Asian Carp – Interesting Story.

I’m kind of with Gator on this one. I have not heard of this and I think it would have gotten around to me if verified. I’m not saying that there there isn’t some kind of local epizootic running around among common carp. That could be. But if there was a new imported disease out there I’d hope that I would have heard of it by now. There is, of course, the Spring Viremia of Carp (SVC), but the symptoms do not sound right. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_VM106
I’ve heard some people suggest that SVC would be a good one to release on these guys, but hold on, bubba – we gots our own cyprinids here that we don’t want to wipe out. Plus there is some evidence that it can also attack other fish like pike. We may hear more about SVC in the future than we want to hear anyway – don’t know if we can keep it out. But I wouldn’t want to be the one to go dropping diseased fish in everywhere.

Maybe the koi thing is not so far fetched after all. Take a look at the following link.

http://www.nature.com/nsu/040209/040209-10.html

Something called the “koi herpes virus” kills 4 out of 5 common carp that were infected. This was the first time wild fish were infected. This happened in England.

You know, now that you mention it, Mark Armstrong from Arkansas said something about this at the MRB meeting. But I have not heard that it has hit the US yet.

Got a little more info on that koi disease. Apparently there was an outbreak in 2000 in the Great Lakes. So it is, or at least was, here in the US. I stand corrected. I had originally confused that outbreak with CSV.

i just got my new issue of bass master magizine there is an article in there about flying carp but i havent had a chance to read it yet

I’m a little grumpy about that article in bassmaster. It cites me as the source of some information, and it has that mostly correct – although some things are not quite right even there, for example the article says I said that the carp are pushing native fish out of winter habitat. What I really said is that that is a worry we have, not that it actually is going on. I don’t have data that can prove that yet. Also, there was some incorrect information in the article that did not come from me at all. I guess Mathiesson got that info from some web site or other, or some newspaper article. For example, the thing about the carp eating 40% of their body weight per day. I keep seeing that statistic in the media, and also 60%, but I don’t know of any study that would indicate that. The best data I have seen, and that is not real good, is that silver carp consume 10 – 17% of their body weight per day depending on size and water temperature and food availability. Bighead carp are probably a bit less. And where did that thing about spawning three times per year come from? That is definately not true for bigheads. I suspect that silver carp are incremental spawners that can spawn in little bits most any time the water temperature and flow is right, but we are still working on that too. But why THREE times? (maybe that was how many times a year someone could hormone spawn them in a hatchery? Who knows.) Anyway, I don’t think that article was very useful in terms of getting good information out to the public. Also, since I was the only person quoted in that article, a reasonable person could believe that I was the source of all that info, which steams me more than a bit.

Wow, this thread alone made me register here.

Just a brief introduction.

My name is Terry and I have been shorefishing the Mississippi for about 10 years now, ( I gotta buy a boat someday ). Mainly the Coon Rapids damn area with downtown Mpls thrown in for variety now and then.

Till this thread my thoughts on Asain carp have been pretty smallmided I admit.

I kept thinking, ” Wow! A fish that grows 100 lbs and leaps out of the water???? What a blast to have one of those on the line..”

However, It would suck to see these displace the rest of the species that keep me sane all summer.

That being said, Has anyone had one of these on their line? I can only imagine the fight you would have

Still, The joy would be short lived if that were the only thing you could catch all day.

Carptracker, Thanks for all your hard work on this subject and I look forward to reading more of your posts here.

Welcome to the site TPNTP…

This the is greatest Fishing site i’ve ever been to, and has a great group of guys who are always willing to help/share knowledge.

Have fun getting accustomed to the site!! Any questions..Just ask.

Asian Carp–To answer your question…NO i’ve never had one on the line, and hope i never do. As far as we know, they haven’t infected our pools just yet…I can tell you what i’m gonna do if i ever catch one though.

Slop Bass,

Lemme see if I have this right…..

( insert witty deleted remark here ) @ ~H20~

Wow, I get excited over catching fish , but not that excited.

Thanks for the welcome, I look forward to meeting as many of you as I can.

Funny, but not quite…

Carefully w/posts like that…..You’ll see them disappear…

Where abouts are you located? I don’t see any info. in your bio/profile.

Sorry, not trying to ruffle any feathers. Many of the boards I participate in feature banter like that on a regular basis.

Darn newbies. Oh wait…….that’s me.

I live in Coon Rapids up by Bunker Hills golf course.

I just registered this morning and havn’t got around to filling out my profile yet but will do shortly.

Thx for the tip and I will watch my posts a little more carefully in the future.

No Problem…..but if you do find some asian carp…make sure you report it to your local DNR

tntp – I’ve snagged several bigheads and I once caught a smallish (5 pound) silver carp on a plug. I’ve also caught a bunch of grass carp on rod and reel. None of these fish put up much of a fight. When you stick one with an arrow, a silver carp can go nuts, though.

More bad news.

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

U.S. officials yank fish barrier funding $4.4 million was promised for fence
By Michael Hawthorne Tribune staff reporter Published March 4, 2004

Federal officials have cut funding for a new electric fence to block voracious Asian carp from invading Lake Michigan, where biologists fear the prolific fish could rapidly spread and devastate all of the Great Lakes.

Only 50 miles of water and a temporary electrical barrier on the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal stand between the lakes and the advancing carp, which took less than a decade to eat their way up the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers. The original electric fence, an experiment to determine if fish would turn back as they swam toward it, is expected to wear out by next year. Construction of a more permanent barrier in the canal was scheduled to begin this spring. Illinois officials agreed to provide about $2 million for the project, but $4.4 million promised by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers was eliminated in the agency’s budget. Now a bipartisan group of Great Lakes lawmakers is trying to get it back.

“These fish are a disaster waiting to happen for the Great Lakes,” said Mike Conlin, fisheries chief for the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. “We’ve got to stop them here if we can.”

Asian carp, which grow to an average of 4 feet and 60 pounds, meandered north to the Illinois River after escaping from fish farms during flooding along the Mississippi River a decade ago. Fish farmers in southern states had imported the carp to control disease and algae.

The carp are a particularly threatening invasive species because they have no predators and aggressively crowd out other fish species. They can devour up to 40 percent of their body weight in a day, mostly by straining out phytoplankton, tiny creatures that provide the base of the food chain for native fish such as bass and walleye.

When frightened by passing boats, the carp can jump up to 10 feet out of the water. Scientists who monitor the Illinois River tell stories of people who have suffered broken noses, neck injuries and bruises from encounters with the leaping carp.

Officials fear the three Asian carp species–bighead carp, black carp and silver carp–could end up causing more ecological and economic damage than other invasive species that already have wreaked havoc in the lakes, such as the sea lamprey and the zebra mussel.

“This is unacceptable, especially since all that is left to do is construct the project,” the entire Illinois congressional delegation wrote last week in a letter urging the Army Corps to finance a permanent barrier of electric cables across the canal.

A spokesman in the corps’ Washington office did not return a phone call. Chuck Shea, project manager in the corps’ Chicago office, said he was told that funding for domestic projects was being cut back to provide more money for the corps’ work in Iraq and Afghanistan .

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

I had just posted this story on the general fishing board at this site, before I saw this here. Too bad I didn’t check here first, because now i had to register on the Tribune site to read that, and I suspect they’ll be sending me tons of email now. Well, thanks for posting it.

By the way, while the sentiment is correct, there is a lot of hyperbole in that article (not necessarily coming from the journalist) that is not true to the best of my knowledge. They don’t average 60 or even 40 pounds anywhere, although they can occasionally get much bigger than that. I keep seeing the “eat 40% of body weight a day” thing in the media, but the best science I have seen on that regard is really about 10 – 17% in reasonably warm weather. There has only been one black carp that we know of captured from the wild in the US, ever, so that threat is not very high – yet. ( There are black carp in aquaculture facilities in the southern US, even as far north as Missouri) They do have predators – just about any piscivore will probably eat them when they are small. But they grow so darn big the only thing that will eat them is us, once they outgrow the predators. And, minor point, but bighead carp mostly eat zooplankton along with some phytoplankton (and a lot of detritus at times), and silvers eat both zooplankton and phytoplankton too. So the “phytoplankton” thing is not really hyperbole, but it’s not quite right either.

check out the bass times article titled “Threats Below The Surfacethis article says they get to be 4 foot long and 100 lbs

also makes mention of the berrier

another article in bass times Big Head Carp With Big Bellies in Texas

huge fish

I’ve heard weights of over 100 pounds for both species, but the biggest verifiable weight of a silver carp that I have found (it was in Fauna Sinica) is a bit under the three digit mark, but close. Thanks for the note about Bass Times. Is that on the internet? I don’t subscribe to Bass Times. The Texas record bighead carp is 93 pounds, I believe.

i dont know if you can get it off the net or not

i get mine cause im in teh federation and a member of bass i guess i feel its better then the magazine and its more current

id check bass’s website i know theres a link there in subscriptions but i dont know if you can prview it

I tried and couldn’t get anything off the web. I’ve been trying to collect the articles that are out there in the popular literature, but don’t have those yet. I’ll see if there is anyone at my work that gets the rag, or maybe next time I’m in the library I’ll look it up. Thanks.

http://www.protectyourwaters.net/news/display.php?id=1019

I guess congress told General Flowers that his head “would be on a plate” if the carp got into the great lakes through the canal. Also – I got hold of the most recent bass times article on bigheads. First time I’ve seen that rag. Very nice work there. There were a lot of environmental pieces, all very well done. Much better than I would have expected from a bass fishing mag.

thats why i enjoy it so much it focuses more on whats going on then the magizine alot of articles in there about the big heads and other evasive speecies monthly it seems

pnm://sidewinder.nandomedia.com/startribune/asiancarp.rm

Maybe I am completely wrong here, but if we figure out where and when these fish spawn we could do some serious damage to there populations, right? We have a closed season for walleye, bass, pike etc. on most waters in the midwest. And on the mississippi and other rivers in the midwest where there is no closed season it is catch and release only or there is no fishing zones in known spawning areas such as the few hundred feet below dams. These regulations are designed to protect these fish from overharvest when they are very concentrated, often shallow, and easily targetd by anglers. If anglers with hook and line and can do enormous damage to fish populations think of what the dnr could do with nets and boom shocking equipment. In places where they have alread established themselves as spawning populations cant the dnr take huge numbers out with methods much more efficient than a hook and line if they target them durring the spawn (assuming they are shallow). It was said earlier that they are over harvested in china. Why can’t we do it here. I don’t care if the fish go to waiste because there isn’t a market. Yes it would take many man hours and lots of money but so does an electric barrier and it may be one of the best options for population control in places like missouri where an electric barrier won’t help.

Lindy

more news Star Trib

I learned today that the Corps got the money to build the barrier by zeroing out funding for lamprey control in the Great Lakes. Guess that will fix those Great Lakes politicos for threatening Gen. Flowers. I don’t know whether to blame expense or politics, but either way, the fisheries suffer.

i often sit here and wonder why all this is being done to save the great lakes and nothing was put into the works farther south before they got to the point they are now.

i know the great lakes are important to our water supply and the economy but why arent steps being taken to save the back waters in the middle sections of the rivers wich one biologist says in our life time the large mouth bass fishery will be basically gone with the current trends and only fish that love current thriving

maybe its just me or maybe its not published as heavily what the corps and the dnr are doing to the river and local fisheries

i know these things are a nussence but why put the barrier clear up in pool 8 and not pool 13 and stop them as far south as they can?

While fishing sturgeon on the Columbia near Portland last year I learned that if I was a little short of cash, I could fish for Pike Minnows or Squa fish and collected a bounty on them. They are now worth several dollars a piece and it is my understanding that it is the Power Companies that foot the bill. Put a bounty on these things and bill it to the barge companies and the aquaculture companies.

The pool 9 dam is a very high one that makes a good barrier, is one reason why they are thinking about it there. Plus, just the speed at which things move and the time it takes to get people up in arms about this kind of thing.

There has been some talk about putting a bounty on the Asian carp in some parts of the Illinois and Des Plaines Rivers, to take some of the heat off the barrier. It would apply to commercial fishermen only, partly because thats the only people that are likely to catch many of them.

Barge companies have nothing to do with the introduction and spread of Asian Carp. The aquaculture industry is a different matter…

I think that one reason the bounty idea hasn’t taken off very well has to do with the number of fish, the area over which they are distributed, and lack of funds.

An aside – at a meeting once an aquaculture representative suggested subsidizing packing plants to take the fish. Incredibly, the suggestion was that fish coming from aquaculture industries would get the same subsidy! Now that takes gall. But the fact is that it would be hard to tell where the fish came from. If IL puts a bounty on the fish, whats to stop people fishing in MO from collecting the bounty? And there is the worry that people would move the fish to new locations just so they could collect bounty on fish caught there too. I come from a long line of commercial fishermen, and let me tell you I’ve never heard any of them tell a lie or do anything untoward. That they’d admit to anyway.