oats or rye

Long story short..
Im converting my 16 acre AG field into CRP programs… Got crp heavy pheasant grass= 10 acres, and about 6 acres of trees being put in ( just over 16,000 tree to be exact!!)… on a 15yr contract for more $ annually than im currently renting the crop right for….

Issue is.. The soil has to much chemical carry-over from the harsh herbicides they use on corn and soybeans these day for agriculture. So I need to put in a cover crop NEXT spring..16 acres worth of cover crop!

What are your guys thoughts on what would be better… turnips, oats, or rye… the kicker is that which ever I choose, would have to have the seed heads mowed off in the fall so that it doesn’t drop its seeds everywhere, and I am not allowed to harvest or bail anything. It is simply there to pass the time and keep the weeds down until the carry over herbicide residuals subside.

Thoughts on which one of these would be most beneficial for the deer-my hunting. Trying to make the most of a bad situation, I am not thrilled to waste a year on these 16 acres but my hands are tied for getting done what I want done.

No advice, but thank you!

If you can plant this year I would wait until late August/early September and then plant rye. It will get you a good crop to hunt over this fall and feed lots of deer, then will pop up early next spring for your cover crop. About mid June next year you cut it so it doesn’t seed out and you have it made!!

This way you don’t waste a whole year with the field sitting fallow. Instead you have a nice fall crop to feed deer and hunt over, plus a great early spring crop for the deer to feed on. Also, rye will be great fawning cover come early summer. Triple threat!!

The 16 acres is already planted for this year in corn, with an extremely limited list of herbicides that can be used as to not add on to the carry over period. So NEXT spring it will be drilled with either the oats or Rye… that being said.. would rye still be the best option ?

Ok, so this year it is planted and next year you have to leave it sit for a year, correct? I would still go with rye myself. Get it in early spring and it will take off right away, then when it seeds out, let it, then a week or two later mow it. You will get a second crop of it and can follow the above scenario for next fall and the following year.

I wouldn’t go with brassica, 16 acres of that could get pretty expensive and you won’t get the soil building benefit or weed control of a cereal grain. I assume you are going to plant it to native grasses or something once it goes into CRP or are you just going to let it go? If you don’t control the weeds next summer you are going to get a ton of thistle and noxious weeds like that that normally you have to control in CRP. A cereal grain will help to control a lot of that, so you will be ahead of the game come time for CRP.

I have no advice like Ralph but am curious how one plants 2600 stems per acre of trees.

So if I’m understanding correctly, you want to plant a grain or cover mix in the spring of 2018 and that crop will cover the acreage until the residual herbicides burn off. Then in the spring of 2019 you will plant the final CRP mix?

If above is correct, here are a couple of options that I think would work well:

1. Straight rye – This has the best over-winter survival for a grain, so you would have a green crop all the way up until you replanted. However…

From a hunting perspective, a monoculture is never as good as a blend. Soooo..

2. Mix of rye and clover blend. The deer will love it, the pheasants will love it. And as a side benefit, the clover will fix some nitrogen limiting the N that will be consumed by the grain.

Now it’s too bad you have to mow it, because if you wanted 16 acres of pure pheasant candy, well then I’d do rye, millet, grain sorghum and clover. It would not be save to set foot into this plot in the fall because the pheasants might gang up on you.

Grouse

Can you put any cattle on it next year? I have read (Warning: I am not a real farmer, just a wannabe with a dream) of farmers who have converted row crop ground into pastures very quickly using cattle. It starts in the winter where they unroll round grass/hay bales to feed the cattle. The goal is to cover as much of the field with unrolled bales over the course of the winter. The combination of manure, seeds and organic matter does a lot to stimulate the biological growth in the soil.

It’s probably too much work if you are going to only do it for one year, but maybe it would be cheaper in the long run instead of planting several times.

Sorry guys, I tried to give you the SHORT story version to save some boring details…
But here is some other info I left out..
I have been trying to get this piece into CRP for almost 2 years.. turns out government agencies aren’t very efficient at there job.. (weird huh).

The cover crop next spring will be planted by the NRCS folks. So I do not have the option of pasturing cows, or planting some dynamite food plot for a year. They are pretty much strictly limiting me to Oats or Rye as a cover.. They are pushing for Oats for some reason. The purpose is to strictly cover the ground for weed suppression. I am unable to profit or alter in anyway, except I am required to chop the seed heads off before they start dropping. The cost of materials and labor will be (shared) 50-50 by me and the government. The contract pays rental for the year that it is covered cropped as well.

The following spring I will till the field under and then they will come in with the Drill and drill in CRP mix of grass on 10.5 acres, and the remaining will be in trees (shelter belts if you will) cost of which again is split 50-50

For example Teg- the contract I just signed the other day covers 2.1 acres of the remaining 6 which is not planted in CRP grass mix. In which there will be 7 rows (spaced at the maximum of 16ft between rows, chosen by me to A) suck up as much ground as possible on the contract and B) be better for wildlife utilizing the tree belt), each row is running 5600ft long, containing 800 specimens per row.

OK, given the situation, here’s what I see:

– The NRCS people are pushing for oats because they are the cheaper of the 2 options (oats or rye). It’s probably just that simple. Rye is $4-5 bucks more per bag of seed. Also, that’s what their drill is set up for.

– The only benefit to rye is because it will over-winter better than oats. So you’ll have a beautiful, green wildlife food source as soon as the snow melts and you get a little sun on the area.

I get that you are tilling it under, but strictly for the benefit of wildlife, there would be more food value in rye because it would survive better over winter and produce better food in the spring for the X number of weeks between greenup and when you terminate and replant.

There is no difference in weed suppression between the oats and rye.

So bottom line is does it matter enough to you to bother going against what the NRCS guys want to do?

Grouse

I still say Rye if you have a choice. It’s the perfect fit for the situation.

Ill push for Rye and see what happens… thanks for the input gentlemen.. this is turning into quite a project… never thought there was so many rules and regulations.. Which I’m sure you guys in Minnesota are used to. HAHA… Thanks for the help. Will update with any breaking news on the project.

There’s some dam good information here, I to will be making a new small scale plot

Makes absolutely no sense to me to seed oats or rye for weed suppression and then till/disc it up next year, exposing a jabillion new weed seeds. Maybe I’m not understanding exactly what’s happening.

91reddog wrote:

Makes absolutely no sense to me to seed oats or rye for weed suppression and then till/disc it up next year, exposing a jabillion new weed seeds. Maybe I’m not understanding exactly what’s happening.

That is the point of a cover crop. Any weed seeds near the surface germinate but are out-competed by the faster-growing, thicker cover crop. The height of the cover crop prevents airborne seeds from reaching the soil and germinating.

Tillage after cover cropping should be the minimum depth required, which considering the next crop, will probably be planted without tilling at all. No-till drills are terrific for planting after a cover crop has been terminating and the fuel and equiment savings will often pay for the drill for the professional user.

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>91reddog wrote:</div>
Makes absolutely no sense to me to seed oats or rye for weed suppression and then till/disc it up next year, exposing a jabillion new weed seeds. Maybe I’m not understanding exactly what’s happening.

That is the point of a cover crop. Any weed seeds near the surface germinate but are out-competed by the faster-growing, thicker cover crop. The height of the cover crop prevents airborne seeds from reaching the soil and germinating.

Tillage after cover cropping should be the minimum depth required, which considering the next crop, will probably be planted without tilling at all. No-till drills are terrific for planting after a cover crop has been terminating and the fuel and equiment savings will often pay for the drill for the professional user.

Grouse

I understand the cover crop and it’s merit, it’s the tillage that makes no sense to me as it defeats the purpose of the cover crop. If the ground needs worked to level it out,it should be done before the cover crop installation and the final planting drilled in with as little soil disturbance as possible.

The tillage will only be done to the rows of trees to make a good soft seed bed for the seedlings, the seedlings will then be planted and then covered in weed barrier plastic to prevent weeds and grasses from competing with the seedlings. The crp grass will be no til drilled into the oats or rye.

sktrwx2200 wrote:

The tillage will only be done to the rows of trees to make a good soft seed bed for the seedlings, the seedlings will then be planted and then covered in weed barrier plastic to prevent weeds and grasses from competing with the seedlings. The crp grass will be no til drilled into the oats or rye.

Makes sense. Thanks

Im a little late to the discussion party on this….but have open and candid conversations with the Forester or Ag rep that they assign to your project. They are a wealth of information and usually by-pass the politics when it comes to getting things done.

I’ve done multiple large scale projects similar to yours. Often they will allow you to spray once prior to the final planting. My experience for this is go cheap. All your doing is planting a cover that can not be allowed to “mature” to a food source or be harvested. Rye is super fast growing and for the annual use, is perfect.

tegg wrote:

I have no advice like Ralph but am curious how one plants 2600 stems per acre of trees.

Use the right equipment and work smart and 16,000 trees is only a weekend project.
link from some of my older projects

Mega Plot Update my kids inheritance…