St.Croix Rods

I just came from Starks Sports Shop wanting to order a St. Croix rod that they didn’t have on hand……

and Randy told me that St. Croix wouldn’t sell them any more rods…….well I asked ………..WHY !!!

They are selling rods for $10 – $40 cheaper than the catalog prices of their competitors ……and its making the competition mad ?

Randy also told me that St.Croix has no minimum retail price guide lines so they were getting treated………..well like do-do

It looks to me like a case of…. who writes them the biggest check’s bark is the loudest and lets let Starks Sport Shop(my local sport shop,the place where i go on rainy days to talk with fishing friends, the place where i buy my jigs, the place where i but my favorite beverage, the place where i bought my boat, the place where,,,,,,,,,,,well you get the idea) take it in the shorts by BIG BUSINESS !!!!!

I own 3 of these rods …two I’ve bought from Starks and one I bought right from St. Croix while I was visiting their manufacturing operation . I relize that this probably doesn’t matter to, or will have alot of affect on alot of you ………..

but…………

it seamed to me that I should post such an event. I’ve even asked for the letter from St. Croix to Starks to post as an attachment…it may follow.

word of mouth is the BIGGEST advertiser.And youve herd it from my mouth/keys

ec

Actually… most all high end rod retailers are bound by an agreement to never sell rods for less than list price. Exceptions would include demo rods and inventory of models that have been closed out. St. Croix, G Loomis…. these rod manufacturers make it clear that if a retailer wants to part ways, all they need do is run a “sale” on their rods. I’m not commenting directly on Stark’s situation…. I don’t know the particulars. I do know that any retailer discounting such rods would have a VERY short relationship with this manufacturer in particular, and other high end rod manufacturers in general.

Its just the way that game is played…. in the rod industry and throughout the fishing tackle and equipment business and its a fact that Hougom and I have been made aware of in abundantly clear fashion as we opened the EFN Outlet.

And although it seems like this is big business stomping on the little guy…. it actually works both ways. If there aren’t any pricing guidelines to operate from, the only place you’d be able to buy a high-end rod in very short order would be the huge operations like Gander, Cabelas, etc., that would buy millions of dollars of these rods at a crack, get a price break for doing so, then turn around and sell them for a price that Starks and all the other small shops couldn’t even dream of touching.

I agree with your statement totally James . But Starks has been selling these rods this way (to my understanding) for quite some time now….. I’m not looking for arguement….(but it sure sounds like it )……but untill Big Business came to town it was no Big Deal….

ec

No arguement here either. No increase in blood pressure or pulse on this end.

Its a slippery slope and an arguement can be made for and against these pricing guidelines. And yes, a manufacturer is only likely to step in after other retailers make a stink. They get forced to make it an issue and take a stand. And to be sure, any retailer discounting these rods knew exactly the potential risks they were running when this issue would come to a head.

And again, this is a fight that Starks doesn’t want to win. Although its good to be the only store discounting these rods, if everyone did it the little shops will be consumed by the heavy hitters with deep pockets and the ability to buy these rods by the semi-load in no time. And you and I would end up buying our rods from a few huge retailers able to successfully compete solely on price.

I understand and see both of your views…yes, even you james…lol. I understand the minimum retail price forced among vendors, but what really makes me mad is the markup on these products. Wether it be fishing rods, tackle, tennis shoes or any other celebrity endorsed product! The cost of production is peanuts compared to what they sell them for. The “you get what you pay for” saying is true, but the quality of a $300 rod compared to a $30 dollar rod is not proportional to the performance. “Air Jordan” shoes don’t make you any better of a basketball player than $9.99 K-mart specials. You get the picture……that is what is more frustrating than anything. Will this ever change?? No. Not with celebs promoting certain products, but we can still complain! Just had to vent……….

ecnook,

there has got to be more to the story.

I bought my house from national sales manager from St Croix and have met one of the Schlueter brothers through another business deal. St Croix is one of the cool stories of the fishing industry IMHO. Small town, American manufacturer who makes a very high quality product and provides jobs to a town in Northern WI where if you don’t work in the paper mills, there isn’t much else to do to feed the family.

Also, if you’ve been to their manufacturing facility, I don’t know how you could call it BIG business? I would guess

that Stark’s has more in yearly sales than St Croix.

I will talk to my contacts there and find out their side of the story. Something you should have done before blasting them on this website.

I don’t want an argument either, but I know some of those guys personally and I LOVE their products.

Yep you are absolutley right !! There are always two sides to every story,and as far as BB goes most houses houses have bigger garages than SC building jk . But after asking around I thought it was Technically, it is illegal to set prices, by the manufacturer, or by a group of independently operated stores. That’s why they have suggested retail. St. Croix won’t admit forcing the retailers to sell the same rods at the same price, or the Federal Trade Commission would slap them with a price-fixing lawsuit.

Obviously, there are ways around that. One is inventory replacement, slow order shipping, etc.

ec

Well, back after a short jaunt on the ‘Croix. 1 dink walleye and 2 legal smallies (not really legal as the season opens on the ‘Croix Memorial Day weekend) on St Croix rods.

ec,

it’s too bad that you can’t purchase those rods at your favorite haunt. Sometimes businesses have to “fire” customers. It’s the 80/20 rule. 80% of your business comes from 20% of your clients. If St Croix’s 20% of clients include Cabela’s and Bass Pro you can sort of figure who’s going to be the odd man out.

peace. didn’t mean to get in your dish so early in the morning.

Having been in the retail business and also on the wholesale side, I can see both points. Last year, a cap manufacturer (different biz but the same concept) refused to sell to a couple of my customers. They had businesses that were in their homes and the theory was that they had the ability to undercut the folks who had businesses who had “storefronts”. I had to agree with them.

The problem is that the retail price is not just set arbitrarily. It’s one that allows retailers (and wholesalers) to cover their costs. Sometimes, it looks as though a store is marking things up a huge amount (most of them use a 50% profit margin, double their cost), but when you take the actual cost of operating a typical store into account, you really find that there isn’t a lot of margin.

St. Croix has to have learned from experience that it isn’t just a volume business. People who mark good down or use a sale price that’s way below retail, don’t survive very long and their concern is to make sure that the retailers survive over the long run and don’t just sell by volume. I’d say that most successful manufacturers have learned the same lesson.

Mike

Kinda takes the FREE out of free enterprise doesn’t it? Mudlnthru, I don’t think Starks is in any danger of going out of business due to a “volume only” sales philosophy. They have been right where they are since I can remember, I’m 42. They stay in business because they know their business, because they know they have to make money AND serve their customers. I really don’t think Starks need help from St.Croix on pricing and profit margin. St. Croix builds a great rod, I think we all agree on that, but when you jump to their defense on this price fixing issue you are also paying the price out of your own pocket . I stopped at Stark’s on the Sunday between Christmas and NewYears and who did I find working? Dick Stark himself,along with other employees, THAT is how business stay strong for generations. see ya………B

You’re right, B. And I wouldn’t ever take the free enterprise out of business. Sometimes, it just ain’t right that manufacturers get so much leeway. Fortunately, they all are free to determine their own policies.

And to tell the truth, I really enjoy the chance to deal directly with owners rather than walk into someplace like Gander Mountain (even though they do tend to hire people who like to fish/hunt/talk about it and are usually a bit knowledgeable). I always pick the small shops over the big stores.

Just to talk both sides of the policy issue, a lot of companies have set standards similar to St. Croix (Apple computer comes to mind) and failed miserably. A free pricing standard is often the best policy all the way through.

Keep Starks going! Sounds like a great place. If I’m in the area, I’ll sure stop in.

Mike

Just another comment….If St. Croix is going to be able to come up with these most excellent rods, the cost of R&D (research and development) is an area that most of us can’t comprehend in the amount of $ each year they are spending.

ec

“Air Jordan” shoes don’t make you any better of a basketball player than $9.99 K-mart specials. You get the picture……that is what is more frustrating than anything. Will this ever change??”

Not as long as people keep buying the products it wont change. I will never buy the ‘it only cost them $5 to make, and they sell it for $25! Argument. Do you think a bar owner selling shots paid $200 for the bottle of boose? Its his only income stream. Taxes, salaries, benifits (US products anyway)… I don’t have to tell you, the expenses hide everywhere. But as a manufacturer (me) I can tell you first hand, the actual expenses of the product are far less than the expenses that make it to the bottom line.

To keep the peace, I intend to use your landing from now on I knew where it was by water, but last trip over I checked it out from land. Now I will be able to find it. I never wanted to look at 5:00 am and loose fishing time. Its a long trip from Chippewa Falls. I’m rambeling, time for bed.

Thanks,

FlyBoy

Suggested retail prices are just that…..a few yrs back a large sneaker company(cough reebok cough) got into abit of a tiff with the Federal Trade Commission, slap on the wrist was in the tens of millions of dollars. Once a retailer buys the product, they own it. Sure, a supplier can cut them off, but a lil phone call to FTC may rectify the situation. I deal with stores and manufacturers, and when they get on my tail about pricing, I mention the FTC and then the ole sales manager seems to have another phone call….my two cents worth….

The “Air Jordan” example is an interesting one. I don’t condemn anyone for going to WalMart and buying a $6.99 Shakespeare rod………..it WILL catch fish. BUT, what makes a better fisherman? How about tools that work better for you? See, the sneakers don’t make you a better ball player, but if they give you better comfort and confidence, you will “become” better at what you’re doing. I like the feel of a light, sensitive rod………….one that tells me more than the cheapest graphite, thus boosts my confidence, thus boosts my results. Who continually rises to the top………….a self-confident “go-getter” or a timid, insecure recluse? Preference………….confidence…………..these are 2 things most people are willing to pay for………….I have some really nice Berkleys, Shakespeares, Mitchells………quite a list actually, but I continually reach for my “upper crust” rods………Lamiglas, St. Croix, G Loomis, Fenwick……………they’re a tool of preference, if for nothing else…………comfort. My 2 cents.