Notice of Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee meeting

Hi, the next MLFAC meeting will be this Thursday and will be held by video conferencing. If you wish to join, contact as requested below. I have requested to join and also have requested to speak during the open comment period. My line of questioning will be a follow-on from the last MLFAC meeting during which I requested going forward that the DNR consider options to keep the season open for fall fishing as there of many of us who do not ice fish on ML and would like the opportunity to resume fall fishing.

“The Mille Lacs Fisheries Advisory Committee (MLFAC) will meet from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 6, via online videoconference. The agenda will cover updates on the in-progress lake management plan and 1837 Fisheries Technical Committee’s management strategy, the current fishing season, and committee member recruitment.

Members of the public may observe MLFAC meetings, but these meetings serve primarily as a way for the committee to hold group discussions. Fifteen minutes are reserved for public comments and questions. For the upcoming online meeting, members of the public who wish to observe the meeting or speak during the public comment period should contact [email protected] by Thursday at noon.”

Thanks for posting this.

Having recently moved to the area I had planned on attending the next meeting in person.

Now they are offering attendance remotely.

I’ll plan on joining although I’ll have nothing to say, but would like to listen in.

Thanks again for posting.

This should be a very interesting meeting. Maybe the long awaited overall lake management plan will be rolled out. This does not only include walleyes but all the fish, etc. Supposed to be a big encompassing plan, something new for this lake.

Also will be interesting to see what opportunities there are to join the committee. I had asked about opportunities at the last meeting as the size of the committee has shrunk considerably and from what I could tell only a single non-business owner was left on the committee. Not a very good representation for all the players in the area.

Maybe the players realize the deck is stacked against them?

Any updates from the meeting last night?

My opinion of it, meeting was fairly uneventful. No master plan rolled out. DNR asked what MLFAC would like to see as goals. They noted that the summer anglers have been taking a back seat to the winter season anglers. Not a lot of action occurred in my opinion. One thing that was interesting is that the resort and business owners on the committee all want the natives to submit their goals as well. Which no one has ever actually seen, but we as Minnesota will just roll over and hand them our goals. Little heat on that subject. The DNR in my opinion is basically telling the tribes, here is what we would like to see, what do you want to do with it? Where as if this was a truly co managed lake, both parties would actually create one common goal and show each other what they both would actually like to see long term.

Based on watching facial expressions, it’s very evident that the DNR really could care less about actual input from the public. Seemed like there was a lot of eye rolls when comments where made from the committee members who own resorts, businesses etc. That’s just my opinion on what I saw.

Brief discussion on the test nets used. Erie has been using flourocarbon instead of the old monofilament nets and seeing an increase in the net catches. There is a video of net aversion going around, where the fish get accustomed to the nets in place and swim around them, thus actually reducing the validity of the test nets. With flourocarbon nets the fish do not see the material and more are caught. Which would make a person wonder, if that is the case, wouldn’t the DNR be able to utilize a percentage base of error on the mono nets and thus inflate the actual number when they are testing? Highly doubt we will ever see that as it seems this is still all about politics and nothing more. One member asked about attaching go pros onto the test nets to see if there is net aversion happening in Mille Lacs, again a basic eye roll from the DNR. My opinion, why not use technology advances to capture some data. Again we are at the mercy of our own DNR. Which from past history has not proven themselves with the general public.

I hope they continue to the online meeting formats as the general public has an easier chance of viewing the meetings, which in turn would create more accountability to the DNR.

Overall interesting to see and hear what actually goes on. Will look forward to listening in on more of these.

Thank you to putting this link out there.

So nothing changes.

DND ignores the committee.
DNR dances to the tribes song.
DNR placates the public but does nothing to encourage fairness & accountability.

Shocking i say!

ryan hunt wrote:

Based on watching facial expressions, it’s very evident that the DNR really could care less about actual input from the public. Seemed like there was a lot of eye rolls when comments where made from the committee members who own resorts, businesses etc. That’s just my opinion on what I saw.

Again we are at the mercy of our own DNR. Which from past history has not proven themselves with the general public.

I too logged into the meeting and listened in as well.

I think you summed it up pretty good Ryan.

I also perceived a general dismissive attitude from the DNR representatives as well. I surmise that these meetings are painful for them and they only do so because they are mandated. For them it seems a necessary evil.

(Did you stay logged in to the very end when a couple of them exhibited a huge sense of relief to have it over and were saying they needed a beer ASAP?)

On their side, I imagine they’re worn out and have become impatient of the continual repetition of complaints and fist pounding.

From the committee side, I see their continuing frustration on how this all keeps going round and round with nothing really changing/improving the last 5+ years. Which is certainly justifiable given the unpredicted closures, live bait bans, narrow slots, lack of consistency and transparency.

There’s still little or no trust.

One thing worth mentioning was some kind of lottery harvest “tag” was proposed to limit overall harvest if/when harvest of actual walleyes might be allowed. Perhaps this was an attempt to spread harvest out more evenly across both winter and open water angling?

The committee seemed receptive to this proposal, although personally I have reservations about that.

Another item of concern for me was the reluctance by committee members to backfill open seats that have been vacated. I think there are currently 5 or 6 seats that have been vacated.

Some comments by committee members were “why do we need anymore, what’s left of us can tell you all you need to hear”, implying they want to close this group into a tighter circle of like minded individuals.

It sounded like the DNR recognizes that some diversity amongst committee members would be beneficial and seats need to be backfilled. (Wouldn’t you think?)

The committee argued that “rookies” would just bog down the meetings/discussions because they’d be clueless and require training.

Regardless, they will be offering opportunities to the public to fill these seats at a rate of 3 per year.

Who’s interested?

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

Who’s interested?

What’s the pay? It would need to be significant, to participate in that fool’s errand. Dutch nailed it, the DNR do nothing, know nothing and by the sounds of it just want the meeting over as quickly as possible. Can’t say I blame them when it’s clearly legislated from St. Paul instead of the DNR, scientists, and shareholders on the lake.

After working for a city for close to 30 years, I can tell you that public entities are very fond of making people “feel like “ they have been heard.
They don’t care what you think, they know what is best for you.

The DNR is being shoved into a boxing ring with handcuffs on. If you look at this situation empathetically, would you want to be in their shoes? The MNDNR has next to NO say as to what goes on with the harvest regulations, yet anglers, owners, guides, forum posters, etc keep bashing them for the situation.

My only critique as an outsider is that I wish the MNDNR would say it as it is, and publicly admit their hands are more tied than anyone realizes. Ditch this “co-management” rhetoric and these pointless committees painting themselves as idiots. The MNDNR cannot fix or change the current situation…they are not in charge of Mille Lacs anymore than the people in this forum.

It is economic siege warfare by the band.
Destroy the local tourism based economy and swoop in and buy at a discount. Then they shutter or raze the site. See motel in Wahkon, restaurant/bait shop/motel in Isle, Tackle Castle ( It was not on the market so far as I know), the motel (since burned) on the north end of St Albans, numerous small mom & pop resorts (IE Stockies BH) on the west side.
The 4 exceptions to closing that come to mind are Eddies, MLB gas & C-store by the old Econolodge which is now at risk tribal housing, and Meleens gas & C-store on 27 & 169.
Art Gahbow, who was tribal chair in the 90s, often boasted that the band would get the Rez back one piece at a time. GLIFWC is one of the conduits.
People need to recognize this but even more so be aware that neither political party will do a thing to address this. The DFL gets serious $$$ and votes and the GOP is content to ferment local resentment that builds base. Fixing the problem is counter productive to both parties so here we sit.

The_Bladepuller wrote:

It is economic siege warfare by the band.
Destroy the local tourism based economy and swoop in and buy at a discount. Then they shutter or raze the site. See motel in Wahkon, restaurant/bait shop/motel in Isle, Tackle Castle ( It was not on the market so far as I know), the motel (since burned) on the north end of St Albans, numerous small mom & pop resorts (IE Stockies BH) on the west side.
The 4 exceptions to closing that come to mind are Eddies, MLB gas & C-store by the old Econolodge which is now at risk tribal housing, and Meleens gas & C-store on 27 & 169.
Art Gahbow, who was tribal chair in the 90s, often boasted that the band would get the Rez back one piece at a time. GLIFWC is one of the conduits.
People need to recognize this but even more so be aware that neither political party will do a thing to address this. The DFL gets serious $$$ and votes and the GOP is content to ferment local resentment that builds base. Fixing the problem is counter productive to both parties so here we sit.

Sad thing is people realize this and yet there is no public outcry. It will be like bleeding to death one paper cut at a time.

buckybadger wrote:

Ditch this “co-management” rhetoric and these pointless committees painting themselves as idiots.

Well…? They can’t. Co-management is court mandated and the “pointless” committees are no different than political candidates running for office unopposed. They’re the only one on the ballot and the election is still put to a vote. The formality still must be exercised and the show must go on, even if all it is is a show.

The_Bladepuller wrote:

It is economic siege warfare by the band.
Destroy the local tourism based economy and swoop in and buy at a discount. Then they shutter or raze the site.

Yes, this has been a common theory both in the community as well as the more widespread social media. In fact we had the same discussion here on this forum a year or so ago.

I still have to wonder, what benefit would the tribe gain by wiping out the local economy? It would seem counter productive to create an economic wasteland surrounding their cash cow casino.

Empty lots, properties…boarded up businesses does not invite prosperous growth for the casino standing alone.

I wonder how many outside gamblers actually drive into the closed Red Lake reservation to the Seven Clans Casino?

He already stated why so they can buy the property for pennies on the dollar. The boarded up houses and broken window houses across the street sure don’t seem to deter the folks going to the monopolistic casino now. Just sayin.

Red Lake casino is completely different. Red lake does not have anywhere near the tourism that the mille lacs area has. It is way farther away to drive for city folks. It is not on a major highway. Not apples to apples IMO

The DNR is stuck between several factors and trying to please all of them just isn’t going to happen.

The treaty, quota, hooking mortality, business owners, anglers (of several species), open water regs, ice angling regs, skinny fish, not enough perch, climate change (which has altered the lake), invasive species, etc. Its just a maze of problems to navigate.

I do wish they would admit that there isn’t a whole lot they can do some of the time. More consistent regulations from year to year would also be helpful. Don’t say that its not close to being shut down for the season in mid August and then reverse course by Labor Day and say it has to be shut down. That’s the sort of thing that blind sides everyone and just frustrates them.

Ripjiggen wrote:

The boarded up houses and broken window houses across the street sure don’t seem to deter the folks going to the monopolistic casino now. Just sayin.

If it hasn’t already, eventually it will. Attendance at GC Mille Lacs was declining well before Covid. A broken down, crime ridden slum is not near as inviting an area to visit compared to one in a nice neighborhood like Hinckley. Which would you choose?

Ripjiggen wrote:

Red Lake casino is completely different. Red lake does not have anywhere near the tourism that the mille lacs area has. It is way farther away to drive for city folks. It is not on a major highway. Not apples to apples IMO

This is the point I was trying to make. Why then would Mille Lacs Band wish to destroy all the surrounding tourism? It was not an attempt at an apple to apple comparison, just the opposite. Tourism invites more visitors to the area, lack of it encourages folks to look elsewhere. Like Hinckley or Mystic Lake.

I don’t know, I just don’t understand the reasoning or rationale for some of the behavior around that outlandish Umland.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
Ditch this “co-management” rhetoric and these pointless committees painting themselves as idiots.

Well…? They can’t. Co-management is court mandated and the “pointless” committees are no different than political candidates running for office unopposed. They’re the only one on the ballot and the election is still put to a vote. The formality still must be exercised and the show must go on, even if all it is is a show.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>The_Bladepuller wrote:</div>
It is economic siege warfare by the band.
Destroy the local tourism based economy and swoop in and buy at a discount. Then they shutter or raze the site.

Yes, this has been a common theory both in the community as well as the more widespread social media. In fact we had the same discussion here on this forum a year or so ago.

I still have to wonder, what benefit would the tribe gain by wiping out the local economy? It would seem counter productive to create an economic wasteland surrounding their cash cow casino.

Empty lots, properties…boarded up businesses does not invite prosperous growth for the casino standing alone.

I wonder how many outside gamblers actually drive into the closed Red Lake reservation to the Seven Clans Casino?

What are they going to do if the MNDNR sends one “member” to these committee meetings. They sit in silence and don’t agree to anymore taxpayer funded studies, etc? Sure this co-management may be mandated…but to what extent?

Don’t think Mille Lacs Casino is the cash cow of that operation. I’m pretty sure just about all their other properties generate more. While Mille Lacs was the funding arm in the beginning I don’t know that it is now.

It’s the fear of the band that drives me nuts. Everybody (both parties & the DNR) are scared shitle$$ of the band. Why? I dunno. The right idea is to open the lake up and run balls to the walls until the quota is met and shut her down. Quit fixing highway 169. Quit funding everything they ask for.

Andy you are right, there was a thread about this last year, and the year before, and the year before and yes even years before that. The theme year in and year out is the DNR’s fear of the Band and the total lack of transparency and lack of respect for Mille Lacs fisherman.

We can go ahead and block out the space for next years thread today, we know there is gonna be one.

Attendance at GC Mille Lacs was declining well before Covid.

Why then would Mille Lacs Band wish to destroy all the surrounding tourism?

That’s a good question. I think about this weekly in the last 4-5 months. Seems to be happening in multiple locations in this state recently. Heck throughout this country for the the most part.:???:

Maybe it’s for the same reasons maybe not.

Well written, that took some time.

However your idea is no different then Pereira’s in that it’s theory. Adopting a more liberal “take” formula might work, but it might not also. Also you hammer the fact that it’s been years and years that the DNR has used their flawed formula. If thats the case (it being flawed) why hasn’t the bands DNR figured that out? Why haven’t they pushed for a more liberal quota by allowing the non-band side to increase theirs?

The hate towards the MDNR is a personal thing with most people. We understand they are fighting a uphill battle. The hate stems from constant excuses and lack of accountability and transparency. Their arrogant stance that they owe us nothing is what gets them in trouble with the Mille Lacs fisherman.

I’m in the minority here in that I would rather hold their feet to the fire and roast them every chance I get until they grow a set and treat the sport fisherman as a partner in this debacle. I’m to the point of not caring and understand that Mille Lacs is what it is and that isn’t changing. That includes we will never get the “closed / restricted” bans taken off.

Again, well written.

Jonser, there is one flaw to your long winded theory.
The strongest year classes left come from the years with the latest ice outs, and least netting.

Tom schmitt wrote:

Jonser, there is one flaw to your long winded theory.
The strongest year classes left come from the years with the latest ice outs, and least netting.

Late ice outs result in good year classes because the later the ice comes out the later the spawn is. The later the spawn is the more likely the water temps will warm at a stable rate resulting in a better hatch and more food in the system when they do hatch. Later ice outs have a less chance that we get a nasty cold front the kills off the eggs. It has nothing to do with netting. Look around the state 2013 was good hatch for most lakes.

Doesn’t appear there will be an abrupt closure this season based on the most recent numbers released:

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources recently released their creel, or angler, survey results which may be hopeful for keeping walleye fishing open this season.

Mille Lacs Lake Area Fisheries Supervisor Tom Heinrich said that they are at about 68% of the total allocation to date. “I am optimistic that we will make it through the season without an additional closure,” said Heinrich. “Time will tell.”

Heinrich said that with the walleye fishing closure and the bait ban, only 858 pounds of walleye were estimated to be killed from July 1 through July 15. In contrast, Heinrich added, last year they entered July at 54% of the allocation, and entered August at 91%.

joneser,

You make a lot of valid points but if I might suggest trying in smaller doses.

Much of what you’re trying to convey could easily be condensed without as much unrelated rambling, while still making your points and the same amount of information provided.

I found myself ultimately scrolling through parts of it.

But that’s just me and my opinion, take it for what it’s worth.

I’ll comment that I personally have less animosity towards the tribes than a number of other’s.

However, I will not wheel a cooler of beer carrying a fillet knife at a landing where tribal members are processing their catch. I’m relatively certain that would not be well received.

For the most part, members here on this forum are relatively tame in regards to contempt for tribal activities.

The much larger planet of social media, ie; Facebook is riff with toxicity towards Indians.

Perhaps you might deliver your message there too?

gimruis wrote:

Doesn’t appear there will be an abrupt closure this season based on the most recent numbers released:

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources recently released their creel, or angler, survey results which may be hopeful for keeping walleye fishing open this season.

Mille Lacs Lake Area Fisheries Supervisor Tom Heinrich said that they are at about 68% of the total allocation to date. “I am optimistic that we will make it through the season without an additional closure,” said Heinrich. “Time will tell.”

Heinrich said that with the walleye fishing closure and the bait ban, only 858 pounds of walleye were estimated to be killed from July 1 through July 15. In contrast, Heinrich added, last year they entered July at 54% of the allocation, and entered August at 91%.

Convenient that the narrative fits their solution don’t you think?

Would love to hear how they came up with 858 lbs during a complete shutdown of walleye fishing. I understand it is minimal but how do you calculate hooking mortality when there technically should be no hooking mortality. So the sportsman still gets poundage taken away when they were not allowed to fish for them. Seems kind of whack to me.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Would love to hear how they came up with 858 lbs during a complete shutdown of walleye fishing. I understand it is minimal but how do you calculate hooking mortality when there technically should be no hooking mortality.

I assume that’s calculated from bass anglers. I had heard the bass bite was very difficult in July but you’re bound to run into a few walleyes while you’re after bass with artificial lures. Heck, when I went in the spring I sometimes caught more walleyes than bass. It won’t be as high using artificial lures, but there is at least still a minimal amount, especially when its so warm out.

That is my point. How is it calculated from bass anglers? By counting bass boats. You mean walleyes being caught mid summer in probably less than 15 ft with artificial lures still die. Yeah pretty flawed idea in my book.

It is still a political issue all the way around. Since 1990 the mille lacs band has contributed $1,082,541 dollars in political contributions. Primarily to the Dems, Since 1998 they have Contributed $6,400,000.00 dollars in lobbying efforts.

Do I blame the natives for the lake, ABSOLUTELY NOT. They are the intelligent ones and understand how to gain control and have the regs created to benefit themselves. They are simply doing what is legally allowed. Blame your politicians for this mess.

I am as conservative as they come, but the writing is on the wall with this issue.

How much has MLFAC contributed? I found nothing on them. No money spent lobbying etc.

At the end of the day it is purely a political issue and as long as money is flowing into our elected officials, there will never be a change significant enough to truly have a lasting impact. Everyone is simply putting band aids on the little flare ups that come along the way currently. If we truly want change, everyone, including the business owners up there, the tribes, the DNR the politicians and our ownselves will have to endure alot of pain (not physical) before we see any real change. The entire system is flawed, broken and needs to be completely re worked. These little ideas of increase the quota, spawning bio mass, net surveys etc is all just to pacify and buy time.

Ripjiggen wrote:

That is my point. How is it calculated from bass anglers? By counting bass boats. You mean walleyes being caught mid summer in probably less than 15 ft with artificial lures still die. Yeah pretty flawed idea in my book.

They have a method. I have never done it before so I don’t know what that method is. Contact the Aitkin Fisheries Office if you want their methodology. It will likely contain a bunch or scientific terminology that neither you or I understand. Its not a number they just come up with out of thin air.