Stirring the Pot

Darn straight! On most sites guys can’t discuss “Glass VS. Aluminum” without insulting IQ and heritage. And this topic lends itself to a heated debate.

Of course it’s easy to see the other side of the argument – I used to be on it! Five years ago, I was definitely in the camp of “Not everyone should be allowed to carry a gun.”

All it took to change my mind was a call down to the sherriff’s office to apply. On the phone, when asking how to initiate the process, the secretary/clerk/whoever told me that he wouldn’t approve “personal protection” as reason enough and I shouldn’t even bother.

When I looked to see what the criteria were for getting a permit (since “personal protection” is the only valid reason). I found there were none. That is rule by executive fiat and is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Gianni, you are right on. I was pretty surprised at the blind acceptance some of the FTR crew has shown for the gun control crowd’s misinformation. I started to pull stuff together but I don’t think I can do much to improve on your post.

Anybody remember when criminals in Florida were targeting tourists in rental cars from the airport? That’s was shortly after Florida legalized “CCW”. The criminals no longer knew who was armed and who wasn’t. Their “jobs” had just become too dangerous. But the chances of anybody coming through the airport being armed was almost none.

How about Columbine? Sept. 11? There are a ton more.

You guys are right, you don’t shoot someone for stealing your tackle box or CD player. I do remember posts here where guys were itching to run into the low-lifes that broke into their vehicles at the landings. O.K., you happen to catch these guys, you take off at a dead run ready to kick some lawbreaking booty, you grab the guy and throw him against the truck and threaten him a little. Now he pulls a knife, or his buddy steps out from behind the truck with a gun, “OH $@it”. A wise man once said, “The best thing to bring to a knife fight is a gun, and the best way to win a gun fight is to not be there.” Well, we can’t always choose to not be there.

I’m gonna bet 90% of you guys own a gun. Tonight about 8:30 when you’re kicked back back on the couch with mamma, watching some TV, with Jr. playing with his toy truck and boat on the floor, three guys kick in your door and storm in. Can you get to any of ’em? Fast? Don’t say you’d tell ’em to take anything they want. They want you money, your guns, and your wife, you’ve seen their faces, they aren’t going to jail……

No, you may have never been in the above situations, but do you want to wait and hope there’s a second time to be prepared. Permit holders aren’t out looking for crimes to stop. Most that I’ve talked to feel that they are much cooler headed than ever before for the simple reason they don’t want to do something stupid over something minor and lose their permit. Which would be unfortunate if and when something major ever came along. As for the “wild west”, watch the history channel guys, most of the wild west was invented in Hollywood.

Another quote: “An armed society is a polite society.”

Wow talk about a hot subject!

First off, I have spent several years in a local pistol club learning how to handle and shoot a variety of hand guns. I have studied this subject in past years and have taught all my family members how to safely use pistols. I currently own a target grade .22 automatic and .357 revolver ready to be quickly loaded with very deadly ammunition. The reason for the deadly ammunition is that if you ever have someone intent on killing you or a family member, you need to stop them as quickly as possible – a wounded perpetrator with a 9mm automatic could easily kill every member of your family in a matter of seconds. I firmly believe a person should have the right to protect their family.

I do think concealed weapons should be allowed in certain circumstances. In the typical small towns where most of us live, we don’t have much of a reason to carry a weapon. But in big city areas with high crime rates, things take on an entirely different perspective. Have you ever took the wrong turn in a big city and ended up in the slums with people pounding on the hood of your car and smashing your windows just because you didn’t belong there? Do you know of a woman who has to walk alone through a dangerous area at night? Have you ever been camping and had strangers threaten your life? There are countless situations where just having a gun would at least give you the peace of mind that you could protect yourself if necessary.

On the other hand I do not want to be anywhere near someone with a gun who is not capable of good judgement or simply can not properly handle it. These kind of people really scare me!

I am currently leaning toward the freedom to carry a concealed weapon but it depends on the situation and the people involved. I just don’t know how to easily keep guns away from unstable people.

Dave Gulczinski

I’ll share….this might be a bit too “SOUTH-WESTERN” for some of you to imagine.

I was raised all over Texas fishing and hunting my arse off….My dad built bridges. We lived everywhere… I shot snakes for fun, actually on a daily basis!

As a young adult, I never went fishing without a loaded gun in my boat. Snakes being the big reason( I have shot over 100 snakes in a day), but too because there was the chance to meet someone on the lake or river that had no brains… and had lots of shells! I can not count the times I have had to fire in the general direction of some person shooting in my direction… I just hate the sound of bullets wwwwwhizzing over my head! Not shooting to hit them of course, but to let them know I mean biz… and not to be shooting in my direction! Down in Texas where I lived and when I grew up, darn few out there did not have a gun with them and many of them would be shooting at anything and everything that moved (or stood still). Turtles and Gar were standard target practice.

Once instance, while I was running my “limb lines” on the Little Elm branch of the Trinity River. I had to point my shotgun at a couple of guys and tell tham how the corn grew…

to stop running my lines. I had spent several days runs with no catfish and with wound up lines (that meant fish had been removed). I had gone out abour 4:00am to find out why… and caught these two running my lines. I can not imagine how things would have gone if I had not had my 12 guage Browning Auto on them as they rounded the bend. I explained that I had better not ever see them again on this part of the river. Of course, they had their guns in the boat too… but not in their hands. This is called getting the drop on somebody. There were lots of “yes sir” and “no sir” exchanged…and I let them get a few yards round the s-bend before I cut loose five rounds over their heads just to have them get my point on the conversation. Their little put-put went in to a high-rev at that time…Never saw them again.

Gun in my boat? Took me two years in MN before I quit carring one. I have been here 20+ now and today have not felt it nessesary. Different breed of people here, but I gar-on-tee I would start back carring one again, if I ever feel I have the need.

Guns are relative to where you live, if you need them or not. You sure can not “grow one” when you need one and I figure it is best to plan ahead. I did get all the guns out of my home when I got a Little Brother from BB/BS and now have none in the house too, now that I have adopted kids of my own. But, I live in Owatonna, which is like living in a fairy tale city where I do not need guns, yet….Hawger

Well guys, I can’t seem to put this one down. I’m on the fence, for this very reason alone. I work part time at a sporting goods store. I see all the idiots who come in to buy guns, and I mean there are some real dandies…… I won’t hunt public land in MN for this very reason. Am I paranoid, maybe a little.

If it requires training/testing to get one of these permits I’m all for it. Unfortunately in SD, at least in my home town, all you do is go fill out a form with the sheriff. As a matter of fact, I’ve still got a concealed weapons permit for SD. This is a statewide license.

One question for the guys who use the reasoning of “what if someone came and kicked in your door and tried to rape and pillage your family and home” Don’t tell me your going to have your pistol close at hand when your sitting on the couch while junior is playing. If you live somewhere that requires you to have this type of protection, I’m sorry, you need to move in my opinion. Again, strictly an opinion, not directed at anyone specific.

I guess after reading everyones opinion and doing some thinking, I’m all for the law. I’d rather have the right, than not. Just hope they have a stringent policy for testing prior to awarding permits. I probably wouldn’t exercise my right to a concealed weapon, but at least I would have the choice if I wanted to.

Anyone looking for info on the MN issue should check out “www.mnccrn.org”

I must have leaped back a couple of light years here. Unless it has changed since 1993 when I last had a Federal Firearms License in Minnesota, (folks in Minnesota), have been able to go to the local sheriff and get a permit to carry a firearm already. Has That changed????? Now I realize that we are “now” talking about a concealed one, but that isn’t much of a change. If I understand the laws, (most very similar), that are already in place in around 40 States, the laws are very restictive as to where, when and why. No bars, etc. . Having come from a life some of you may never experience, I prefer to have a weapon, too, when the guy who is trying to shoot me decides it’s time. Like James and some of the other posters have already mentioned, there are lot’s of situations where I would never, pull the trigger. Here are some instances that I would in a second, with no regrets. #1 If someone is pointing a loaded gun at me that I believe is about to be fired., or if that person has already threatend someone else with it, and I think they intend to pull the trigger and kill them.

#2 If a person physically breaks into my house(or any building I am inhabiting, ie… our cottage, travel trailer, motel room, etc.when my family is present, and shows signs of endagering someone. (I realize I already have that right already, but there is a big difference between the unloaded deer rifle in the closet and a gun on or near my person, that I have already been trained on.

My guns, my boat , my house with no one in it , the garage, my closed place of business, my furniture, they can all be replaced and if I saw someone taking them with no gun visible, I could never justify even pulling a gun.

I was taught in my police training , a good officer never removes the gun from it’s holster unless he intends for the person on the other end, to be dead, when the gun is returned to the holster.

The part that amazes me about anybody outright dismissing this option, “the right to legally carry a concealed weapon” is that almost everyone allows without desenting the country we live in to house, develope, and use a huge and devastating array of weapons(including nuclear and biological), with the designated purpose of detering others from attacking our country, but would deny themselves the ability to deter or prevent some idiot out to kill them, a freind, or you family. Did we forget September 11th already. I think almost everyone here said shoot the sucker between the eyes on site. You might remember I was the guy who either here or on another walleye forum, said I myself would wait to see if we actually had proof that Ben Laden actually was involved, and not to allow ourselves to stereotype Muslims or Islam as all bad. I say that so you all know that I don’t take lightly the responsiblity for ending someone elses life. I also said that when we do find out who is guilty, that when they are brought to trial, the death penalty was the only just option if the people accused were found guilty. This deterence thing is not just a pipe dream. If I thought you might have a weapon, am I going to be as quick to attack you??? I have heard the statistics on all states that already allow their citizens to protect themselves with concealed weapons and violent crimes are down across the board since the law was passed. Is that proof that it is the only factor that had something to do with the decrease, ofcource not, but it is an interesting coincidence isn’t it. THIS POT NEeDED TO BE STIRRED) Lawrence

Mountain Man,

I have been trying to get a concealed carry permit every year since 1985. Denied every time. The ONLY way you can get a permit in Ramsey or Washington counties (MN) is to have a Full Time occupation that requires you to carry a handgun. IE Brinks Driver, Bank Security, Cop, ect. You probably got one in another county based on the fact that you were an arms dealer.

Nothing has changed. It has always been up to the Sheriff. Better known as Dr. No.

J.

Jon’s right, you are able to go to the Sheriff or Chief of Police, depending on where you live, and apply for a permit. But they alone decide if you get one or not. What the MPPA would change is that unless there is a valid reason to deny that application, they would have to issue the permit. Right now they can deny it if they feel that you simply don’t need one. Like I said earlier, in most of out-state MN few permits are denied but most people don’t apply because the the application states that you need to show an occupational or safety hazard. All it takes for things to change is to have a new sheriff voted in with a different opinion. A guy that’s had a permit for many years with no problems could be denied for no reason.

There’s soo much info here, it’s hard to soak it all in and say anything. Hawger, I live in a “fairy tail” community too………..but a couple of weeks back, you all might have seen a story on the news that ran for days………….the murders of O’Connell and Ellison at the O’Connell funeral home in Hudson, WI. I can pick up a ball and bat and hit that place from my front yard! Many of the camera views you good people saw came from my lawn! Deliberate, brutal crime, with no known motive or suspect.

Through it all, I still have no guns in the house. I do own some but I keep the rifles out to my parents. I’m not tempted to carry anything either. I can’t imagine carrying a weapon like I carry my leatherman multi-tool. I believe in the right to bear arms, I’m not anti-NRA, but I feel that submitting to carrying a gun would only obligate me to take on WAY too many precautions, and over what? I have a faith in a God that is in control. Sept. 11th wasn’t man conquering that control, nor evidence supporting HIm turning His back on anyone. All things that come to our lives are to serve purpose. With that in mind, I think it’s right for some of you out there to “be prepared”. But I also think no less of anyone stating their lack of interest in that preparation. If I’m made to be a victim, it’ll happen, with or without a gun. I live in the confidence that I won’t pose a threat to the public, or be threatened by the public. I will live free of fear, and if you guys remember 9/11, many of you said that to live in fear of terrorism is for them to win over us………..criminals are terrorists of a different scale, and I won’t give in. When is it right for me to carry a weapon? Hunting season is all that comes to mind……….or war. I don’t need a gun to “go down fighting”. When someone’s life is at stake, I don’t wait to see if someone is armed………..I’m going in! I can do that much quicker without a weapon to go fetch or that I remembered to carry on my person today. Even having to make the choice of when to carry,……………..is any moment or situation less threatening than another? 2 guys in a funeral home, doing their job……….think about it guys, if you want to be a hero, live free. Leave the weaponry for war, law enforcement protection, or hunting. To C&C is being afraid of not being ready for something unknown…………which is impossible. With or without C&C, there will be crime, death, accidents……….all that we have and know already. With or without training, can you still be a victim? What statistic or study will you be a part of then?

Neither side is right…………neither side is wrong. My absolute point is that I live in the land of freedom…………..our motto is “In God We Trust”. I choose to live freely within that declaration, and trusting both sides to be my fellow countrymen.

God Bless Us All.

If i was as good with the words as you are kid i’d have said somthing very similar to what you just put into words. The events from 9/11. and the kids getting shot in schools on and on and on. Remember….you’ve all herd this before… Guns don’t kill people…..People kill people……there is alot of passion in this group of tuff guy / outdoor people of this site.

I love it !!

ec

I remember hearing the big “metro” was a hard place to get a permit. I don’t believe the law ever allowed concealment. The last copy I read required the weapon to be in plain sight. But I may be wrong. The original draft of the law (carry) made it almost mandatory to extend such a permit unless the person did not meet the standards for buying-owning the gun, in the first place. I think that was the way it was passed, with as a loop hole something to the affect that the Sheriff in the county the permit was requested in had sole jurisdiction and it was at his or her sole discretion, whether to the criteria had been met. It has been a while, but ofcource without successful litigation, the sheriff doesn’t even have to reveal his or her justification. I would hope along with the strong requirements(restrictions) that have been placed in most of the new “concealed laws”, that once those requirenents are met and as long as they stay met , the issuing juridiction would have no choice, but to issue. After all anyone that doesn’t want the permit, isn’t forced to request one. Lawrence

Mountain Man,

That is exactly what the proposed legislation is about. If there is no valid reason to deny the request, the Sheriff “Must Isssue” the permit.

Right now it is totally up to the local Sheriff. Period.

J.

Minnesota’s permit is “a permit to carry a handgun”. It can be concealed or not. Some states require concealment and permits can be pulled for noncompliance.

drizz,

Thanks for that website. I was not aware it existed. I get all of my legislative alerts through the NRA.

I wanted to post is as a link so everyone could easily get to the site.

http://www.mnccrn.org

It is very easy to find who your State Senator and State Representative are and send them an e-mail. Follow the suggestions outlined on the site.

Last I checked we are very close to getting this passed. Like one vote may get it done.

J.

Jon J.

send that letter to your State Representative’s by way of snail mail, they get bombarded with so many e-mail’s everyday that they can not possibly read them all. The hand written letter is still a very powerful tool when it comes to getting our Representative’s to take a look at a issue, if everyone on this post wrote there State Senator and State Representative’s on this issue it could go a long way in getting things changed.

Hey kid,

Good points. I feel sorry for your town (having to wonder who and why) and those poor men.

Your last point is the most important. Freedom! Because we have Freedom! We should have the choice to carry a weapon if we meet the requirements.

Will I? Probably not. The reason, I do not own a gun and I never have. I probably will not allow a gun in the home until after the kids are grown and out of the house for good.

I am a member of the NRA and support the rights and freedoms our fore-fathers left us.

Good Luck!

Excellent points by all. My beef with discretionary permit systems is a philisophical one: How can a government that (in theory) serves its citizens deny them what is acknowledged to be a fundamental right? Would you ever see a police chief go unarmed?

The wrong-headedness of the issue is even clearly outlined in the text of bills that prohibit CCW. Almost all of them carry exemptions for off-duty police. When not on duty, they’re supposedly Joe or Jane Average Citizen just like you or me. More us and them from the people who brought you the income tax, and proof beyond doubt that gun control isn’t about guns… it’s about control.

FYI: If you want a super-cool hat like the one ReefRunner is wearing, I bought one at K-mart this winter for $20 to wear ice fishing. Saw them on clearance last week for $8. Now is the time!

Gianni,

When you gonna hang a new picture in your profile with that new hat?

sshhhhh! I’m hunting wabbits.

It’s well insulated enough that when I have it on, I can’t hear what people are saying about me. I did take it off once and catch the tail end of a conversation between my friends that insisted it should only be worn when actively engaged in the process of inbreeding.

I can take the ribbing, since it’s the warmest hat I’ve ever owned. I don’t need to look like the real Gianni Versace to catch fish. ReefRunner is definitely a trooper for keeping his pic.

I just wanna say, “This has been fun!” Way back about 30 posts ago James mentioned the fact that nobody had been verbaly attacked yet. I never would have believed it would go to the finish without happening. Way ta go guys! Gianni, how about putting your original post out on another board so we can sit back and watch the fireworks?

I believe that we have touched on an issue here that has to be addressed.

I too believe strongly in the 2nd amendment, and have radical feelings on the subject.

Scenarios as to situation outcomes, have been the platforms of arguments for both sides since day one.

And there is a case that can be made, where if individuals had been allowed to carry arms for defense, buildings would be standing and thousands of people might still be alive today.

The end solution will rest on the values we install in a child’s heart, whether a person is taught to regard life lightly, and to plan toward love or hate. The lunatics of this world will carry out their plans with the tools they have at hand, whether the tools are guns, light, Microwave, carpetfibers/petroleum, chlorine bleach, or a utility knife.

But I believe the real issue that we have before us here at EFN is this.

We are a young company, founded and focused on the sport of fishing. Only through a positive company image focused on that sport can we maintain the success we have enjoyed, and achieve the goals of our dreams. Let us avoid the labels associated with non related subjects like guns, abortion, etc. And voice strongly our opinions of such issues on the forums that deal with these concerns.

The freedoms and privileges of the sport of fishing are being challenged on many fronts at this time. Though many of these challenges seem minor now, they can grow like a cancer.

Our best weapon to meet these challenges is the promotion of fishing and the induction of more people as responsible anglers. Let us not discourage even one possible angler by displaying a label from some unrelated issue, regardless of our personal feelings.

I believe that if we strive to bring fishing back to the status of the nations most popular sport, as it once was, than instead of fighting to maintain the rights we now have, the future issues of this sport will be focused on creating more rights.

My greatest fear is that my Grandchildren will grow up in a generation where anglers are suppressed by red tape and fishing will become a sport for only the fairly wealthy.

The child angler, that wades freely the streams and shorelines today, will be the consumer and driving force at the helm of fishing tomorrow.

EFN now has a voice in shaping this future, if we stay focused our words will maintain clarity and that voice will gain in amplitude.

Nuff said.

John Eggers

Troutchaser.

Personally, having the right to or to actually carry a concealed weapon won’t have any effect on how free I am or feel! I do believe however, being a student of human behavior, that it would have an effect onhow I act and think. Does everyone really think there is a need here? Or is it just a matter of critical interpretation of our constitution. How often has the bible been misread or misinterpreted?? Do our kids get to pray in school any more or say the pledge of Allegance(sp?)? How many children in our free country are homeless, abused or murdered? Smoking pot is illegal, but having multiple DUI’s is acceptable????? Before I get too worked up, I need to add my last personal opinion on this interesting topic.

I believe there are more pressing issues to bother our representatives with than the right to carry a concealed weapon. If you do feel the need to “lobby” your wishes, do it respectfully and professionally.

Now, back to fishing!!!!

See ya

Jim W

Brought this subject up at the coffee table today. The conversation was as lively and interesting as it is here. Yet I would guess none of those folks will contact their congressmen. Those are the guys that need to hear our opinions for sure. One fellow at the table pulled out a lamenated paper clipping that was in his billfold. It read as follows: ” 1935 will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has a full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police, more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future. –Adolf Hitler ” Needless to say, it sent a chill down my back. Write,write,write your congressman!!!!! You have the right to protect you and your family!