Pack of Wolves .

walleye216 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Don Meier wrote:</div>
“Idaho’s laws on wolves and Minnesota’s are quite different. Let’s not confuse the two here”. Prior to 2011 there was no season wolf season in Idaho . At that time we all were on the same page . Then it was turned over to the state to manage . When politics and inaction prevent particularly dangerous animals from being regulated , you can bet people will take matters into their own hands especially when it comes to protecting what’s theirs. The wolf right now is not regulated in Wisconsin and having their way with livestock , pets and whitetail deer . One study showed an adult wolf ate 27 deer in one year . Does not take long to decimate a white population or Elk population . There are areas in Wyoming that are completely wiped out of some high country elk herds . They had killed elk and never feed on them . They practice kill to train their pups. The precious elk reintro in Wisconsin also has felt the insatiable appetite of wolves . There was a point in the introduction when there was zero growth in the herd because wolves were killing pregnant cows. Major donors to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation were considerably upset to find out the Elk were being slaughtered , the same elk that cost millions to establish and monitor. The state of Wisconsin currently regulates every animal and fish that calls it home here ! Except for Canis lupus , that is just not right period .

I guess you are reaching now to make pro-poaching argument seem acceptable. I just hope you don’t hunt or fish anywhere near me.

Says the guy who has never had a lone wolf 2 ft from your home,s entrance door ! A black lab who almost killed himself trying to get at him ! Or had a close neighbor have 2 cattle killed , or another close neighbor who had 3 lamas killed and a horse ! Another neighbor had his dog killed on his front porch while it was tied up ! The WDNR wanted give my neighbor who lost milk production a paper to shoot a wolf on cite ! Is that poaching ? Is it ? He declined it anyway . He told the DNR rep he did not need a paper to shoot a wolf around his cattle .But he would take a paper allowing him to drive with a loaded gun in his truck . The DNR REP said can’t do that . You can disparage people all you want , that’s on you no one else .

Timmy wrote:

I live rurally, have dogs, and wouldn’t hesitate to protect them. I guess that makes me a poacher too?

Yes, under the rule of law as it stands, that is illegal. The only reason you can shoot one at this time in MN or WI is to protect human life.

However, I can’t say I blame you. I am a dog owner myself and if a wolf is an imminent threat to my dog, I’d do all I can to resist, up to and including deadly force. Deal with the consequences later and save the dog.

Nothing is going to happen here until they are removed from the EDL. I’ve stated this before, but the US Fish & Wildlife will eventually remove them again in the Great Lakes Region and I would expect it to end up in court again. I just hope that its not overturned for a third time. We’ve clearly demonstrated that they have re-established population goals in the area and should be state managed. No one here is denying that.

The problem is that when it comes to these kind of cases the court system is broken.
The animal rights people are making way too much money off of the poor wolf thing to allow them to be delisted.
So they shop around for a judge that will give them what they want.
All of these cases should be sent into a random draw for which judge hears the case, but as it is I doubt anything changes until the wolves spread into the suburbs and start eating people’s pets.

Tom schmitt wrote:

The problem is that when it comes to these kind of cases the court system is broken.
The animal rights people are making way too much money off of the poor wolf thing to allow them to be delisted.
So they shop around for a judge that will give them what they want.
All of these cases should be sent into a random draw for which judge hears the case, but as it is I doubt anything changes until the wolves spread into the suburbs and start eating people’s pets.

Good example is the Center for Biological Diversity is a prime example of animal rights extremist basically they want man eliminated off the landscape ! During an interview with the leader he was asked ,so you want want to create hugh blocks of land only for animals only zero humans , so what is your purpose ? Yes , my purpose is to carry the message. Meanwhile they are getting rich at the expense of wildlife The Center for Biological Diversity is a multimillion-dollar nonprofit with a substantial portion of their income coming from government grants. The government gives these organizations taxpayer money, which they use to sue the government.

Wolves aren’t to blame for a disappointing deer hunt, data show

Thread needs a new angle to argue about :whistling:

Claiming wolves don’t impact the deer herd is like saying netting and spearing doesn’t affect the walleye population.

Reef W wrote:

munity

At 3000 wolves and a conservative 19 deer that is 57000 deer turned into wolf poop

Reef W wrote:

Thread needs a new angle to argue about

This article is written by the same guy whose “data” said Red Lake County was the worst place to live in America in a viral article for WaPo. Then he went there and loved it so much he moved there. Similar lesson in this article’s “data” and what reality is. But if he didn’t cherry pick data, it would paint a pretty clear picture. Look further than 10 years back. Look at St. Louis County, former #2 Boone and Crockett county in the nation, and now almost no one hunts it and those who do rarely see A deer. Meanwhile B&C #1 county, Buffalo County, WI has no wolves and hunting land is $10k+ an acre.

Ya right Reef Hooligan. Nice try.

jimmysiewert wrote:

Ya right Reef Hooligan. Nice try.

I thought we could get another three pages out of it

BigWerm wrote:

Look further than 10 years back.

For the sake of argument then… There were a lot more wolves in 2003 than in 1971 weren’t there? Why was 2003 the highest harvest and 1971 the season had to be closed? Wolves must have an impact but they must not be the only thing.

Reef W wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
Look further than 10 years back.

For the sake of argument then… There were a lot more wolves in 2003 than in 1971 weren’t there? Why was 2003 the highest harvest and 1971 the season had to be closed? Wolves must have an impact but they must not be the only thing.

I agree with that from 1971 to 2003. Lets add 2003 to 2023 , exponentially more wolves when you factor each liter can produce up to 10 pups . Add in other variables which deer managers have no control over such as disease , winter severity , car kills. Yes that will all have an impact , yet the key to one of those variables is that wolves can be regulated the others not at all .

The WDNR is know asking for help locating bear dens . Evidently wolves have been digging up dens and killing the bears

The wolf population and range far exceed the original goals of the Feds and the MN DNR.

USDA trappers kill quite a few problem wolves and wolf packs every year. Why not generate revenue vs. paying someone ?

In ND they refused to acknowledge mountain lions existed. The NDG&F kept publicly quiet on the fact that lion predation on bighorn sheep were real. Well eventually all the game cams could not be refuted. ND set up a quota season in the badlands and an open non quota season in the remainder of the state. It works.

Bears and for the most part effectively managed by hunting via quota and non-quota zones.

MN should have a wolf season with a quota in the core range and an open season (unprotected) say below highway 2 or highway 200.

A hard winter kills more deer.

Wolves suppress the deer population from rebounding faster and to higher levels.

When winter hits northern MN hard, do wolves die or do they disperse and move into new ranges ?

USDA stats for 2022:

In 2022, there were 174 documented wolf deaths in Minnesota, according to the latest state Department of Natural Resources data. Of those, 142 by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Local Fed trapper has been real busy SW of Onamia as per local gossip.

Look at what happens on Isle Royal test tube study on wolf/ prey relationship . They literally eat themselves out of house and home .

There are lots of wolves in my area where I live. People seeing them all the time not huge packs I don’t think but they are everywhere

Don Meier wrote:

They literally eat themselves out of house and home .

The moose there do the same without any wolves do keep them in check.

gim wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Don Meier wrote:</div>
They literally eat themselves out of house and home .

The moose there do the same without any wolves do keep them in check.

That’s why game managers use hunting as a tool to prevent both scenarios .

Don Meier wrote:

That’s why game managers use hunting as a tool to prevent both scenarios .

Yes, I agree. But is moose and/or wolf hunting permitted on the island? Obviously wolf hunting isn’t being that it’s part of Michigan. I guess I am not sure if there is moose hunting there.

Fascinating 10 year study on wolves with e-collars and trail cameras in northern MN. Link posted below. They are making a dent in the local beaver population.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/11/26/research-reveals-more-secrets-of-where-wolves-hunt-in-northern-minnesota

If you’re on social media the Voyageurs Wolf Project is a really cool follow. That’s assuming you have the willpower to stay out of comment sections, because there are some absolute looney tunes in there.

Don Meier wrote:

Look at what happens on Isle Royal test tube study on wolf/ prey relationship . They literally eat themselves out of house and home .

I think you are confused about the wolf and moose deal on Isle royale. They are trying to bring in new wolves because inbreeding is causing all the wolves to die off. The moose are the ones eating themselves out of house and home.

Regardless, an island isn’t a great example of predator/prey relationships. It’s pretty much just a really expensive usfws pet project.

Ones hunting results due to wolf competition shouldn’t really be a factor in the management discussion. Using that as your basis for a wolf season is taking the wrong angle and approach. Simply put, Wolves aren’t even close to being endangered, are over populated and should be managed.

http://www.mesabitribune.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/gray-wolf-population-must-be-addressed/article_5f7e6e3a-8ad1-11ee-82fb-3b2fc2304962.html

Good to see some action on the state level, hopefully he can get some momentum behind some of these ideas.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Don Meier wrote:</div>
Look at what happens on Isle Royal test tube study on wolf/ prey relationship . They literally eat themselves out of house and home .

I think you are confused about the wolf and moose deal on Isle royale. They are trying to bring in new wolves because inbreeding is causing all the wolves to die off. The moose are the ones eating themselves out of house and home.

Regardless, an island isn’t a great example of predator/prey relationships. It’s pretty much just a really expensive usfws pet project.

Ones hunting results due to wolf competition shouldn’t really be a factor in the management discussion. Using that as your basis for a wolf season is taking the wrong angle and approach. Simply put, Wolves aren’t even close to being endangered, are over populated and should be managed.

Wolves have been the single island apex predator of moose and beaver since the late 1940s. Other large predators are absent from the island, such as bears, coyotes, and mountain lions. Wolves directly impact how many moose and beaver there are at Isle Royale National Park.

“I think you are confused about the wolf and moose deal on Isle royale. They are trying to bring in new wolves because inbreeding is causing all the wolves to die off. The moose are the ones eating themselves out of house and home.”
What causes the moose population to decrease on Isle Royale?
The Population Biology of Isle Royale Wolves and Moose: An …
So how is it on Isle Royale? During a typical year on Isle Royale, 1 in 10 moose dies from predation*. In most years, predation rate is between 6% and 13% (see horizontal axis in graph to the left). What happened to the moose population in Isle Royale in 1996 and 1997?
But in 1996, a lack of food, an abundance of moose ticks, and a severe winter decimated moose numbers from their all-time high to just 500. Salvation temporarily came in the winter of 1997 when a wolf crossed the ice bridge bringing new life for the wolves. By 2006, Isle Royale had 30 wolves in three packs.Jan 6,

Don in 2018 the island was down to two inbreed wolves. They relocated a bunch because the wolves were about to die off altogether. That’s not a lack of prey or too many predators problem.

Your knowledge is dated.

https://www.nps.gov/isro/learn/nature/wolf-moose-populations.htm