Paddleshare?

Kayak thread reminded me of something I’ve been meaning to complain about. At hidden falls (and also on the upper miss by north mpls) they recently introduced self-serve kayak rentals thru the national parks service. So now we get people with zero river experience out paddling kayaks amongst barges, party cruise paddle boats, houseboats and yachts, jet skis, and of course us lowly fisherpeople.

And for safety reasons they instruct the kayaks to hug the banks… right where I’ll be trying to troll all summer. I seriously hope this doesn’t get popular. And I hope nobody gets hurt but in this part of the river it just seems like they’re asking for trouble.

I hear you. Living in Westen Wi I like to get in a little stream trout fishing. No shortage of “paddlers” on a favorite stream. Sometimes you just have to take a “lunch break” to let things rest.

I share the water with Kayaks and Canoe’s up in VNP. Often it’s scouts or groups so there are several traveling together the same direction heading to the same place. While annoying at times I also realize I don’t own the water. Being a boat it’s far easier for me to maneuver then it is for those kids. I also know generally the area’s they travel and can avoid them if I choose to.

I’m thinking the same thing can exist on the river.It won’t take you long to figure out where most of them will go. You can find trolling runs elsewhere. Also very few of those people will be out early in the day. Most won’t show up until close to noon.

I like em personally. Been dealing with em for couple years now on north mpls stretch. Not to hard to go around, chatted with more than a few on their experience and if I was catching anything. They are pretty silent so it’s not like they’re going to scare the fish, and on a trolling run they will steer out your way if in a game of who is gonna move first.

Our waterways need more popularity, it helps promote better awareness to many of the issues we as anglers face. We reel in a condom stuck to our lure, whatever, it happens on the river, kayak dude or gal gets a condom stuck to their fancy sandal or paddle, I guarantee the complaint and outcry will reach alot further than ours.

It’s a slippery slope though. I fear the day when they become too much priority and start no wake zones on many parts of the river. That, would suck.

nhamm wrote:

I like em personally. Been dealing with em for couple years now on north mpls stretch. Not to hard to go around, chatted with more than a few on their experience and if I was catching anything. They are pretty silent so it’s not like they’re going to scare the fish, and on a trolling run they will steer out your way if in a game of who is gonna move first.

I’d argue p2 is a different beast than the upper Miss these days. Because of commercial traffic in the channel the ‘yaks are instructed not to leave the shoreline on the St. Paul side of the river. I’m not gonna play a game of chicken with a group of inexperienced paddlers, so I’ll be the one to bring my line in and go around ’em. More than likely I’ll stick to the other side of the river on weekends, but that kind of sucks because it’s basically eliminating 50% of the water I frequently fish. I really don’t mean to whine. I completely see the benefits and acknowledge their right to the water is just as legit as mine. My primary point was meant to be that this seems like a curious stretch of water to invite inexperienced paddlers.

I will also admit I may possibly have some anger bubbling inside me toward paddlers on the river because of a company called Minnesota Adventure Co that really tested my patience last year. These guys bring groups of 10-15 people in a big van down to Fort Snelling where they launch in the MN River and paddle to downtown St. Paul. Very similar route but starts on the other side of Pike Island. My problem with them is that they occupy the ramp for 15-20 minutes or more! They unload all the yaks at the bottom of the ramp and then proceed to give their safety schpeel and teach people how to paddle, how to wear a freaking life vest, etc.

Get up earlier.

Tell em to move or you’ll complain to the parks department, they are a private entity, at the launch. They see me and move everything soon enough at Boom.

Why do you care about their safety? They’re all grown people who can make their own decisions. Look at it as better opportunity to rescue a gal in a bikini one hot sunny day

Plenty of room for them to go, keep your trolling line and they’ll find the shoreline, it’s not a matter of politeness, but dang I’m in a kayak and he’s got a big heavy boat.

Seems they are all out there to have a good time. A smile, wave, how u doing, if you could watch out for my line and everything turns out good.

As soon as one of them gets hit and drowns the service will be stopped.

saugeye-steve wrote:

As soon as one of them gets hit and drowns the service will be stopped.

Or motorized boats will be banned

nhamm wrote:

Or motorized boats will be banned

I’d think there are some companies with dock terminals up the MN river that would have something to say about that.

nhamm wrote:

Tell em to move or you’ll complain to the parks department, they are a private entity, at the launch. They see me and move everything soon enough at Boom.

Oh, I’ve asked. “We have every right to be here” is the response I got.

I sent an email to the rangers at Ft Snelling State Park, hope they’re willing to help police this tour company a bit. Tying up the boat ramp for 20 minutes is unacceptable. The fact that it’s a business exploiting the ramp for profit ticks me off.

pool2fool wrote:

Tying up the boat ramp for 20 minutes is unacceptable. The fact that it’s a business exploiting the ramp for profit ticks me off.

Is this a joke?

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>pool2fool wrote:</div>
Tying up the boat ramp for 20 minutes is unacceptable. The fact that it’s a business exploiting the ramp for profit ticks me off.

Is this a joke?

Nope. This is their cover photo on their FB page. This is AFTER they’ve gone thru the process of unloading 10 yaks from a trailer, distributed life vests and paddles etc.

EDIT: I guess I can’t tell if you’re asking if I’m joking that this is happening, or joking about being upset by it. But the answer is the same either way.

I’ll clarify that I’d be upset even if it was just another angler occupying the ramp for that long as well. But the fact that they’re generating $600 in revenue while standing on the public ramp and not launching, makes me a little saltier.

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I hate to say it, but that is some gross entitlement by you P2F. YOUR time is so precious, that YOU shouldn’t have to wait a WHOLE 20 minutes to launch YOUR boat. How dare these other people enjoy YOUR river, or affect YOUR trolling run. And that a local small business should profit a miniscule amount getting people out on the river who otherwise likely would not be, while inconveniencing YOU makes it so much worse. Literally shaking my head bud, I’m disappointed a fellow angler would take such an entitled attitude towards others enjoying what we enjoy so much.

^ Hes being facetious-Right?

saugeye-steve wrote:

I’m disappointed a fellow angler would take such an entitled attitude towards others enjoying what we enjoy so much.

I dont enjoy tying up the ramp at all while others are waiting.

Sorry you see it that way werm. I certainly don’t but if that’s the way you choose to interpret my frustration than so be it. Feel like you’re creating an awful lot of imaginary sub-text here but hey that’s the the Internet.

It’s not about ME. It’s about courtesy and etiquette. Do a quick search on kayak etiquette at boat ramps and you’ll quickly learn most paddlers see it my way. There is simply no use for occupying a loading zone unless you’re actively loading or unloading a boat. If I was sitting on the ramp rigging my boat or tying lures while others were waiting I would expect the same frustration from them. And if one of them politely approached to ask for room I can guarantee you I would be apologetic and move ASAP. These guys told me to pound sand.

Had a group of paddlers early one morning at hidden falls with their canoes strewn all over the ramp. I just started backing down and got about a foot from one of them and stopped and asked if they cared to move. One of them got a little pissy but I just said we all have a right to use the ramp and all I needed was one side. They moved, I launched, and we were all good.

Werm, I hope you are being facetious. Everyone has a right but you wouldn’t back the boat down and put the truck in park on the ramp. It’s all about common courtesy.

One funny story about paddlers….my brother and I were on p2 trolling near fort Snelling. We were wrapping up when 2 canoe loads of u of m girls coming rolling down. He was recently divorced and I was giving him a hard time that he had no shot. Well, he hooks into and lands a decent walleye and they give him an ovation. They then dump the canoe and we have to go help them get situated. He still had no shot but the timing was awesome. Maybe I have a soft spot in my heart for paddlers.

Matt Moen wrote:

Maybe I have a soft spot in my heart for paddlers.

Great story, but I think you have a soft spot in your heart for college girls.

The boat ramp is like the toilet. There are 2 acceptable things to do while you are there, and you have no reason to sit there any longer than it takes to do those 2 simple things.

I don’t care if you’re on a kayak tour or a cabin cruiser: $hit or get off the pot!

Further downriver on Pool 2, the boat ramp even smells like a toilet

Not being facetious. I agree tying up the ramp unnecessarily is not cool. But the quotes below just rubbed me the wrong way. I’ve been delayed by others while launching for 15-20 minutes many times, for a wide variety of reasons from guys fishing alone parked a long way away, people struggling to load in current, mechanical failures, Boy Scout troops on canoe trips, boats frozen to the trailer, just a busy day at the ramp, and yes even commercial kayak groups. That is just what happens at boat ramps. I try to help them when I can, but to roast a small business that is helping people enjoy the outdoors is in very poor taste imo. Especially when these are typically groups of kids or adults who don’t typically get to experience what I love, we should be encouraging them not whining to anyone that will listen about a lousy 15-20 minutes, particularly when there are plenty of ramps on P2 that they don’t unload kayaks at.

I think we are about the same age P2F, and the way society is heading there are less and less of us who enjoy the outdoors. If we aren’t encouraging others and growing participation, someday the ramps will be empty, and once they are empty there will be little reason to fund their maintenance and all the other things that enable us to enjoy our hobby. Sorry for the rant, just thought it needed to be said.

pool2fool wrote:

they instruct the kayaks to hug the banks… right where I’ll be trying to troll all summer. I seriously hope this doesn’t get popular

pool2fool wrote:

I’ll be the one to bring my line in and go around ’em. More than likely I’ll stick to the other side of the river on weekends, but that kind of sucks because it’s basically eliminating 50% of the water I frequently fish.

pool2fool wrote:

My problem with them is that they occupy the ramp for 15-20 minutes or more!

pool2fool wrote:

Tying up the boat ramp for 20 minutes is unacceptable. The fact that it’s a business exploiting the ramp for profit ticks me off.

P2F, I had the same feelings as BigWerm when I read your posts. Before this thread I’ve always agreed with basically every post you’ve made that I’ve read, so I was quite surprised to read your thoughts regarding this topic. Perhaps your true thoughts aren’t as harsh as the words make it seem, but I agree with what Werm had to say. I know you’re better than that, P2F. Don’t let the mild inconvenience of the kayakers make your day on the water bitter. Life’s too short and the outdoors is too special to allow that junk thinking.

BigWerm wrote:

I think we are about the same age P2F, and the way society is heading there are less and less of us who enjoy the outdoors. If we aren’t encouraging others and growing participation, someday the ramps will be empty, and once they are empty there will be little reason to fund their maintenance and all the other things that enable us to enjoy our hobby. Sorry for the rant, just thought it needed to be said.

I really agree with everything you’re saying here.

As to the rest — I think this is just how most people talk? From now on should I edit all of my posts to remove all use of first-person pronouns? Why would I speak for anybody but myself? I just think you’re nit-picking here, but that’s just my opinion.

blank wrote:

P2F, I had the same feelings as BigWerm when I read your posts. Before this thread I’ve always agreed with basically every post you’ve made that I’ve read, so I was quite surprised to read your thoughts regarding this topic. Perhaps your true thoughts aren’t as harsh as the words make it seem, but I agree with what Werm had to say. I know you’re better than that, P2F. Don’t let the mild inconvenience of the kayakers make your day on the water bitter. Life’s too short and the outdoors is too special to allow that junk thinking.

See the bold in your quote, that’s my thought at least. I was a lot less upset about the mild inconvenience than I was about treating like a jerk by the tour guides after politely asking them if they might move aside to allow me to load my boat.

I’ve never been to this launch in question, but in a lot of places I’ve seen, they have a separate kayak/canoe launching area, often with their own dock. It sounds like these ramps along the river need the same thing. Not only for the private companies but for anyone launching a non-trailered boat.

The ramps need to stay open.

I’m the opposite in that P2F and I seldom agree. I do in this case sense his frustration more then anger I think. Maybe I’m reading him wrong. I think his main complaint is it takes the group to long to launch. If so we have all been there. Pull in behind the once a year boater who has to unload his whole house into the boat while on the ramp only to find out the battery is dead. So there is guilt on both sides. The group could and should make a better effort to keep the yaks off to the side while passing out life jackets and instructions. P2F also could just whip out his phone and make a couple of posts here.

The thing I found the weirdest was it seemed he was bothered that the group makes money doing this. Their taxes pay as much for that ramp as ours does. I think both sides can handle things better in the future but if not so be it.

Fair enough P2F, but your first post and the first part of your second post doesn’t mention your issues at the ramp with the tour guides. Good fishing!

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I too become frustrated at ramps (not with kayakers though) in certain situations. If it is a situation where a group is physically unloading kayaks and is having trouble, I’d gladly jump out and help them calmly to expedite the process. I often do the same when someone is struggling to load or unload a boat and wish them the best of luck and a safe trip.

IF the group of kayakers is posing for pictures, talking, going through safety checks, etc. then I’d be considerably less patient. The same can be said for landings when the family backs the boat to the edge of the water and then loads coolers, the dog, chairs, floaties, rods, bait, grandma, and whatever else.

Kayak Launch Instructions – Upper Mississippi

P2F, I guess I’m completely with ya on the ramp part, not sure why anyone would not get annoyed when people are holding up a ramp when they actually aren’t loading or un loading.

pool2fool wrote:

and then proceed to give their safety schpeel and teach people how to paddle, how to wear a freaking life vest, etc.

I hope you have expressed your concern to the company before the season starts again. Seems they would be able to go over this with their instructors in preseason training.

nhamm wrote:

I hope you have expressed your concern to the company before the season starts again. Seems they would be able to go over this with their instructors in preseason training.

I did send a friendly email to the owners/guides. Fingers crossed but no response.

Group hug everyone (even you @dutchboy — I think I agreed with one of your posts recently but I was too busy whining and being entitled to acknowledge it )

I need to complain less. I can own that. I didn’t do myself any favors by adding a completely separate rant about the kayak tour group, which has nothing to do with paddleshare except that they’re both kayak groups.

My points, without the entitlement and whining:

1. Paddleshare: Sending inexperienced kayakers onto a river teeming with commercial traffic and pleasure craft seems ill-advised. They have every right to be there and I’ll be as courteous to them as I am to every other boat I meet. The fact that they’ll hug the shorelines will affect fishing in general, but I realize we don’t have any greater right to fish than they do to paddle.

2. Ramp etiquette: If someone is struggling on the ramp I have always offered to help. I’ve been on the receiving end of that, trying to load up in the eddy at hidden falls, and I sure appreciated the hand. If someone is blocking the entire ramp and not actively engaged in launching or loading, I don’t think its unreasonable to politely ask if they can make room. If they refuse and treat me like a jerk, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call them out for that.

3. The money thing. I can see how my comments would rub some people the wrong way. Honestly, if they were courteous I wouldn’t have probably thought twice about that aspect, so I probably should’ve just stuck to the primary concern — that they use the ramp responsibly.