POOL 4 SPAWN

Just wondering if there has ever been a Walleye/Sauger Spawn with this low of water before.? The river level is Extremely Low for this time of the year.!! In all my years on the Sippi I can not remember a spawn in this low of water. (But then again there rrr lots of things I can not remember. Maybe that’s a good thing though.) The low water year spawns usually are very poor spawns. Plus the fishing pressure on pool 4 is the highest that its ever been. These fish are getting HAMMERD.!! Big Time. All the fish are between the banks on the main channels. The walleyes can not get to where they want to spawn in this low water…..Plus With the water this low they can NOT get away from the fishing pressure. The average modern day fisherpersons are way better fishermen/Ladies than in years past…. I would think the DNR must have records of the water levels from past spawns.?? …SO BK Would you please check this out with Nick or who ever.? … …rrr

river rat randy wrote:

Just wondering if there has ever been a Walleye/Sauger Spawn with this low of water before.? The river level is Extremely Low for this time of the year.!! In all my years on the Sippi I can not remember a spawn in this low of water. (But then again there rrr lots of things I can not remember. Maybe that’s a good thing though.) The low water year spawns usually are very poor spawns. Plus the fishing pressure on pool 4 is the highest that its ever been. These fish are getting HAMMERD.!! Big Time. All the fish are between the banks on the main channels. The walleyes can not get to where they want to spawn in this low water…..Plus With the water this low they can NOT get away from the fishing pressure. The average modern day fisherpersons are way better fishermen/Ladies than in years past…. I would think the DNR must have records of the water levels from past spawns.?? …SO BK Would you please check this out with Nick or who ever.? … …rrr

i have been wondering the same thing. This low water makes fishing down there pretty tight. I Assume the fish will find a place to spawn regardless of the low water. Plenty of suitable ground throughout the system. Finding those spots with the low water is a different story..

Tried extracting more historical data but this is as far back with a graph I got. For reference the stage currently in Red Wing is 69.11

Someone needs to start an empty livewell campaign. Just a pic of an empty livewell, make it go viral on the WWW. All we see is stringers of fish layed out and that makes the next guy want a bigger stringer, or at least the same size. Male psychology is just that and is what it is.

Me personally when told of how well people did and how many buckets of fish they brought home I ask how many they released. Remind them how important it is to release at least a few for future generations. I can say for certain that a couple of those family and friends now release some here and there, where in past wasn’t a thought.

My advice is be that @hole and keep reminding people over and over to release fish, and a livewell full of fish doesn’t show your a good fisherman, just a greedy one and good sportsmanship for us begins with releasing fish. I love fish just as much as the next guy, but I love lobster too, and I don’t feel a need to eat that every week.

Until the mindset changes for society on keeping fish, numbers will continue to drop, trophies will become scarcer, and the “hotbite” of certain waters will continue to annihilate the fish population and move on to the next water. DNR can change regs all it wants, but mother nature has her way, and these off years for poor spawns will hurt a population so bad it just cant recover even with the good spawns, bc in between you have LEGAL fisherman raping the system.

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nhamm wrote:

Tried extracting more historical data but this is as far back with a graph I got. For reference the stage currently in Red Wing is 69.11

Someone needs to start an empty livewell campaign. Just a pic of an empty livewell, make it go viral on the WWW. All we see is stringers of fish layed out and that makes the next guy want a bigger stringer, or at least the same size. Male psychology is just that and is what it is.

Me personally when told of how well people did and how many buckets of fish they brought home I ask how many they released. Remind them how important it is to release at least a few for future generations. I can say for certain that a couple of those family and friends now release some here and there, where in past wasn’t a thought.

My advice is be that @hole and keep reminding people over and over to release fish, and a livewell full of fish doesn’t show your a good fisherman, just a greedy one and good sportsmanship for us begins with releasing fish. I love fish just as much as the next guy, but I love lobster too, and I don’t feel a need to eat that every week.

Until the mindset changes for society on keeping fish, numbers will continue to drop, trophies will become scarcer, and the “hotbite” of certain waters will continue to annihilate the fish population and move on to the next water. DNR can change regs all it wants, but mother nature has her way, and these off years for poor spawns will hurt a population so bad it just cant recover even with the good spawns, bc in between you have LEGAL fisherman raping the system.

Why is it that everyone feels the need to tell you what you can and can’t keep? ITs like saying you can’t and shouldn’t shoot that little buck. Keep whatever you want, Don’t keep whatever you want!

WarEagle wrote:

Why is it that everyone feels the need to tell you what you can and can’t keep? ITs like saying you can’t and shouldn’t shoot that little buck. Keep whatever you want, Don’t keep whatever you want!

“Everyone” is embellishing the number a little bit.
No one is being singled out, and it sounds much like a genuine concern for the breeding stock of the system. When fish are more congregated and a likelihood of a poor hatch/survival, does that not create concern?

Your right, everyone is embellishing the number a little bit. A lot of people are is what I should have stated. I’m all for being a conservationist, but I will not tell anyone what they can and can’t keep.

Just settle down.just cause people want to keep some fish doesn’t meen you need to get all flustered. I’ve been down to pool 4 prolly 8 time this year and have took home maybe 8 fish for meals. I know what you are saying and it’s tough to see but there really is nothing we can do about it. If people have been complaining about Mille lacs netting for years and the Dnr hasn’t done nothin can u imagine how long it would take the to regulate the spring bite on p4.
Also this topic came up on Facebook and some guy found some stats that said the mortality percent on p4 in the spring is less than 10% of the fish population/ spawn and it also showed some other cool facts about p4 I’ll see if I can find it. I can’t remember the exact stats but it was mind blowing on how little it said affected the system. With that being said I have not seen pool 4 this busy ever.

WarEagle wrote:

Why is it that everyone feels the need to tell you what you can and can’t keep? ITs like saying you can’t and shouldn’t shoot that little buck. Keep whatever you want, Don’t keep whatever you want!

Not everyone feels the need to do so, I try not to all the time. But that’s the freedoms of this awesome country of ours. It leaves a lot of the governing to us individuals. Some trends will stick, some wont. But either way its no reason for people to get so butthurt on one opinion.

This is just one trend I hope starts to stick

As conservationists utelizing a resource, it is all our responsibility to promote resource management. The DNR and courts work too slow to adjust laws to current conditions and trends. Just because the current laws state something, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best solution to maintain a resource at a given moment. There is no harm in being over cautious vs ignoring recommended management, and taking what the law entitles. With the latter, we could find ourselves in an unwanted postion years down the road.

Any chance we ALL get, we need to at least voice our concern and recommend letting some go. Don’t tell people what they have to do, but suggest and educate them on the vulnerability of spawning fish. The more people that speak and show to others that it’s great to release a few and take a little less, the more it spreads.

This helps everyone, the sport fishers and the meat hunters, so I do not understand why anyone would really complain. More and bigger fish for years to come is a win/win! But the key is to NOT force it down people’s throats, but to suggest, and to show others by tossing some back.

raynestorm wrote:

But the key is to NOT force it down people’s throats, but to suggest, and to show others by tossing some back.

People I know well, and respect, and they respect me, I wont force it down their throat necessarily, but ill hold it real close to their face for a long time

Maybe its my old school upbringing but when it comes to certain things no sense in beating around the bush. I think most people know what the fish are doing during the spawn, I think most know they are taking meat, it just doesn’t occur that it hurts anything. Had to change my mind on this as well years ago.

But I agree it doesn’t work for all, and probably wouldn’t be a good thing for the new sensitive generations. So while others educate and talk about conservation, I’ll stick with the ol Catholic nun schoolteacher and whack people with my verbal yardstick to the back of their heads….in the nicest way possible of course.

I don’t think anyone’s really trying to tell anyone what they can and can’t take. I see this a lot with some of my very close friends though…. It seems as if they get more thrill out of filling the live well than the actual experience of the “catch”. My heart skips a beat every time a fish bumps my lure and I set that hook! Isn’t that the same thing that gets most of you out on the water as well? My wife and I fish a lot on pool 4 as well as Iowa, Minnesota, south Dakota, and Canada and we prolly keep no maybe 12 fish a year. This doesn’t make me better than anyone else but I just feel I owe it to someone to return most of the fish I catch to be caught another day. I also don’t shoot bucks under 4.5 yrs old but that’s another story;-)

Keep complaining and it will still do nothing. With the way social media is. You think p4 was busy this year you wait till next. And I’ll tell you right now there’s a hell of a lot more meat hunters out there than there is trophy hunters. When people travel to p4 from Iowa and Illinois do you think the care about catching hogs. Well sure they do but at the end of the day alls they want to do is bend the rod and take fish home.
Sucks to see but if they buy a license there is nothing we can do.

I’m glad this discussion comes up every year…sure beats the “I told you so” posts.

It’s been posted before, but if you have some free time google “MN DNR EFFECTS OF CONTINUOUS FISHING ON P4”.

What was this post about?

Carry on…

Brian Klawitter wrote:

MN DNR EFFECTS OF CONTINUOUS FISHING ON P4

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/fisheries/investigational_reports/378.pdf

If this link doesn’t work try this one and scroll down to report 378.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/publications/fisheries/investigational_reports.html

Brian Klawitter wrote:

It’s been posted before, but if you have some free time google “MN DNR EFFECTS OF CONTINUOUS FISHING ON P4″.

What was this post about?

…The DNR study years were 1961 to 1987. A whole LOT has changed scents 1961.!! Not sure when the 1st Depth Finds came out, But in 1961 the best they would have had back then would have been the Lowrance Green Box. In 1961 most boats did not have a depth finder, I know that my boat did not have one until some time in the late 1970’s. The pressure on pool 4 from the study years to now is a 100 times more than it was back in 1961, and with all the modern equipment.! For my 2cents that study is out dated and NOT worth the time to read it… …rrr

i started following a walleye page on facebook where the majority of members are from erie/detroit river. i’ve almost unfollowed it a few times due to the jealousy of guys holding up absolute hogs. but one thing i’ve noticed is that the pressure it gets is astonishing. waiting 6 hours to put a boat in. and then the crapstorms that go on when a guy posts a cleaning table with 10+ trophy walleyes full of eggs.

a guy posted a pic and in that 1 pic it was at least 100 boats fit into like a football field size hole.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

What was this post about?

…It was mainly about the pressure in the low water spawn yrs. Like this year. When all the spawners are here and between the banks. And can NOT avoid the pressure….. In high water yrs. fish can get away from the pressure. They can and do go into the flooded woods and back water sloughs, where they are much harder to get at…… There was no mention of who keeps what. But now that that has been thrown in here to. This year I have seen more females full of spawn come in than ever be for.!! … …rrr

nhamm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>WarEagle wrote:</div>
Why is it that everyone feels the need to tell you what you can and can’t keep? ITs like saying you can’t and shouldn’t shoot that little buck. Keep whatever you want, Don’t keep whatever you want!

Not everyone feels the need to do so, I try not to all the time. But that’s the freedoms of this awesome country of ours. It leaves a lot of the governing to us individuals. Some trends will stick, some wont. But either way its no reason for people to get so butthurt on one opinion.

Those same freedoms allow anyone that pays for their license that same idea to keep what they want….. I don’t keep females, but I don’t tell others what to do either.

river rat randy wrote:

In 1961 most boats did not have a depth finder

Do you remember back in the 60’s having to break shale ice most of the way to the dam to fish? The river back then was never as open as it is today and fishing opportunities back then were certainly more limited. Couple that with technology and then the reactor keeping the water open all year and the differences between then and now are very apparent.

The DNR Fisheries staff in Lake City supposedly did studies to determine what the warm water infusion has done to winter fishing in pool 4 and in it the contend that nothing had changed. If so, where has the winter fishery that existed up until the time the reactor went on line gone to? I am sure Randy can remember the good fishing that Pepin had in the 60’s too. Its the fisheries’ contention that the fish are NOT moving upstream during the winter to where the warmer water lies because of the reactor, so where then are they?

Granted, the fisheries division has a job to do, but quite honestly I think they spend more time writing reports that keep their a$$e$ covered than writing reports based on straight forward facts. There are several instances of where DNR studies, followed by written reports, have failed the fishery [think Mille Lacs or invasive species infestations] miserably. As mentioned, this border water area issue is compounded by two states fisheries’ departments butting heads over regulations and neither any smarter than the other.

Randy brings to light a very real question on spawning and spawning success during low water event such as what this year has presented. When the traditional high water spawning sites with super high success rates are not available, do those fish seek out sandy points or long stretches of gravel bottom to spawn or do they simply re-absorb the spawn like so many other fish will? According to some of what has been written in the long-past says that a nose dive in spawning success for a year doesn’t harm the fishery much, but as Randy alludes to, there are way more and better equipped anglers today that have year-round access to these fish.

This thread is very similar to the one right next to it about keeping females. I have a very long post in there about how I feel about it so I’ll keep this one short.

Do you want the DNR to tell you how many to keep by over-restricting harvest with a tight slot AFTER they figure out that the fishery is depleted? Or can we as anglers step up and regulate ourselves?

Can anyone remember a time when musky and bass fishing was better than it is now? Catch and release works folks.

Tom and Randy: Thank you very much for your wisdom and thoughts. Much appreciated (seriously). I have two points on this discussion:

(1) I agree that we all need to be stewards of our natural resources. We cannot and should not rely on the government to “regulate” our activities. In some respects, that is not the job of the government. I think we all should think more about how our actions effect the environment around us and react/act accordingly.

(2) I do believe the DNR when they say the fishing pressure does not significantly impact the fish population (or that is how I understand it). This discussion comes up every year and people get upset because there are now a ridiculous amount of boats and, in my humble opinion, it has gotten to the level where I don’t even want to go in the spring during weekend or daylight hours. However, I am not sure that the fish are being adversely effected. Every year somebody posts the graphs of fish populations in the system. Every year the fish seem to be doing just fine. Some years better, some years worse. But, RRR might be correct that this year, in particular, could cause a bad year class 3-4 years from now.

So, in sum, I think everybody has a point here. At the end of the day, we all should try to be stewards of the resources we love. Gluttony should also not be encouraged.

flanders51 wrote:

Tom and Randy: Thank you very much for your wisdom and thoughts. Much appreciated (seriously). I have two points on this discussion:

(1) I agree that we all need to be stewards of our natural resources. We cannot and should not rely on the government to “regulate” our activities. In some respects, that is not the job of the government. I think we all should think more about how our actions effect the environment around us and react/act accordingly.

(2) I do believe the DNR when they say the fishing pressure does not significantly impact the fish population (or that is how I understand it). This discussion comes up every year and people get upset because there are now a ridiculous amount of boats and, in my humble opinion, it has gotten to the level where I don’t even want to go in the spring during weekend or daylight hours. However, I am not sure that the fish are being adversely effected. Every year somebody posts the graphs of fish populations in the system. Every year the fish seem to be doing just fine. Some years better, some years worse. But, RRR might be correct that this year, in particular, could cause a bad year class 3-4 years from now.

So, in sum, I think everybody has a point here. At the end of the day, we all should try to be stewards of the resources we love. Gluttony should also not be encouraged.

Point 1….100% in agreement
Point 2….What Randy and I have tried to say is that things change and things are indeed way different from when many of the “reports” regarding this particular fishery were written and still taken as gospel today. Back in the 60’s the same area in discussion here didn’t have the numbers of fish nor did it have the numbers of anglers, year round, that hammer the fish today. Things change….except for how the fishery is managed. I don’t fish pre-spawn or spawning walleyes/sauger so if the laws were changed to require releasing all fish obviously full of eggs and/or males releasing milk, or basically making any fishing from January 1st thru the inland opener c/r only starting 2 miles below the dams it would get my nod just as a “right thing to do for this fishery”.

Read the posts about fishing up there. So many boats, too friggin fast this, too close that, anchoring where….it goes on and on. And gets worse each year. Yes, there are those who choose to police themselves. Kudos to them. Then there are those who can’t catch[or snag] a fish outside of a scour hole. And this gets worse each year.

Now toss in a year where the fish full of eggs are just getting smoked and kept. Randy’s concern is real and I tend to agree wholly with him in wondering what the effects of how yesterday’s reports and regulations might have on tomorrows fishing especially in light of the low water harvest being seen today. Nobody is telling anyone what to keep or not keep.

Social media has ruined the spawn; not the low water levels. Not sure why the majority feels the need to tell the world where and how the walleye bite is. Remember when people used to just fish and not hit the water based solely on reports?

B….A very good point for a first post. And very true.

Randy you have some valid points as I don’t ever remember a year when so many big fish have been caught and are vulnerable due to the low water conditions. I also wonder if the MN and WI DNR’s have conducted or are working on a more current walleye/sauger study on pool 4.

What if going forward we as responsible fisherman recommend to both the Wisconsin and MN DNR to place a one fish over 20″ size limit in your daily catch from March 10 thru April 15 (approximate dates). This would allow only one fish over 20″ in your bag limit, protect the spawning fish, and ensure that we as fisherman are trying to protect a resource / fishery that we all love and appreciate.

Glenn Rengo

I can tell you this much, I’ve stayed off of pool 4 much of this spring because of how nuts it’s been up there. I’ve fished local pools more often. Even pool 9 has seen a huge increase in pressure this spring.

The bite has been tough for some down here, mostly because the fish were pretty spread out. I’ve had a pretty good spring, but have kept a total of 6 fish to clean for myself this year. This is completely by choice, I don’t like to freeze them and I don’t like to take them if my family isn’t going to eat them right away. That’s my personal choice, but I keep maybe 12-15 walleyes a year, and throw back hundreds of legals every year.

I don’t fault anybody for wanting to keep some to eat, but you do see the same people pounding the same bodies of water and keeping fish after fish after fish. I’m starting to wonder if many people eat meals of fresh fish 5+ days a week. I do what I can by explaining to people that I take with me, why I throw back the fish that I do, and if they want to keep some that’s fine, but I won’t just catch my limit to give to them as well. I’ve had guys who were upset because they had their 6, and I wouldn’t let them keep the fish that I caught and threw back as well. Ultimately, this is a resource, and if we don’t take care of it, it will deminish.

The only thing I see with your suggestion Glenn is that some of the best spawning production comes from those fish just under that 20″ threshold. As much as I hate to I’ll use Mille Lacs again as an example….what the natives want are those fish you’re referring to and look at what’s happened there. Now consider the type of day-in, day-out pressure the Red Wing dam gets regardless of high water or low water.

I think that the walleye/sauger populations are healthy right now. But with low water providing a barrel shoot for those persons who have no desire to help keep the numbers healthy, what will show up in 4 years from now? Its doubtful that one year will do much damage. What if we see 6 years of low water springs like we saw six years of excellent spawning conditions?

I’m sure this isn’t the first low water spring in history. I expect the year class to be less successful than most years, but it won’t be a total bust. It does make it easier to target fish because they stay in the main river, but there are tens of thousands of fish that don’t get caught. I can’t count the number of times I’ve dropped a camera down to see hundreds of walleye on a spot and fished the crap out of them to end up maybe catching a couple fish. For every fish that bites, there are probably a few hundred that don’t.

People need to respect the resource though. Like Marshall, I release the vast majority of fish that I catch. I will keep a couple here and there for a meal, but try not to put much in the freezer ever. They taste better fresh. Anything pre-spawn that is a female goes back if possible.

beardly wrote:

Social media has ruined the spawn; not the low water levels. Not sure why the majority feels the need to tell the world where and how the walleye bite is. Remember when people used to just fish and not hit the water based solely on reports?

Love your post! Some people only go and only do based of internet posts!

Social media……ruining fisheries one post at a time