Pete Rose RIP

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/41538454/pete-rose-all-mlb-hits-leader-dies-83

Holy cow! A lot lately. Dekembe mutumbo and now Pete rose. Lots of lost heros for a lot of people.

and Kris Kristofferson

Pete Rose was the biggest jackass ever to put on a MLB uniform. He was gambling on baseball, got caught, and instead of apologizing, he tried to win a PR battle and force his way into the HoF. How’d that work out for you Charlie Hustle?

Rose will always have a * next to his name. His own arrogance kept him out of the HoF.

The question now is, do his 4,256 hits override his arrogance/jackass-ery? His career stats can’t be ignored.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Pete Rose was the biggest jackass ever to put on a MLB uniform. He was gambling on baseball, got caught, and instead of apologizing, he tried to win a PR battle and force his way into the HoF. How’d that work out for you Charlie Hustle?

Rose will always have a * next to his name. His own arrogance kept him out of the HoF.

Probably all true but he could hit baseball like no other.

The biggest though? There have been some real jackasses in MLB.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Pete Rose was the biggest jackass ever to put on a MLB uniform. He was gambling on baseball, got caught, and instead of apologizing, he tried to win a PR battle and force his way into the HoF. How’d that work out for you Charlie Hustle?

Rose will always have a * next to his name. His own arrogance kept him out of the HoF.

Sounds like the exact personality the games needs right now.

John Bonnes gave the best explanation of Rose’s situation this morning on KFAN. I don’t think anyone doubts the on-field, iconic career of Rose. When asked if Rose should have been put in the hall at some point, Bonnes didn’t even hesitate to say “no.”

I’m sure many of you have heard something similar before, but Rose crossing the line he did compromised the integrity of the game. Others mentioned that the HOF has some steriod users, alcoholics, domestic abusers, etc. Bonnes replied that, as awful as it is, domestic abusers harm the victim and maybe some others in their circle. If someone gambles on games they’re involved in and it compromises the integrity of the game, it harms the whole game itself.

Greenhorn wrote:

The question now is, do his 4,256 hits override his arrogance/jackass-ery? His career stats can’t be ignored.

^This^
He was a deeply flawed man, but best hitter in the game’s history, followed by another DEEPLY DEEPLY flawed man – Ty Cobb. HOF exclusion means nothing to me, if fact, it makes the story more intriguing and human. The guy could ball!

The whole admitting to having sexual relations with a girl who was 15 at the time (while he was well into his 30’s) but stating that “she said she was 16” which was the age of consent at that time in Ohio kind of turned me off to Pete Rose.

Pete Rose is another chapter in the classic debate of whether or not character should factor into HOF nominations and whatnot across sports.

Im thinking alot more guys have gambled besides him. Didnt they say he never bet on his team to lose so whats the difference. Bet on them to lose so you have an intentional error or as a manager switch pitchers ya I get it. Bet on yourself to win whats the harm you try harder.

JEREMY wrote:

Im thinking alot more guys have gambled besides him. Didnt they say he never bet on his team to lose so whats the difference. Bet on them to lose so you have an intentional error or as a manager switch pitchers ya I get it. Bet on yourself to win whats the harm you try harder.

I guess if I’m gonna put money on my team to win I’m probably going to put as much effort into that game as I can. That could mean burning through your bullpen a little more even if it affects your upcoming games just because you want to win today simply because you have money on it. Other in-game decisions could also be swayed just to win today but affect other upcoming games that you don’t have money on.

There are just as many reporters, Fans, player, coaches, Ect. That feel what he did should not keep him out of the HOF. I’m in that group. Betting on games that you don’t have anything to do with the outcome doesn’t bother me at all. Now if they can prove he bet on his own team and did anything to effect the outcome of that game is a different matter. I don’t think that has ever been proven. The HOF should be about a players playing career and nothing else. His #’s speak for themself on that. To me it was sad to see him die without ever getting the honor. Just my .02 worth

Greenhorn wrote:

The question now is, do his 4,256 hits override his arrogance/jackass-ery? His career stats can’t be ignored.

It is just like Barry Bonds and all the players who hold records from the juiced era. The record is the record, but nobody will ever even pretend that they aren’t tainted.

Rose was a classic “it’s all about me” d1ck. His deliberate plowing over of Ray Fosse in a meaningless all star game was typical of his me, me, me attitude and lack of respect for the game.

IMO the HOF is for memorializing the game, it’s different eras and history. Baseball history is not complete without including Rose, or the steroid users for that matter. I think waiting until Rose passed is punishment enough, and he should be enshrined. And don’t get me started on the Baseball Writers of America and their love of the power to be the gate keepers of the HOF.

BigWerm wrote:

And don’t get me started on the Baseball Writers of America and their love of the power to be the gate keepers of the HOF.

I very much agree with that, it’s turned HOF voting a whole different entity in itself.

BigWerm wrote:

IMO the HOF is for memorializing the game, it’s different eras and history. Baseball history is not complete without including Rose, or the steroid users for that matter. I think waiting until Rose passed is punishment enough, and he should be enshrined. And don’t get me started on the Baseball Writers of America and their love of the power to be the gate keepers of the HOF.

If I was in his family, I’d tell the HOF to kiss our @$$ if they tried to somehow enshrine him post-mortem.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Holy cow! A lot lately. Dekembe mutumbo and now Pete rose. Lots of lost heros for a lot of people.

He was for sure not a hero. I would say people like Pat Tillman are hero’s. Rose was great ball player horrible person.

Mid 90’s, me and my buddy were standing in the MGM sportsbook in Vegas during a October midweek evening, place was near empty and felt someone come up right next to us. We look over and it’s Pete Rose. He asks who we’re taking in the Cards/Braves playoff game. Maddux was pitching for the Braves that night and I told Pete I was taking the Cards. He snickered and just walked off…I got the last laugh though as Maddux and the Braves ended up losing that game..

Think about the number of hits he had. Willie Castro led the Twins this year with 558 at bats. Rose had a career .303 average. Castro with that amount of at bats would half to hit .303 for 25 full seasons and begin another.

The good person bad person has room in a lot of discussions. It should not matter in the HOF. There are a ton of HOF players in every sport that has a ton of people who were not good people and some who were total A-holes. #’s are all that should matter when it comes to the HOF.

Simply… Pete Rose the Player is a shoe in HOF’er. Pete Rose the Manager, maybe. If every player in any hall of fame were kept out for their sexual tendencies/misdeeds… they would be empty. Just sayin’

(ironic story, I met Pete in a casino restaurant.. on the Vegas Strip)

Pete Played the the game 100% correctly!! 110% effort at all times. If you didn’t like 110% or you were scared of it, then step aside. The all star catcher did everything he could to prevent him from scoring in an exhibition game… If you don’t like what Pete did then you should be upset that the catcher didn’t step aside…. no one wants to see injury… 110% effort sometimes produces injury.

Pete Played the game of life very poorly. IMO

Broke a cardinal rule and got booted for life. Life is over, HOF induction is earned, join plenty of other POS’s in Cooperstown is the right move. IMO

If I was in his family, I’d tell the HOF to kiss our @$$ if they tried to somehow enshrine him post-mortem.

100% agree.

fishthumper wrote:

There are just as many reporters, Fans, player, coaches, Ect. That feel what he did should not keep him out of the HOF. I’m in that group. Betting on games that you don’t have anything to do with the outcome doesn’t bother me at all. Now if they can prove he bet on his own team and did anything to effect the outcome of that game is a different matter. I don’t think that has ever been proven. The HOF should be about a players playing career and nothing else. His #’s speak for themself on that. To me it was sad to see him die without ever getting the honor. Just my .02 worth

I think he belongs in the HOF but this is from The Sporting News:

Rose denied any wrongdoing, but the investigation found that the “accumulated testimony of witnesses, together with the documentary evidence and telephone records reveal extensive betting activity by Pete Rose in connection with professional baseball and, in particular, Cincinnati Reds games, during the 1985, 1986, and 1987 baseball seasons.”

Pat K wrote:

Rose denied any wrongdoing, but the investigation found that the “accumulated testimony of witnesses, together with the documentary evidence and telephone records reveal extensive betting activity by Pete Rose in connection with professional baseball and, in particular, Cincinnati Reds games, during the 1985, 1986, and 1987 baseball seasons.”

I didn’t think they ever proved that he was betting on any games that he could effect the outcome of. I could be wrong on this. Even if he did and it was proven, I still don’t think it should effect his entry as a player. Manager maybe but not as a player.

He’d probably be in the HOF if he hadn’t lied about the gambling. Maybe he’ll eventaully get in the HOF but the satisfaction that he would of known getting in while he was alive is gone. The punishment seems cruel on some levels but in a lot of ways, he did it to himself. He should have fessed up early on instead of denying the gambling over and over.
In some ways I feel sorry for Pete Rose.

My only comment on this is the MLB seems hypocritical now that they embrace sports betting by taking sponsorship money from on-line gambling sites. They also allow players to make endorsement money from same companies. I will have to assume when they open the new park in Las Vegas, patrons will probably be able to place bets at the ball park. Too much money to turn their backs on.

-J.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/pete-rose-gambling-scandal-mlb-hits-record-banned-betting/bef86ec38adf1cb165801853

That link is to an article that’s a pretty quick good and summarizes basically all you need to know about the situation.

Here’s food for thought. Rose had a lifetime ban. His life is over. Was there any mention of a posthumous induction to the hall of fame in the original punishment? As Mr. Jordan stated, baseball is embracing gambling now and it seems hypocritical at best. I believe that had he just admitted to gambling in the beginning, he would be in the HOF now.

I only know him as the Reds manager with a bad haircut so I don’t care either way. But you can’t deny his stats. You also can’t deny that Sosa and McGwire, juiced to the gills, probably saved baseball since the sport was dwindling in popularity after the strike season. How many lives did Lance Armstrong save by selling yellow bracelets for cancer research even though he was 90% EPO at the time? The ethical and moral versus “on field” accomplishments has always been at the forefront of modern sports. We just don’t seem to have any consistency in deciding who gets a pass and who doesn’t.