Possible Cheating at Brainerd Jaycees Ice Fishing Extravaganza

http://www.startribune.com/brainerd-jaycees-investigate-possible-cheating-at-ice-fishing-tournament/472548253/

Has anyone heard any more details about possible cheating at the Brainerd Ice Fishing Extravaganza?

I doubt a guy weighing a 3.10 pound northern is cheating with the intent on winning the contest. Just don’t make sense. A 3 pound pike could get knocked out so easily, why even risk it.

With many years of being involved with fishing in and running fishing contests, I can’t tell you how many times I have sat there and listened to people with cheating accusations. Lets just say most are not very good at fishing. Most with no business being in the tourney in the first place.

-J.

Polygraph will be the answer. Looks like they would be innocent if they are so willing to take it.

The headline is designed to get attention. I didn’t get anything from the article other then the winners will take a poly graph test. Not the first time, not the last it’s been done.

If I was those people I would be pretty tweaked to be targeted like that if I am innocent.

A 3 lbs pike at the brainerd contest will easily win a prize every year. With the random placement of prizes, it could be a truck, 4 wheeler, fish house, or 100 bucks.

Jon Jordan wrote:

I doubt a guy weighing a 3.10 pound northern is cheating with the intent on winning the contest. Just don’t make sense. A 3 pound pike could get knocked out so easily, why even risk it.

-J.

Also not that easy to keep a fish alive, get through random checking, and someone not see you catch it with the given circumstances.

I like the concept of a lie detector test, but oppose the accuracy. Not absolute in the results. I think they have that option as additional step as a deterrent in cheating.

I seen this on FB but tried to find this today. Before this story broke someone posted up the the fish these guys caught every year for 8 years or so. Same sized pike every year.

The whole family did well….maybe too well in some peoples eyes.

Maybe they cheated maybe they didn’t but a lie detector won’t prove it either way.

Maybe they need to revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating.

That’s too bad too be accused with no proff yet. You think names would be withheld until investigation is finished?

Maybe they have it figured out and they are that good? I bet if they went back previous years and seen who won prizes over those years multiple names would come up that have won prizes in different years. I hope it’s not a case of cheating.

We have all our stuff gone through when we come through a checkpoint. With no shacks and all the people that would be around to witness a person pulling the fish up and having to fight it I find it tough too believe.

Pailofperch wrote:

A 3 lbs <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>pike at the brainerd contest will easily win a prize every year. With the random placement of prizes, it could be a truck, 4 wheeler, fish house, or 100 bucks.

I believe you are correct…a random perch could win you a new auger.

pool2fool wrote:

Maybe they cheated maybe they didn’t but a lie detector won’t prove it either way.

Maybe they need to revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating.

No, perhaps a lie detector would…or would not? Contest rules though state that refusal to submit to one, they automatically forfeit any prize they woulda/coulda claimed.

As far as “revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating”, this only the second time in 28 years this has been called into question.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Pailofperch wrote:</div>
A 3 lbs <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>pike at the brainerd contest will easily win a prize every year. With the random placement of prizes, it could be a truck, 4 wheeler, fish house, or 100 bucks.

I believe you are correct…a random perch could win you a new auger.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pool2fool wrote:</div>
Maybe they cheated maybe they didn’t but a lie detector won’t prove it either way.

Maybe they need to revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating.

No, perhaps a lie detector would…or would not? Contest rules though state that refusal to submit to one, they automatically forfeit any prize they woulda/coulda claimed.

As far as “revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating”, this only the second time in 28 years this has been called into question.

If lie detectors “proved” anything they would be used in court. There’s no maybe, they are an inconclusive device.

I was referring to carvers post which suggested these guys have been gaming the system for 8 consecutive years. Sounds like hearsay but also sounds like potentially feeble system.

Well last year our group of 8 won 4 prizes, this year we won 5 prizes. Same group of guys. This was our 5th year I believe. The first 3 years there were only 4 of us. We invited 4 more into our group last year.

All our fish were close to the same weight as last year’s fish. Within 10th’s of a pound. I hope in 6 more years of doing good we don’t fall under the cheaters category? We did our homework and have some things figured out.

Like I said before, I hope they didn’t cheat. That hurts the cause for a very well ran contest and what it’s purpose is.

I find it very fishy to catch 2 pike in over 50 feet of water. And both were caught by relatives. Very fishy so I can see the cause for foul play.

10000 people on the ice scaring fish around and a couple hammer handles schooled up and suspended isnt all that fishy imo.

Do hope they figure it out one way or another.

pool2fool wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Pailofperch wrote:</div>
A 3 lbs <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>pike at the brainerd contest will easily win a prize every year. With the random placement of prizes, it could be a truck, 4 wheeler, fish house, or 100 bucks.

I believe you are correct…a random perch could win you a new auger.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pool2fool wrote:</div>
Maybe they cheated maybe they didn’t but a lie detector won’t prove it either way.

Maybe they need to revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating.

No, perhaps a lie detector would…or would not? Contest rules though state that refusal to submit to one, they automatically forfeit any prize they woulda/coulda claimed.

As far as “revisit the format of the tournament to more strongly deter cheating”, this only the second time in 28 years this has been called into question.

If lie detectors “proved” anything they would be used in court. There’s no maybe, they are an inconclusive device.

I was referring to carvers post which suggested these guys have been gaming the system for 8 consecutive years. Sounds like hearsay but also sounds like potentially feeble system.

Since when are polygraph tests not admissible in court?????…

TripleA wrote:

Since when are polygraph tests not admissible in court?????…

To clarify, they are at times admissible in some states in some situations. There are many states that don’t allow them period, others that don’t allow them unless agreed to by both parties, and they’re not allowed at all in military court to my knowledge.

It’s an inconsistent and often inconclusive instrument. If admitted and used as evidence they often end up being attacked during appeals.

I think the article is a sham. Why make a statement like this and not offer some sort of proof and at least a hint as to why the issue was brought up. But then it is a fishing contest where cash prizes are offered and we all should know what cash prizes can do to the integrity of a simple contest….like everyone involved is honest.

The contest committee supposedly is working to make changes that will insure that things are kept honest. I’d suggest that no prizes per se are offered but rather sponsors commit X number of dollars towards a specific “place” that the anglers fish for and those who “win” a place are allowed to make a donation to the charity of their choice for that place’s dollar amount.

It does seem a little fishy, but I hope they did not cheat. We will have to wait and see.

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I have to say I don’t agree with releasing the names of the anglers or any information about there being an investigation. In the social media era, this is very close to libel IMO and no doubt the anglers named are lawyering up right now to sue.

Since this whole thing is based only on some vague suspicion that something isn’t right, why was it necessary to name the anglers at all? Surely an investigation could have been conducted without turning this into a 3 ring media circus.

Grouse

I think it’s worth investigating considering their history of winning or placing top 5 in multiple contests. I’ve seen guys cheat to win $250 at local charity derbies. Hopefully they are just really good/lucky fishermen and no harm is done.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

I have to say I don’t agree with releasing the names of the anglers or any information about there being an investigation. In the social media era, this is very close to libel IMO and no doubt the anglers named are lawyering up right now to sue.

Grouse

100% agree. Today’s instant needs sets up nearly everyone to be publicly tried in social media without the facts. Over-reactions based merely on speculation. By the time its actually investigated and conclusive evidence is presented, its already old news. For the most part, damage is already done. People who want to judge on speculation will already form their opinion and will never change their minds. These individuals will be regarded as cheaters by some – not all and they will have that reputation branded upon them.
I personally would like to see some big $$$$ law suites come out of these situations when innocent people are accused and they are drug through the mud before ALL the evidence is shown. A clear message needs to be sent that we are a Nation of laws to protect the innocent and we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. If/when proven guilty, then let them suffer the consequences.

There is a possibility of cheating since there are many large prizes. That said I have seen people cheat to win a trophy at a Pinewood Derby Cub Scout race.

Didn’t some guy sneak a pike in his pants way back when and won a truck? Pretty sure it was this same contest. I would think you could catch a few pike day before and tie them under the ice, then have a buddy sneak them in? Never been there but with that many people, it is almost impossible to keep an eye on everyone.

The only cheating I saw was a group taking 4 holes per 1 ticket bought. But they said in the rules they are allowed to do this:???: so no one can fish next to you. Can someone add a link to where it says you can do this in the rules?

Tuma wrote:

The only cheating I saw was a group taking 4 holes per 1 ticket bought. But they said in the rules they are allowed to do this:???: so no one can fish next to you. Can someone add a link to where it says you can do this in the rules?

Official Rules

6. Each contestant will be allowed to fish one pole per hole, per ticket, two holes maximum. You may register as many fish as you want, but only the heaviest fish per contestant will qualify for a contest prize.

11. Contestants may reserve no more than four holes.

Regarding the release of names….

32. All contestants and other spectators hereby consent to the use of any names, photographs or likenesses of themselves to be used in the promotion of our contest, including but not limited to print, radio, television or any other media.

I don’t quite understand what the issue a few of you have regarding them releasing the names since every registered fish has a name tied to it and it’s posted online and on the board at the tournament. I suppose I can understand the poor feelings about the wide publicity that they’re conducting an investigation, but locally there have been rumors going around about possible cheating since the tournament ended and perhaps these news stories are being put out to end the rumors and scuttlebutt.

Personally, I think the investigation is warranted. After looking at past results going back to 2012, via Fishing Derby Online, the name Lyogky from Ohio has shown up numerous times, and almost always with northern pike. Since 2012 there have only been 33 northern pike registered in the top 150. In 5 of the last 7 years a Lyogky from Ohio has registered a pike, and this year there were 2 of them (only 1 other pike was registered). So 6 out of 33, or 18% of the northern pike registered since 2012 have come from one of them. This year they also caught the largest perch registered since 2012. If you figure that there are approximately 10,000 people fishing each year, what are the odds?

http://www.fishingderbyonline.com/DerbySearch

blank wrote:

Regarding the release of names….
32. All contestants and other spectators hereby consent to the use of any names, photographs or likenesses of themselves to be used in the promotion of our contest, including but not limited to print, radio, television or any other media.

The key word is “promotion”. These names were not released to promote the contest, they were released in conjunction with the fact that there was an ongoing investigation.

There was absolutely no reason to release names. I’m not arguing for or against whether or not the investigation was or was not merited. I’m simply saying that in the web and social media era, simply naming somebody is a stain on their reputation that they cannot remove even if the allegations are proved to be without merit. Understandably, many people are not going to take this lying down.

There was no reason to talk or release names at this point in the investigation. That was a poor decision by the organizers. I think they’d better learn to have better information control or they’re going to expose themselves and the organization to some big money lawsuits.

Grouse

When charges are filed, release the names. Until then it just hurts a persons reputation and the tourney IMHO.

Blank, its the separation of an investigation and promotion

to be used in the promotion of our contest

Announcing an investigation is NOT a promotion

No one said there isn’t circumstances that warrant an investigation. However, do the investigation, gain the needed evidence (if there is any), then proceed to take appropriate action. Announcing an investigation and releasing the names before there is proof is ass backwards IMHO.

Just looking at this a bit differently, as if this was myself and some of my circumstances.
I catch a heck of a lot of walleyes on the river. I assume much more than average. I’m a manufacture rep plus a guide and have a responsibility to maintain a high level of credibility. So, you see that I am posting a crap load of pics and make the accusation that I am breaking the law – Lets say fishing too many lines at once and over harvesting. Yep, looks suspicious that I was out 5 days in a row and caught about 30 to 40 walleyes per day, when others were having poor success.
Not unreasonable to think that maybe I’m doing illegal. So then becomes the question, do you plaster it in the social /mainstream media that I’m breaking the law, or ask a CO to take a look? When I purchase my Patrons License and Guide license, I know I may be looked at by a CO to make sure I (and my clients) are following the law. I get it and have no problem with it. But to make the accusation publicly without proof and nothing more than “possible cause” is total BS. So in case, you elect to tell a CO. CO meets me and I’m investigated for possible violations. If found to be true, I’m prosecuted per the law, and then ridiculed publicly. However, if the CO finds that I conducted no illegal activity, I was still investigated, your concern was addressed by law enforcement, and I suffer no public humility based on the accusation.

Our family was involved with the prize committee of Salmon-a-rama in Racine, WI for many years. It was unreal the amount of accusations of cheating that were brought to Board Members. In every case I am personally aware of, the accusation was deemed credible or not and them followed up upon. Never was a press release issued to say someone was accused of cheating and they were being investigated. It wasn’t until enough proof was gathered and a solid case made before SAR said anything. Unfortunately, individual people ran off to the press, but that again illustrates the issue. Make the investigation happen prior to a public notification.

blank wrote:

11. Contestants may reserve no more than four holes.

The word reserve implies to me that someone is coming to use that hole. So once the event started and all their people were fishing their holes. They should have removed the steaks from the other holes.