020 and 2021 aren’t very good comparisons, but they are done if they continue with 7-10% or more declines.

http://www.mobile.twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1497226151273578497?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497226151273578497%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fiframely.barstoolsports.com%2F14GW6A9%3F_showcaption%3Dtrue

Those poor owners…

I love the game, but hate the business. If you want to corrupt a sport, any sport, start a professional league. MLB was at the vanguard of runaway athlete salaries with the Curt Flood decision. The NBA, NHL, and NFL all followed suit. Then the owners extort billions from local taxpayers with the threat to relocate their teams. ENOUGH! I spent a significant amount of my time (maybe too much-45yrs) chasing balls and pucks until health (read “injuries”) took me of the fields/rinks. But time spent playing is like time spent fishing…it doesn’t count against you. I played for the love of the game, and still would were I able. The athletes and owners can go pound sand. No tears from me! Money has absolutely corrupted all pro sports. Even Wrasslin’ has more credibility than the major sports, because they don’t pretend that things aren’t scripted.

I understand this is MLB, not minors, but there are not very many 20 year olds in the MLB.

Found this – “An individual can’t meet basic needs earning less than $26,225 a year anywhere in the United States, according to MIT’s Living Wage Calculator. In 2021, most minor leaguers will make between $8,000 and $14,000 from April to October, according to the uniform player contract. The U.S. federal poverty guideline for one person in most states is $12,880 in annual income.”

And I can back that up. My best friend in high school was the best player I ever knew in person, still holds records for the MN Gophers. He was drafted, but it never turned into a contract. I went with him twice for open tryouts for the Twins, for me it just a fantastic time, and some of my skills were noticed. For him, it was serious, and his skills were seriously considered, but still was not signed. After several years, he finally got a minor league contract with the Reds. 3 year later, he quit, and I remember talking to him about it soon there after. He was doing great, they liked him a lot, and there was a lot of talk about promotion. But he was broke, stone cold broke.

I get it, its a game, it was his choice, but with what the owners earn, I have no pity on them, and MLB uses and abuses the masses in the minors. The MLB agreement should include all levels of the minor leagues.

Does anyone know what the actual take-home pay is with the league minimum?

I know the NHL players were raked over the coals the last few years with escrow meaning that players at the league minimum were taking home far less than half of their stated salary. Not sure if this is a thing in the MLB though.

Doesn’t seem worth it considering that if you’re making the league minimum, it’s highly unlikely you’ll being playing in the bigs past 30 anyway.

Per Baseball Almanac, TV World Series ratings over the years, in average viewers per game:

1991: 35.7 million
2001: 24.5 million
2011: 16.5 million
2021: 12.3 million (including streaming)

Corresponding Super Bowl numbers in average viewers in Super Bowls in the 1991, 2001, 2011 and 2021 seasons: 79.6 million, 86.8 million, 111.4 million, and 110.4 million (including streaming).

^Baseball’s economics are the most unique of any professional sport. It’s crazy how a sport can stagnate or even regress in viewership but grow in net worth.

If the TV deals expire and some of the major purchasers just walk away in the coming decades, things could really snowball quickly for the MLB.

I gave up all pro sports except hockey over 20 years ago. Last year I found I was going to have to expand my satellite package, from the 2-year contract I’m still paying that dropped it 2 months into that contract. Only caught a couple games. More college and high school sports, and I’m enjoying it. Sports are big stuff to a lot of people still. Going to Alabama fishing next week. Googled Alabama. The first 15 or 20 suggestions had to do with Crimson Tide.

BigWerm wrote:

Per Baseball Almanac, TV World Series ratings over the years, in average viewers per game:

1991: 35.7 million
2001: 24.5 million
2011: 16.5 million
2021: 12.3 million (including streaming)

Corresponding Super Bowl numbers in average viewers in Super Bowls in the 1991, 2001, 2011 and 2021 seasons: 79.6 million, 86.8 million, 111.4 million, and 110.4 million (including streaming).

Well, I suppose if I could get 12.3 million people to watch me do my job, I’d probably get paid more too!

The Super Bowl is an anomaly. Absolute beast because it brings in viewers who don’t even normally watch football. ALL non-football television show ratings are trending down compared to previous decades because of media fragmentation. There used to be 3 channels, and when 1 of them was showing the World Series a lot of people watched, even ones who weren’t baseball fans. You couldn’t watch the Brewers or Twins pretty much ever. At all. Maybe the Cubs and Yankees if you were an early cable adopter. Seinfeld averaged 25 million viewers; Yellowstone gets half that today because now there’s a bazillion entertainment options on your screen, and a lot of folks choose The Mandalorian instead. Almost any show would kill to get 12 million viewers anymore. So, I’d offer that baseball viewing isn’t dead, it’s just not the only game in town.

The World Series ratings beat ALL non-NFL programming for the fall of 2021. It’s been no worse than the #12 prime time show every year for the past 20 years. Look at Sinclair (Bally’s) and their efforts to expand on non-football sports (baseball/basketball/hockey) through their RSN channels and eventual streaming platform. As gambling becomes permitted in more and more states, they are developing an integrated platform to stream live games and provide real-time betting. They’re paying – some would say over-paying – now because they know it’s valuable and will become even more valuable with betting. And as long as it’s valuable, owners and players will profit nicely.