Concealed Carry – Minnesota.

1. Because we’re imperfect mortal beings all equally born of the same emotions, capacities, and responses. Human fallibility.

2. What a sick world we’ve been! I can’t remember the last time we sold out a stadium to watch people get devoured by lions, burned a witch at stake, publicly beheaded a farmer for not paying taxes, or sold someone for slavery on eBay. As a species, in a historical reference, we’ve actually gotten MORE civilized. But the rapings, murderings, and robbings have been with us throughout time.

I feel like more fishing too! Yes, it is possible! And I should like to share the waters with you! Plenty of room for all the peace seekers, peace makers, and peace keepers.

All significant changes start from within. To change the world we must first change ourselves.

Tight lines to all!

Behead a farmer??? Is that what he said?

thats right spiner dave… I think he is encouraging us to get back to our roots!!….
or maybe I just like to misunderstand things…..

Jon,

I have a temper and know it is not a good idea for me to carry a handgun. I know that I am not the only person who has a temper, and I fear that not all 100% of those with tempers would not have sense to know they should not carry. Therefore, I fully support anything that will make it less likely that a hot tempered person will be carrying.

Ok, I’ve changed my mind 12 times i,m going Fishing

I would not carry. I live in a low crime area and feel safe in my day-to-day activities. I’ve never been in a situation in my entire life that would’ve had a better outcome if I had a gun.

I realize that not all people live the same way I do and certainly some crimes would be averted if “law-abiding” people possessed concealed firearms.

My concern is that many of the people who apply for the permits will be doing so not because they feel for they own personal safety but for other reasons (and yes, I’m implying the need for power, control and other macho characteristics). By removing the qualification process it’s my opinion that we’ll see more marginally law-abiding people possessing concealed handguns instead of would-be victims of violent crimes.

The obvious problem is defining the line for proper use of a gun. Everyone will have a different threshold. Certainly when your life is threatened, but beyond that it gets gray in a hurry. Is it when someone urinates in front of your daughter? Cuts you off in traffic? Where’s your line? It scares me to think that I may have crossed someone’s line by disagreeing with them on conceal and carry. Proponents claim it will increase fear in criminals, opponents (like me) say it instills fear in the law-abiding citizens.

I’m rarely in favor of government controls. However, the prospect of having more concealed guns on the streets makes me uneasy. I don’t understand the need for completely eliminating the requirement aspect for permits.

I get the impression many police chiefs, sheriffs, and other top local law enforcment officials are against this bill. Does anyone know of a poll that would show the aggregrate view of police chiefs, sheriffs, etc in MN? I think their views would be very important to this debate.
BN

I’ve been watching for a while, and decided to throw my two cents in. I’ve been a Police Officer for several years, and I think that there are several issues in concealed carry that need to be addressed. The first issue I have a problem with is that since I am a police officer in the state of Minnesota, this is the only state that I am allowed to carry a firearm in. If I go into Wisconsin, or any other state, I cannot carry a concealed weapon. The second is that even if I am flying within the state of Minnesota, I can’t carry a concealed weapon on a plane. I see no reason why police officers aren’t allowed to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the United States, including while flying. No other person in this country has as much training in handgun use, safety, and the use of force laws that go along with handgun carry, as a police officer. I can’t help but think that if a police officer had been on the planes that crashed into the twin towers, and had been armed, a terrorist with a utility knife wouldn’t have gotten the job done. Having said that, I am against concealed carry by civilians. There are several reasons, the first being that there is an entirely bigger issue that for the most part has been left out, which is the justifiable taking of a human life. I could recite that statute in my sleep, because of years of training engraining it over and over into my head. If regular citizens were allowed to carry a concealed weapon, would people only use it in a life or death situation? Or would it be used in a criminal manner by someone not intending to do so. Here is an example:

Someone walking by a bar late at night witnesses a fight outside of a bar. The person walking by is carrying a concealed weapon (with a permit), and decides he is going to step in, and stop the fight. The person draws his handgun, and points it at the subjects, ordering them to stop fighting. Someone calls the police, who respond to the call, and as they roll up, see a fight, and one person pointing a handgun at someone else. Minnesota Statute 609.066 says that a police officer is justified in using deadly force against another person to save someone from death or great bodily harm, so guess what, the guy trying to help out and stop the fight probably gets shot by the cop. Now you have one good samaritan dead, and one cop scarred for life because he shot someone he thought was about to shoot someone else.

I take the responsibility of carrying a handgun very seriously, and to be honest, I think that there are way to many people out there who take this issue far too lightly, I also think that there are far too many people out there who would take the law into their own hands, and not use the concealed carry weapon for the reason that it’s intended, to save a life, not stop a crime, and as a police officer, it’s my viewpoint that the responsibility of carrying a concealed weapon, and the possibility of having to use it, should be left up to the people qualified to do so.

*****WARNING*****

LONG WINDED POST DEAD AHEAD!!!

Jeff, I hear you loud and clear. I share your reflection in that I can’t think of a time in which a gun would’ve made my personal outcome any better either.

I may be misunderstanding your words, so please forgive me if you feel singled out for a moment. Well, I’m responding so maybe I should ask your forgiveness no matter what? Well, either way, understand that I’m actually a lot like you and probably wouldn’t carry, even though I could.

I feel like your point is one of misconception. I feel like the mass populations regard this legislation as a social free-for-all with no regard for who carries the weapon. I don’t know what MN has in mind, but other states like FL and TX still require a registration of the weapon, and there are qualifications in that registration. People don’t run down to the government center to get their free 9mm to hide in their briefcases and lunchboxes.

Here’s what I don’t understand. I have a dad, a couple of brother-in-laws, a handful of uncles, a crowd of cousins, and a multitude of people I call friends. I’m not a bit bothered if anyone of them goes out and buys a handgun. Target enthusiast or hunter, they have the right to own these things. Now, I know that those I know who do indeed own handguns, are educated and extremely knowledgeable about the gun itself and the responsibilities that come with them. And more so, the consequences of negligence. If I trust these people to own these weapons, should I trust them less if they choose not to have it where I can see it? This is the reality of it. To vote against the conceal and carry is to vote against arms completely. No one’s talking about a free-for-all, making sure our kids are “packed”, or issuing arms to unqualified petitioners.

Guns and the carrying of them does not instill fear in the hearts of the law abiding people. McDonalds massacre’s and “postal” incidents instill fear in the hearts of the law abiding people. Did the absence of conceal and carry do anything to change these tragedies? No. But I’m willing to bet, in these VERY CLEAR, life threatening situations, if even one person would’ve had a gun, and the opportunity to use it, at least one other life would have been saved. Will concealed weapons stop someone who’s truly lost their sanity? No. It’ll be suicide in a “blaze of glory” and some may still perish. The mental state of any lunatic is not going to be controlled by the presence or absence of any law. But those who DO wish to live, will be influenced by the presence of a gun.

Does the presence or sight of a handgun make you nervous? Anyone? I ask, is it the gun, the person handling the gun, or the CNN Headline News that creates your discomfort? Guns are all over the place. In cars, homes, cabins, stores, etc………..and we’re unaware of most of them even being around. I don’t see people waiving guns around like freedom banners or pickett signs. There is caution and respect and privacy. C&C really only opens that door, a door that already exists, a little wider.

Studies of the criminal mind have pointed out that criminals look for vulnerability. A confident walk and/or attitude is all it takes to be “passed up”. Does anyone need stare down a barrel in this example? No. Because the confidence the concealed weapon gives SOME individuals decreases their likelihood to be chosen as a victim, simply by psychological posture. Now what might have been another incident or statistic has been successfully detered, not by the use or threat of use, but merely the presence, seen or unseen.

In northern WI there are cabins and lake homes galore and throughout these “low-crime” areas, you can find 2 things. One, most “yocals” own guns and aren’t afraid to use them, or let you know they’re not afraid to use them. So, don’t go messin’ around. Is this posture the result of low crime? No. Low crime is the result of that posture. Does low population = low crime? Then how do we explain the high rate of vandalism in these areas? And who do you suppose are the ones getting vandalized? Yep, you guessed it! Unoccupied cabins and lake homes! Unprotected. Vulnerable.

Are the “yocals” getting vandalized 1 to 3 times each year? Hmmmm…………..interesting. That leads me to believe that there are criminals in these areas, crimes being committed in these areas, and that they’re consistant with the studies. Vulnerability attracts predation. Low crime = country living? Not really. But there is the presence of another mentality that says, “You come mess with me I’ll blow your fool head off”. Most city folks don’t have this mindset and ARE TOO AFRAID TO USE IT EVEN IF THEY DID. Laws. Perceptions. Impressions. Possibilities of greater danger. I have relatives who have lived in the sticks all their lives and never been broken into, but leave a dwelling unoccupied and unprotected and it’s likely to get some company!

This whole issue revolves around human nature. We’ve got good eggs and bad eggs. This has always been and forever will be. Life is conquered by death and death is surpassed by new life. It’s a never ending cycle. There will always be laws and law breakers. Because of this truth, ………………this fact, it must be decided and accepted that something will inevitably go wrong. There is no perfection. There is no education, no weapon, no drug, that can or will remove this truth. We blame freedom when someone abuses it and pass law after law until there’s no freedom left. If we take away the guns, we’ll go back to knives and swords and spears. Take those away and we’ll still have rocks and clubs. Take those away and we’ll still have hand against hand, people against people conflicts and confrontations. It won’t matter if these things are against the law. So, if the law isn’t going to stop bad things from happening TO or FROM the people, why don’t we try and stop bad things BY the people?

See, this land we love and protect was founded on this truth………………..this fact. A republic was given, to be run FOR the people, BY the people. We’ve gotten away from that but guess what? That TRUTH is STILL THE TRUTH and now we’re having some problems……………. aren’t we? We want the government to do it all for us and yet so few of us want something to do with the actual getting things done, even for our own good. The government should pass laws and they should pay for this and that and “I should have a life of doing it my way with their full support”! Look at the nations on this planet. Say what you want, feel what you feel, but you study and you’ll find this truth everywhere you look. The greater the government, the lesser the prosperity. The greater the freedom (not doing as we see fit but keeping of responsibility within the people), the greater the prosperity. No exceptions.

C&C puts responsibility back into the hands of the people. It’s an exercise in freedom and the 39 states that currently have this legislation do show POSITIVE results. Does anything speak louder than results? A finished product of an effort? “Well, that’s good for those states but they ain’t never had to deal with Minnesotans!” …………..Gimme a break! We have RESULTS, results of living with it and living without it. What’s to debate?!

For the good of the republic, do I vote against C&C just because I would still choose, like many others, to NOT carry a gun? Do I sacrifice someone else’s suffering over my preferences? I openly admit, even with the right to C&C, I will be 99.99999% likely to continue living my life without exercising that right. I prefer to not carry a gun. But that’s just me. Yet, the results………….the daily, living truths………..I can’t ignore the results. My preferences can and will still be exercised, but for the good of the republic, if I’m to believe myself to be responsibly involved with the preservation of this republic and it’s future, I MUST recognize the results and ALLOW the better RESULT to make my choice. Not my personal preference. To exercise freedom is to preserve freedom…………….at all costs. And that means that sometimes, my preferences must come second.

We’ve got soldiers getting ready to preserve our freedom. Some have already paid the ultimate price. The least we can do is honor them and take on the mission of our issues at home.

FREEDOM IS NOT THE ABILITY TO EXERCISE A PREFERENCE, BUT RATHER THE ABILITY TO ESTABLISH AND PRESENT A CHOICE FROM WHICH A PREFERENCE MAY BE EXERCISED.

If we pass C&C, there is a CHOICE to use it or ignore it. To not pass it removes the choice, and I, me………..the one I deal with everyday, cannot agree with another chip against freedom when the results speak louder than my own ideals.

Wadsworth,
From your post I think we can see the basic reason police don;t want the average citizen armed. It makes it easier if only the bad guys have the guns and I can see your point. The only problem with that reasoning is that if I call the police and say I think I am going to be robbed, I will get little police response. If I call and say I was just robbed I will have cops all over. Police are for victims. If you come up to a bar fight that a conceal carry guy was trying to break up—-believe me he will do waht you say and drop the weapon. You may have to make a decision but I trust you can decipher the situation and make the right one. What about a different scenerio. I am coming back from fishing late at night and a half naked lady runs out of the woods. Behind her is a guy with a machete and he is closer to her than I am. If I am licensed and have my 9 I pull it and take the measures I deem neccesary. Without, I use my cell phone, do what I can and when the cops get there they have their victim—even though she will never tuck her kids in again. I understand in your line of work that conceal carry will add some new sitiations. You have already stated how much training you get so maybe they will update to include handling armed legal citizens in the future. We are really on the same page, we just see it different. We both want the good guys to be safe and the bad guys behind bars or worse.

Pup,

I take no offense (nor did I intend to single out anyone in my above post). We do share similar opinions. You’re certainly right about the long-winded post . The only real difference is that I don’t think it will have an impact on the crime-rate. People can already arm themselves in their home – including handguns. I don’t see that changing the mentality of criminals.

I’m hoping that, if passed, the law won’t affect me. I will not carry (I don’t own a handgun) nor do I expect any permitted gun to be used against me. The only immediate effect is that I’m uneasy about more concealed guns in public. It’s my opinion that there will be more aggressive men applying for permits than people who live in fear of their lives.

I would hope that everyone issued a permit would have to met the following requirements:
1) No criminal history.
2) Training and testing.
3) Reasonable justification for the permit.
4) Physiological testing and affidavits from close relatives.

Again, I don’t like to government to make decisions for me. But carrying a concealed weapon has serious responsibilities.

I object to 3 and 4 of your requirements. That is what the new law is about. The Sherriffs cousin can get a permit but Joe Average can’t. We don’t need a reason other that self protection. What if they put the same requiremnents into effect to buy a boat. Do you really NEED the 19 footer. Can you justify it because of the length of your trips or number of people taken. Maybe you only need a 14 footer and it would be safer for everyone if that is what you had. Can you justify 20 rods and reels when you can only use one or two at a time. This is America and it is a place of freedom. We have rights as long as they don’t interfere with other peoples.

Redneck, I don’t think one can compare a boat, or anything for that matter, to a handgun.

Imposing a regulatory process on the possession of concealed weapons just makes sense to me. Obtaining a permit to carry should be more difficult than getting a license to drive a car.

More people are killed every year by cars than by guns to dispute your logic but I agree a licensing proccess is needed. I am against a proccess that can disqualify a person for no reason. The way the system is now it is totally up to the sherriff and that system is not fair. What if there were a limited number of licenses to be on the river and it was up to one individual to hand them out. When you looked across the river and saw that person and all his friends out but you and everyone you knew had been turned down, you would cry foul. There are “good” sheriffs in western MN that fairly hand out the permits now but in the metro it is much different.

Jeff, I agree it should perhaps be more difficult to be permitted to carry a handgun, even though unqualified drivers kill many more people with cars than handguns each year! Most of the drivers are legally licensed to drive but still, it happens. Surely the Minnesota law will include such things as; tested knowledge of the deadly force law, demonstrated proficiency with the appropriate weapon, (not a SA 22), and I am sure finger printing records. I agree with Stillakid, our freedom is what makes this country great and we need to maintain our freedoms. There may be some crazies that will end up with permits, I am sure you have noticed there are a few carrying badges that shouldn’t be. Many of those are on video! We should not be restricting the rights of the people because a small percentage may violate those rights. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said “No man shall ever be debarred from the use of guns.” and Samual Adams; “..and that said constitution be never construed to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience, or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms;..” or George Mason; “to disarm the people [is] the most effective way to enslave them…” Lastly; Adolf Hitler said, “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.”

History may not repeat itself but it tends to do so in one form or another? The CC legislation is giving back one of the rights we have as law abiding citizens that was incorrectly and unconstitutionally taken from us.

When it comes to these things, there are two ways to respond: diplomatically and confrontationally. Those who have met me (and anyone who reads this board, for that matter) know that when it’s something I care about and have an argument that I can support with facts, I trend toward the confrontational. In that sense, I am lucky to have StillaKid to put forth a level-headed response before I come on here and post something so caustic that the thread gets deleted.

I would like to extend a huge thank you to the EFN crew for allowing this to continue here, even though it has nothing to do with fishing. It is nearly impossible to find an honest discussion of this anywhere due to the ideological separation which defines the debate. Anyone who has surfed FreeRepublic or DemocraticUnderground knows that anyone with an opposing viewpoint is immediately shouted down.

I’d still like to give some perspective on some of the things that have been said wich I believe require clarification:

In reply to:

---

The first issue I have a problem with is that since I am a police officer in the state of Minnesota, this is the only state that I am allowed to carry a firearm in. If I go into Wisconsin, or any other state, I cannot carry a concealed weapon. The second is that even if I am flying within the state of Minnesota, I can’t carry a concealed weapon on a plane. I see no reason why police officers aren’t allowed to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the United States, including while flying.

---

I disagree. I am against allowing cops to carry off-duty in states where others are not. “Citizens On Patrol” are hardly citizens if they are exempt from the laws which they are themselves bound to enforce. It seems odd that you have no appreciation for Wisconsin’s disdain for the special status that Minnesota gives you, and then immediately turn around and indicate that you wish the people of your home state continue thier subjugation to the same helplessness.

That being said, I am entirely on-board with your willingness to allow concealed carry to those who are qualified for “super-citizen” status. Where I live, that means:

1. High school graduate
2. No felony convictions
3. Able to pass a simple civil service exam
4. Periodically qualify with a weapon

Greetings everyone,
I was going to remain silent but this topic has been haunting me for a long time now.
I know alot of people that have tried to get a CC permit. Out of the dozen or so attempts I know of only two people to get it.
One was a Corrections Officer for the State and he was denied a couple of times because he lived in the Metro. And he could not prove great need . Eventually he got one because he assisted in the commitment of a Murderer/Rapist. And both the Murderer and his prison wife swore Revenge. The next year it was taken away because the great need was no longer there. The other person I know to get a CCP is a roofer that claims he needed one because he carrys a lot of money around with him. He is also a crack head. But he proved a need, now I remember a news reporter about a year ago claiming that people out of the Metro area are far more likely to recieve CCP then people that live in the Metro area. So a coffee shop janitor in Park Rapids can prove a greater need then my friend the Corrections Officer. Also a earlier post on this subject told someone to lift weights and take Karate and like magic he /she would no longer need a CCP. If memory serves I believe the Taoist Boxers in China at the turn of the century attempted that very thing vs. the Brits, there were shortly afterward a lot less Taoist Boxers.
For my job lifting weights and Martial Arts are of great value, But I have know wish of taking on someone with a gun.
Thank you all for reading this, sorry if it was too long.
Bowfinhunter

(“Kung Fu”… here is a great site that has lots of Kenpo info http://www.pcwood.com/ on the art)
Bowfinhunter,
My six years experience with Kenpo Karate has taught me that it is better to walk away… than to fight,
better to hurt… than to mame,
better to mame… than to kill,
better to kill… than be killed.
As effective is my own use of the Kenpo knowledge, I will still choose a gun (or any other whepon)… if and when it is needed to defend myself, my family, and country.

I “packed a pistol” the first two years I was up here (arrived some twenty years ago)… having moved to Minnesota from Texas. It was just part of my “culture” back then, to have my hand-gun… very handy.
I no longer carry, I guess have mellowed some in my old age. But figure it is not needed here in Owatonna, today.
But… I have taken it every time I go to visit back home in Dallas / Fort Worth, Texas. It is just “part of the program” down there!
Dave Hoggard

Jon, thanks for bringing this up and also thanks to FTR for letting it continue since it has nothing to do with fishing.
I’d just like to bring up the fact that before Florida enacted shall issue laws we heard from the naysayers about how Florida would be like the wild west with shootouts and such. Guess what…. the crime rate actually dropped! Since then 30 some more states have joined the bandwagon and crime rates there have fallen as well. Meanwhile crime in DC is worse than ever proving that criminals love an unarmed society.

Redneck: You say “14 oz. of steel isn’t going to turn you into a raving madman??? And then follow it up with a story like this???

“One time my 6 y.o. daughter and I were fishing and a car with 2 rather drunk cowboys(no offense to cowboys) blocked my truck in the lot and preceeded to try to rile me up. I was kind of blowing them off till they started to urinate right in front of her—I knew it was time to stop the B.S. so I pulled my .357 from my coat pocket. I layed it on the roof of the truck as I stared at them, they called me a few names as they drove off. Now maybe kung-fu or chop-suey would have done the trick but I was looking to defend me and mine as effectively as possible.”

Redneck, you poor, misinformed and impotent little boy, you are Exhibit A for why not every yahoo who asks for a permit should be allowed to carry a concealed handgun. To think that you are going to convince us that you should be able to carry a concealed handgun so you can whip it out every time some drunk blocks your car in or takes a whiz in front of you is pure lunacy! Too bad the cops weren’t around to haul your sorry little ass to jail for pulling a gun on a couple of drunks.

You are not only a raving madman, Redneck, you are one sick puppy. I wouldn’t even give you a license to drive a car with your mentality, let alone carry a gun

OK all you panty waist milque toast’s, If you don’t like guns or don’t like the idea of law abiding citizens carrying guns why don’t you try living somewhere like D.C. or New York City where essentially no guns are allowed. Or maybe move to England where due to the lack of personal firearms crime is so low. Reminds me, hey didn’t we have to kick some British ass a few times because they tried to infringe on our civil liberties. Getting off the subject there a bit but the point is if you don’t like guns don’t own one, and if you don’t agree with the second amendment try living somewhere it doesn’t exist.

“Don’t Tread on Me”

Sounds like someone had too much caffeine this morning.

Seriously, I am in favor of what the gov’t is trying to pass. Can I live my life without a concealed handgun? Absolutely. Will I apply for a permit to carry if allowed? Absolutely. The point is, with such a sticky subject as this we all can agree that not everybody will come out happy regardless of the vote. I own a handgun now, and I don’t feel the need to carry it around. Besides a Colt Anaconda 44 mag w/ a 8 3/8″ barrel is kind of heavy. But I will make sure my wife and I get permits and the proper education needed for the permit. I want one for my wife for personal protection. I want a permit to carry the firearm in public during hunting season. Like I said, my life will not come to an abrupt end if I don’t get to carry a handgun. That is a fact.

Lastly, what in the blue blazes is a ‘panty waist milque toast?’

I incurred an arhythmia from too much coffee so now I been prohibited from consuming any caffeinated beverages.

Panty waist milque toast: Doesn’t watch “The Man Show”.

Well put Blue Fleck. Fished Below I90 last night to no avail though did miss a few. I’m originally from Dresbach.

I do watch the man show, I just don’t remember that. My wife likes it also.
Send me a PM I’d like to talk to you some more.
Fishing up @ the dam was awful last night. The morning bite has been better, much better.

WHOA HOSS!!!! There’s no doubt that touchy subjects are going to set off some fireworks but let’s keep this in perspective. Everyone has a right to express their views and at this point…………that’s all ANY of this is. One point of view expressed amongst other points of view.

Go ahead. Get passionate! Transfer the feeling! But let’s keep it in perspective. Everybody here, no matter their view has a contribution to this board and the many lives they touch. Just because it doesn’t identify personally doesn’t mean they deserve a verbal onslaught. If anyone here can honestly say that they’ve said and done EVERYTHING perfectly, throughout their life, I’ll gladly stand corrected. I too get wound up, we’ve all seen it, and they become moments I’m not proud to remember and I am making a point to work hard at preventing any future blasts of embarrassment. I’ve read from minds much greater than my own that have been able to show, with conclusive evidence, that you’ll never change anyone’s perspective through anger, humiliation, embarrassment, slander, etc., etc.,……………….. but treat them as a fellow PERSON, of value, contribution, and with passion, and you’ll most likely, not always, but very often at least get the other person to calmly hear you out. They STILL may not agree with you, but at least they’ll take a second to listen.

So guys………….this journey we call life……………. look beyond, then look in, and realize many things are only heated, momentary, emotional responses. It’s all too short to spend time throttling each other. We don’t have to agree on everything. But maybe we can strive for compromise through mutual understanding, respect, and still form lasting bonds over the things that are shared and agreed upon.

Everyone here has value, no matter their personal belief system or point of view. Let’s keep it real!

Roger that, Kid. I was more than a little bit surprised (although pleasantly) that this took so long to degrade into a flame-war.

While we are not likely to change the opinions of those with whom we debate, what we say here can have an impact on the lurkers who can read this with an unbiased opinion and offer a fair evaluation of the issue while making up their own minds. Starting a urinary olympics contributes nothing to either side.

I’ve had a concealed weapons permit in Iowa for some 30 years. The County Sheriff determines who can have one. We got a new Sheriff, formerly the head deputy, a few years back. He immeditly started jerking everybody around. To get a permit from him you had to prove a “need”. The only thing he couldn’t deny was if you carried “sums” of money. So starting this year he comes up with a program where you have to Qualify with the hand gun anually, which wouldn’t be so bad. Execpt no other countys in this area do this. He attached a very hefty “fee” for letting you qualify. Since the “fee” goes to his use, in addition to the annual fee for the permit. I decided that no oftener than I need to carry, a 12ga. pump under the seat serves the same need. Besides that unlicensed carry is only a misdemeaner anyway. So this year I’m not renewing my permit. Did he win? I don’t think so.

I like what Stillakid2 said so I am going to let Catfish John’s comments go. Personal attacks will get us no where. I did agree with one thing CFJ said—he wished there was a cop around. ME TOO!!! but I was 20 miles of bad gravel road from the nearest town. At no point did I aim the pistol at anyone and it still served it’s purpose. I was licensed to carry and did nothing illegal. I guess if I lived in an area with police on every corner I wouldn’t see a need but I tend to end up in places with no one else around. Been the last one off the river at 3 in the morning too many times. How did I do Stillakid2, nonconfrontational enough?? You should have seen my first draft.

Redneck,

If your first draft was anything like my first draft, I DID read it! Maybe not the same sentences but I’m sure I used a lot of the same words!

Nah…………….I just get concerned about the products of heated discussions and I’d like to believe that NO ONE comes here hoping to find one. In case anyone out there hasn’t noticed, there’s a “magic” about this site. Atmosphere, character, color, appreciation, largely unselfish, good willing, uplifting…………….the list could go from Red Wing, MN to Sydney, Australia! There’s no right or wrong involved in many of these “touchy” subjects but it challenges our personal belief systems, which sadly enough, is significantly underdeveloped.

I heard a survey reported over Christmas that stated 76% of all Americans surveyed really didn’t know why they believed what they believed. It was just the “way it’s always been” for them. In those challenging moments (this could seriously side track so I’ll refrain from the details) we’re ready to paint the faces and start slinging swords.

In reality, a lot of it doesn’t matter. Guided by feelings instead of facts, we get carried away and blow up! Again, I’m as guilty as anyone! But the formation and continuance of blowouts and conflicts, can and will kill the EFN “magic” faster than any gun, concealed or otherwise.

I’m thankful for everyone here. I’m sure I will learn something from each of you in the tomorrow’s that lie ahead.

I called to inquire about a CC permit, and was told “Don’t bother.” It was made clear that there was a dollar amount that you had to have with you at all times to get the permit. $500 cash is worth more than your life, sorry. Heck, my wedding ring cost more than that, and let’s not get into what my truck keys are worth.

That being said, I know of several people who currently hold Iowa weapons permits. One is a small business owner, the other was a county official for some twenty-plus years and deer hunted with the sherrif. These are the sorts of things that uniform standards are meant to correct.

A lot of people think that CCW laws are meant to give every yahoo a gun. They are not. For the most part, the requirements for obtaining a CC permit are either the same or similair to those of joining a law enforcement org. The injustice that the law is meant to overcome is the political favoratism of the current weapons permit system.

I am enjoying this thread, and hope that those on the other side of the debate can say the same. I think it is fair to say that if rough drafts were meant to be posted, this could’ve been one helluva mess. That “preview” button is a lifesaver.