Please Support the License Fee Increase

Otto they act that way in Iowa too. Like the DNR is some big power wielding force that has free will to screw with people. A HUGE percentage of people that work for the DNR are avid outdoors men and women… so they are intentionally screwing up their own hobbies? The issue is that people that DON’T work for the DNR begin getting involved and things get messy. Lake associations, insurance companies, ag organizations, tribal groups, and the list goes on. These groups have a lot of power and influence decision makers who inform the DNR how it will be… because the head of said organization was appointed by them… so they hold control over the DNR.

For example, the deer herd in Iowa. DNR biologists study harvest, population trends, etc to determine what the best management steps should be taken to manage the herd. Those recommendations are taken into consideration but ultimately how the herd is managed is NOT made final by the DNR but by people in Des Moines that DO NOT have a wildlife biology degree but DO HAVE insurance companies and ag organizations whining about too many deer. The DNR is then informed as to how deer management will be carried out… whether they agree or not. Thus, they get to carry out management they may or may not agree with and take the heat from the consumer (hunters) when things aren’t managed perfectly.

Look how many parties are involved in the ML dumpster fire. The DNR is simply the scapegoat for officials that have made poor decisions. But yeah… keep blaming them.

youngfry wrote:

Look how many parties are involved in the ML dumpster fire. The DNR is simply the scapegoat for officials that have made poor decisions. But yeah… keep blaming them.

I don’t think Ag and Insurance companies are steering the ML’s ship. Ya’ I think I’ll blame the DNR…RR

“Our goal is to have the longest fishing season possible while ensuring the conservation of the lake’s future walleye spawning stock,” DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr said. “We understand catch-and-release is a difficult option for anglers who enjoy a fish meal, but we are using everything in our management toolbox to ensure a heathy and plentiful walleye population for future fishing seasons.”

roosterrouster wrote:

Ya’ I think I’ll blame the DNR…

Me too.

The Mn DNR was ORDERED BY THE COURTS to implement a safe harvest level under tribal netting. Instead of doing the job, they took dart shots at limits and slot numbers until the system crashed. There was absolutely no scientific process used for the first 15 years. They failed. Now we pay?

-J.

How can I support more increases when we have a near billion dollar surplus?

kurtkid wrote:

How can I support more increases when we have a near billion dollar surplus?

Couple things……..I heard $1.6 billion, so I don’t think anybody really knows. What we do know is the day the surplus was announced St. Paul started spending it like drunken sailors on shore leave. So why not bank it? Lets say the number they “project” (these are estimates they use not cash in) is $1.6 billion. So they spend $1.6 billion. Then when the actual cash comes in lets say it’s only $1.2 billion. That leaves a $400 million dollar SHORTFALL that they need to raise taxes and fee’s to cover. See what happened there? They do this year after year. It’s a cottage industry in St. Paul. Spend more then you have and blame the other guy but then tap the taxpayers.

We need to let some programs crash and burn. I’m not smart enough to pick and choose which programs but it seems St.Paul isn’t either.

Dutchboy wrote:

We need to let some programs crash and burn.

We don’t worry about survival of the fittest any more. That’s why everything has warning labels on them to safeguard the stupid. But I do agree. There are way too many programs that are there just to buy votes and waste the tax payer’s money.

Good grief rooster… THAT’s what you took away from my post????? That ag and insurance companies were influencing ML management?

I don’t even… nevermind

youngfry wrote:

Good grief rooster… THAT’s what you took away from my post????? That ag and insurance companies were influencing ML management?

I don’t even… nevermind

Oh not at all…I just don’t look at the DNR as the “scapegoat” as you call it. In Iowa it’s the Ag and Insurance industry (really?). On ML’s it’s the DNR and that cannot be debated…RR

On ML’s it’s the DNR and that cannot be debated…RR

I’ll debate you. On Mille Lacs it is at a minimum what I posted prior.

– Tribes
– Resorts/Businesses
– Fishermen
– Social/Political Forces

The DNR has to do a balancing act between all these forces and probably more. They are definitely not running that $#!T show.

If the DNR had their way they would probably shut it down like Red but nobody will support that.

And in regards to Ag/Insurance, I have heard a lot of people blame the deer control strategy, mostly in WI on Insurance Companies. And I suppose the Ag industry would like less deer eating their crops. Not to mention their influence on water quality.

ottomatica wrote:

On ML’s it’s the DNR and that cannot be debated…RR

I’ll debate you. On Mille Lacs it is at a minimum what I posted prior.

– Tribes
– Resorts/Businesses
– Fishermen
– Social/Political Forces

The DNR has to do a balancing act between all these forces and probably more. They are definitely not running that $#!T show.

If the DNR had their way they would probably shut it down like Red but nobody will support that.

And in regards to Ag/Insurance, I have heard a lot of people blame the deer control strategy, mostly in WI on Insurance Companies. And I suppose the Ag industry would like less deer eating their crops. Not to mention their influence on water quality.

…I guess I should have said “that cannot be debated w/ me…”. Go ahead and have your beliefs on the situation. That’s fine. But I will always say that the DNR over see’s everyone of your thoughts above. Every one of them…RR

I will agree that the DNR doesn’t have all the power. I have seen lake associations turn down the DNR in musky stocking after being lied to by other groups with other interests. I am sure this happens all over with different lakes and the DNR trying their best to balance between them.

kurtkid wrote:

How can I support more increases when we have a near billion dollar surplus?

Problem is the DNR cannot access that surplus. Each agency only has access to the budget allocation from the past budgeting cycle.

Also, there is no guarantee the “surplus” will ever actually materialize because part of it is a forecast that could evaporate and never actually hit the state coffers. And then we have a legislature that either wants to spend it all or give it all away in tax breaks.

ottomatica wrote:

I’ll debate you. On Mille Lacs it is at a minimum what I posted prior.

– The Federal Government
– The Courts (State and Federal)
– The Indian Treaties
– Tribes
– Resorts/Businesses
– Fishermen
– Social/Political Forces
– Weather, climate, and natural reproduction variations

The DNR has to do a balancing act between all these forces and probably more. They are definitely not running that $#!T show.

This is the 100% pure truth even though a lot of people can’t accept the reality of it.

I added 4 key additional key drivers in bold that are also players in this Cluster #### that the DNR has ZERO control over.

How can anyone doubt that the DNR can be overruled at any point after last summer when Governor Trustfund got flipped by the big money resort lobby and tore up his own agreement on ML limits?

Anyone who believes that was Governor Trustfund caring about what anglers wanted is crazy, that was a 100% pure surrender to the resort owners and their State reps who will do anything to appease them.

Not only can the DNR NOT do whatever they want on ML, the can hardly do anything at all under their own authority because of how many other parties have the real power up there.

Grouse

…I guess I should have said “that cannot be debated w/ me…”. Go ahead and have your beliefs on the situation. That’s fine. But I will always say that the DNR over see’s everyone of your thoughts above. Every one of them…RR

What exactly do you think their end game is?

– Great additions Grouse. –

Lets throw this thread in the Mille Lacs category of this forum. Also lets add a category just called “DNR” so the bitching can take place there. While we are at it throw one up called “Dayton” too.

Now U be bitchin too….

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Looks familiar to me…..

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ottomatica wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Charles wrote:</div>
I wouldn’t mind the increase but the DNR has screwed up so bad for the fishing in this state it’s pathetic. Personally give mille lacs back to the tribe and we can buy tribe stamps like they do SD for fishing.

SD does that? I’ve always thought that would be a good idea but I also see a lot of guys wouldn’t do it on principle.

Mille Lacs is a political, social, economic and ecological mess. I’m glad I don’t have to lead that effort.

If the DNR wasn’t pulled in all of those directions the solution would be much easier. People act as if the DNR can do whatever they want. They can’t.

There are a few lakes over by Sisseton on the res, that you can fish if you have a special type of licenses.

– The Federal Government
– The Courts (State and Federal)
– The Indian Treaties
– Tribes
– Resorts/Businesses
– Fishermen
– Social/Political Forces
– Weather, climate, and natural reproduction variations

Please stop…Please. You peep’s that give our almighty DNR a break must have blinders on. The reg’s that our almighty DNR set up effect everyone of those above points. (except for weather climate and the such…Really thats a stretch!)

“Not only can the DNR NOT do whatever they want on ML, the can hardly do anything at all under their own authority because of how many other parties have the real power up there.”

Who’s authority made it a C/R lake this year (not to mention last year!). The Indians??? The resort owners??? The Fisherman??? The social/Political Forces??? The Federal Gov??? THE DNR DID !!!! I will re-post the quote for ya’ll that skimmed over it above…RR

“Our goal is to have the longest fishing season possible while ensuring the conservation of the lake’s future walleye spawning stock,” DNR Commissioner Tom Landwehr said. “We understand catch-and-release is a difficult option for anglers who enjoy a fish meal, but we are using everything in our management toolbox to ensure a heathy and plentiful walleye population for future fishing seasons.”

(“our” and “we” are the DNR…)

I guess you’re right. The DNR acted alone.

What’s your solution to Mille Lacs?

ottomatica wrote:

What’s your solution to Mille Lacs?

I’d think it would be a simple 3 step solution.

Step 1 – When things aren’t going well, blame it all on the DNR.

Step 2 – When anything improves, take full credit for having come up with all the right answers. The DNR, of course, would have had nothing to do with it.

Step 3 – If anything goes wrong under the brilliant new management system in the future, see Step 1.

After all, as anyone who’s never been in charge of anything before knows very well, every problem has a simple solution. It’s just that the people that are running the show are just too stupid to see it or too lazy to implement it.

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>ottomatica wrote:</div>
What’s your solution to Mille Lacs?

I’d think it would be a simple 3 step solution.

Step 1 – When things aren’t going well, blame it all on the DNR.

Step 2 – When anything improves, take full credit for having come up with all the right answers. The DNR, of course, would have had nothing to do with it.

Step 3 – If anything goes wrong under the brilliant new management system in the future, see Step 1.

After all, as anyone who’s never been in charge of anything before knows very well, every problem has a simple solution. It’s just that the people that are running the show are just too stupid to see it or too lazy to implement it.

Grouse

Nice job avoiding the commissioners own quote above. Geez open your eyes…

I had to scroll back up to the top to remember what this thread was about.

I’d also like to know what the DNR is currently doing to screw up Red, Winny, Leech, Rainy, The Rivers etc. They should be doing the same things up there too, right?

That 10 year Grouse cycle is also part of their master plans.

Still waiting on your Mille Lacs solution and the DNR’s end game, Rooster.

belletaine wrote:

I had to scroll back up to the top to remember what this thread was about.

Doesn’t take much to turn a thread into a Mille Lacs argument anymore does it

ottomatica wrote:

I’d also like to know what the DNR is currently doing to screw up Red, Winny, Leech, Rainy, The Rivers etc. They should be doing the same things up there too, right?

That 10 year Grouse cycle is also part of their master plans.

Still waiting on your Mille Lacs solution and the DNR’s end game, Rooster.

Not screwing up those lakes my friend. Never said they were. We were talking about Mille Lacs Lake, the one with nets in it during the spawn. The solution? I don’t have it. Not my job…

Here is what I will say though: 35 years ago when I used to go out in that lake with a 25hrs motor and a 16′ red Lund you could catch all the fish you wanted. More importantly you could catch all the classes of fish you wanted. Heck we threw back more fish than we kept! Enter the Treaty and thus the DNR enforced slots: Too many big fish and a netting program that took out 1-2 classes of fish per year (I’ll educate you here: The nets are meant to take out only a certain class of fish. Not 22″ fish and not 28″ fish and not 10″ fish. Only meant to take out a certain class of fish…). The fisherman were battling for that same class of fish as the nets were. Whats going to happen then? That’s an easy one…

Go to a resort and ask them. Go to the ones with literally thousands of hours on the lake. Ask them. Don’t take it from me. Go ask Twin Pines. Go ask any of the resorts that have launch services. They’ll tell you from the get go that it all started with the DNR and THEIR drawn up slots. They drew them up. Not the Governor or the Native American’s or the weather patterns (that one still confuses me Grouse???).

The netting isn’t going away. Fine good n dandy…But the DNR has dropped the ball when they are catering to the Natives still being able to harvest fish with their nets and unless you have Native blood coursing through your body the walleye that you gut hook feeds the gulls (Why our DNR doesn’t make barbless hooks mandatory I will never know. I use em’ all Summer long and RARELY do i kill a fish…).

Done beating this drum. I’ll move along but let’s be clear: The almighty DNR is steering this ship and they have failed miserably…RR

Oh…I support the increases. Hopefully it puts more CO’s on the water and in the woods…

See, you’re blaming the nets. Definitely the DNR’s fault that’s happening. They have 100% control over that. They could stop that today.

ottomatica wrote:

See, you’re blaming the nets. Definitely the DNR’s fault that’s happening. They have 100% control over that. They could stop that today.

You’re a little slow today so I’ll try again: The netting isn’t going away. It’s the DNR’s job to come up with slots that work for the lake. So far they have failed miserably with the slots they have come up with. A lake that used to produce so much is now a C/R lake. Get it now? Can’t explain it any clearer for you. Go sit at a bar on the lake and start asking questions. You’ll learn …RR