Pack of Wolves .

FinnyDinDin wrote:

Don in 2018 the island was down to two inbreed wolves. They relocated a bunch because the wolves were about to die off altogether. That’s not a lack of prey or too many predators problem.

Your knowledge is dated.

Yes it is dated , the point is man intervened on the island ! As it stands right now man is legally not allowed to intervene in Minnesota or Wisconsin . Michigan ought to open up moose hunting on the island ? As it stands now Isle royal will always be the test tube for them to manipulate . How many years before the situation is back to 2 wolves ? Or the pack flourishes and they kill off what’s left of the moose ? LOL guess then they will be hauling moose in the for the wolves to eat .

Delete

FinnyDinDin wrote:

Don in 2018 the island was down to two inbreed wolves. They relocated a bunch because the wolves were about to die off altogether. That’s not a lack of prey or too many predators problem.

Your knowledge is dated.

What was the problem then? If it wasn’t lack of prey how did the wolf population dwindle to just two animals?
In case you didn’t know, when prey is scarce wild k9’s have smaller litters which in turn increases the chance of inbreeding and results in less wolves on the landscape.

My original point was don’s example of wolves eating themselves out of house and home on isle royale is simply wrong. And an island is the worst example to use when talking about predator prey relationships. If you know anything about science you would know that.

As I mentioned I am for wolf season because they are overpopulated.

grubson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>FinnyDinDin wrote:</div>
If it wasn’t lack of prey how did the wolf population dwindle to just two animals?

Inbreeding. Lots of articles on the subject if you want to educate yourself. Pretty interesting stuff.

My favorite was them paying big money to bring wolves and new genetics out to the island and then as soon as the ice froze some ran back to mainland.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

My original point was don’s example of wolves eating themselves out of house and home on isle royale is simply wrong. And an island is the worst example to use when talking about predator prey relationships. If you know anything about science you would know that.

As I mentioned I am for wolf season because they are overpopulated.

Not specifically stating which , but i was relating to an article i read and did not communicate that . An island off the coast of North Carolina went off limits to deer hunting due to pressure from anti hunting groups . The end result was all the deer died because of starvation . They increased to the point of eating themselves out of house and home . Prior to the antis shutting down deer hunting on the island it was kept in check with local hunting , and the herd thrived . Isle Royal is 893 square miles in size, not sure with .05 moose per square mile at the highest recorded level of 2060 moose could in effect do the same thing without any predators ie wolves or hunting by man ?

Pretty good video on the state of wolves and deer in northern MN by NBC News out of Duluth.

Good clip Gimruis . I concur winter severity does play major roll . Yet what deer are left are made wolf poop making a deer population recovery even that much harder . I believe what mature bucks are also made easy targets after the rut . These deer are worn down and and a combining of winter severity and wolf predation are a double whammy . Right now there is not a thing we can do about winter severity . But we can mitigate the damage done by wolves to the deer that are left .

Don Meier wrote:

Isle Royal is 893 square miles in size, not sure with .05 moose per square mile at the highest recorded level of 2060 moose could in effect do the same thing without any predators ie wolves or hunting by man ?

There’s a lot going on here, maybe double check the math. And then the sources of these “facts”

tswoboda wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Don Meier wrote:</div>
Isle Royal is 893 square miles in size, not sure with .05 moose per square mile at the highest recorded level of 2060 moose could in effect do the same thing without any predators ie wolves or hunting by man ?

There’s a lot going on here, maybe double check the math. And then the sources of these “facts”

Seeing i was called on old data i posted 2060 moose as of 2019 Yet look at these numbers right from the National Park website . As wolf numbers increased in those years moose numbers dropped like a rock.In this day and age when scientist cannot agree what causes or how CWD is spread , i have little confidence the DNR knows the true number of wolves roaming the landscape.
1995 16 2400
1996 22 1200
1997 24 500

No I was just really curious how you ended up at .05 moose/sq mile.

And that 893 sq miles for a 50 mile long x 5 mile wide island doesn’t add up. Or are you including all of the water of lake superior that’s included in the national park area? The actual land part (ya know where the moose can live) of the islands has to be closer to 250 sq miles.

Why are we even talking about Isle Royale

Because Isle Royal is a heavily studied contained environment used to study causality, and there seems to be a lot of people who are pretty sure they are scientists.

tswoboda wrote:

Why are we even talking about Isle Royale

The only reason I can think of is because its a contained environment and its heavily studied to show the relationships between predator and prey.

Like a King Size test tube

Riverrat wrote:

Because Isle Royal is a heavily studied contained environment used to study causality, and there seems to be a lot of people who are pretty sure they are scientists.

You don’t need to be a scientist to have the common sense to realize it is a poor predator/prey example to use in the discussion of having a wolf season.

Due to a lack of genetic diversity the wolves became inbred. They became so inferior due to inbreeding that they could no longer take down their prey and they were starving to death even though they were surrounded by a plethora of prey. The government decided they were going to play God and they trapped and brought more wolves out to the island.

There is nothing natural about the predator and prey scenario on the island. This isn’t that complicated of stuff.

tswoboda wrote:

No I was just really curious how you ended up at .05 moose/sq mile.

And that 893 sq miles for a 50 mile long x 5 mile wide island doesn’t add up. Or are you including all of the water of lake superior that’s included in the national park area? The actual land part (ya know where the moose can live) of the islands has to be closer to 250 sq miles.

Why are we even talking about Isle Royale

Yup you are correct , they list the whole park . Which i did not know includes the water

Caught on Ring doorbell! Took a walk today more wolf tracks than any other critter !

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A settlement yesterday paves the way for removing gray wolves off the endangered species list in the near future. The US Fish & Wildlife has already attempted to remove them twice since 2012, and their populations are stable in the Great Lakes region, so its only a matter of time before they are removed and given state control.

The settlement agreement, filed Wednesday, gives the USFWS two years to develop a draft gray wolf recovery plan, unless the agency finds that “such a plan will not promote the conservation of the species.”

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/12/14/feds-agree-to-create-national-recovery-plan-for-gray-wolves

My wife told me on Monday that she took the ankle biter out at 10PM on Sunday (on a leash thankfully) and while they were out a wolf right behind our house let out a huge howl. The dog froze and wouldnt move she had to drag him in the house.
Fast forward to last night I was leaving the Board of Directors meeting at Upper Deck and saw something out in the field. Sure enough, a wolf. This was about 700 yards from my house so possibly the same wolf, but there have been at least 2 different ones spotted because one is black.

I really like wolves and am glad they are around. They belong here. That said I am all for a DNR managed hunting season. I always feel in the middle on this issue.

crawdaddy wrote:

I really like wolves and am glad they are around. They belong here. That said I am all for a DNR managed hunting season. I always feel in the middle on this issue.

This is correct. I don’t think wolves need to be eliminated but they NEED to be managed to a REASONABLE number.
Right now they have no fear of anyone or anything.

Exactly. It’s still spooky having a close encounter but I like my chances with a wolf just moving on vs a cougar.