No deer.

Bearcat89 wrote:

The wolves are cute. Leave them alone.

This made me LOL

A large part of the perception hunters have about deer populations and reports of “no deer” has to do with extremely high and probably unrealistic expectations.

First off, in most areas of MN, last winter was one of the most severe of the past 25 years according to the winter severity index. And so it’s a surprise that deer numbers are down and it must be the wolves. Reality check once again, the #1 factor for deer populations in Minnesota is, was, and always will be the severity of the winter. That was true without wolves and it’s still true with wolves.

Also, I think there’s just a major entitlement mentality factor in play. The vast majority of today’s active hunters came into hunting over the last 30 years. With the occasional exception of hard winter years like 2013, the VAST majority of the hunters today have had deer populations that were at all-time highs nearly everywhere in the midwest AND these populations remained high through many sequential years of mild winters that saw virtually zero winter kill.

So when we’ve spent so many years with populations of deer at the peak of the peak of the peak of their historical numbers, absolutely nobody is going to stop and ask the question: How many deer SHOULD there be? What does the normal population look like? We just assumed that the deer populations we saw were the new normal and we were entitled to having them continue forever.

Wolves are a reality that isn’t going to go away and even though I’d love to see active state-led management including hunting/trapping, you’re on Fantasy Island if you think this will mean any kind of large-scale reduction in wolves over what we see now.

gim wrote:

Good to know. Those particular wolves you speak of may not represent the majority of their population though. Wolves preying on livestock would represent animals that could be patterned, whereas others are not. They’ve been drawn into an area where they normally wouldn’t be.

We are in full agreement that trapping is far more effective than hunting.

I’ve personally never seen one outside of the zoo and hope to someday in the wilderness.

Valid point for the fed trapper but there was no livestock at the NW angle where the guy I know trapped three the first day of the season. If you know where they live I think it’s pretty easy to trap them if you are good.

He only had one tag so he had to release two wolves from the traps. That would be a little nerve racking.

To your last point, I have only seen three wolves in close sightings in my life but they are very well populated where I live and where I do a lot of fishing and hunting. Very elusive critter. I hear them howling fairly often.

I have seen packs cross a lake we fish in the winter a few times as well but off in the distance. Seems we find a wolf deer kill out on that lake nearly every winter.

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Agree 100% grouse.

Lots of factors that go into deer numbers. Wolves are not the only reason. Dry years play hell on the habitat. Throw in harsh winters and the browse the deer need isn’t there due to drought.
Black bears and coyotes will have very little impact on adult deer. However they can raise hell on fawn recruitment. There has been studies with up to 40% of the fawn crop is lost to each predator.

There is plenty of documentation on the predator prey relationship between wolves and their prey. Isle Royals has good reports on the subject. If you dive into the GMU units in Alaska and look at the predator control numbers in relation to game numbers. It’s easy to point out the good units to hunt that have better numbers of big game and have had extensive predator control.

If a wolf consumes a deer a week and there are 3000 wolves that’s 156,000 deer a year. Throw moose in the equation and that number drops quickly.

The major difference when comparing today to pre settlement is back then we didn’t have 419,000 deer hunters like we did last year.

One last thing. The world has roughly 200,000 to 250,000 wolves. With the majority being grey wolves (timber wolf). On the world stage they are far from being endangered.

NE Minnesota used to be one of the best areas in the entire WORLD to deer hunt, especially for trophy deer. It is now the worst area of the STATE for numbers AND size. It also has the highest # of wolves. Come up with your own hypothesis as to why.

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Bear hunters in Northern Wi. Are seeing wolves on their cameras chasing bears off of the bait stumps. The bear comes in and knocks the cover off and the wolves chase them off to get at the bait. They’re also saying that they’re not seeing many cubs because the wolves are grabbing the cubs out of the dens. If you’re on Facebook check out Wi citizen wolf count page a lot of wolf videos and pictures. There is also a 2 articles in this week’s Wisconsin Outdoor News about this.

wkw wrote:

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Do you poach fish too?

This summer we’ve seen two deer in the cabin yard and two more on a couple cameras. We haven’t seen any tracks but then its been so dry that tracks are more a figment of the imagination so they are not a good tell. Deer scat hasn’t been seen in a year. Bears have been around and bear scat is common. The wolf in the picture in the opening post is the first on camera in the cabin yard this year but we have seen them pass thru the yard while in the kitchen eating and have had them approach the trough feeder less than twenty yards from the kitchen window.

We have no trouble seeing and finding wolf scat on the trails and every one of the finds have deer hair and bone fragments in it, so yes they are feeding heavily on deer…. at least where our cabin is. The neighbors see wolves very regular.

I’ve said it before: wolves are definitely a big part of the eco system of the north woods as long as their numbers are kept in check and in harmony with their prey species. Minnesota could do well with 300 wolves across the top 1/3 of the state. Minnesota is certainly not needing the 3000+ wolves counted at the last aerial wolf census.

This thread sounds just like a lot of the reading I’ve done on WIsconsin wolves. The Wi DNR doesn’t want to set a limit on wolves. The original limit was to be 350. At last estimate it was between 1000 to 1200. This is after the so-called slaughter of 219 killed in the last hunting season.
The “experts” originally claimed wolves wouldn’t migrate below Highway 8 because there was not enough large tracts of forest. So much for that idea. Wolves have been spotted south of the Dells.
Most of the big city people think they are cute and beautiful. My bil and myself saw one right on the Sauk/Juneau County line 15 years ago. There are too many in the lower 48 states. JMO

How did deer ever survive wolf predation before NA was heavily populated? Why are alaska and canada popular big game hunting destinations with so many wolves around up there?

crawdaddy wrote:

How did deer ever survive wolf predation before NA was heavily populated? Why are alaska and canada popular big game hunting destinations with so many wolves around up there?

There were very few deer before white man got here. That was more due to habitat than wolves. When we forested off the nation it changed the landscape that favored deer and their populations exploded. Comparing then to now is really apples to oranges. Comparing the big game of Alaska to the upper Midwest deer with relation to wolves is also apples to oranges.

We have changed the landscape and need to manage animal populations. Wolves are far from endangered and need management. Liberals animal lovers should have no say in wildlife management on a state or federal level. They made a mockery of the endangered species list when that liberal judge got them relisted.

I would argue that the wolf lovers are the problem and for some reason will not relinquish their position despite all the data saying otherwise.

The wolf population far exceeds the original Federal and MN DNR targets. The wolf population far exceeds the original primary target range for wolf packs.

The number of wolves killed by USDA trappers each year would surprise many (150-200 per year and the most of any state). Why not authorize a wolf hunting and trapping season to remove surplus animals? Less payments out and income generation in.

MN successfully manages the bear population by controlled hunts in the core range and a wide-open season in the part of the state where bears are a greater nuisance and the odds of them living a life without human contact is low.

For decades the NDG&F denied the existence of mountain lions. I had inside information that confirmed otherwise. Once the trail cameras became common … the NDG&F could no longer deny. They now have a season on a sustainable population which closes when the kill target is reached. They also have a zone (most of the state) where the animal is fair game without protection.

I would argue the same should be true in MN. North of Hwy 2 the wolf is managed by a controlled hunt. South of Hwy 2 (thereabouts) the wolf is unprotected and treated no differently than coyotes or fox.

I’ll also add that I do not hunt deer at the cabin. Never have and won’t. Bear, yes.

Brittman, I like this idea…. “I would argue the same should be true in MN. North of Hwy 2 the wolf is managed by a controlled hunt. South of Hwy 2 (thereabouts) the wolf is unprotected and treated no differently than coyotes or fox”. Except I would say north of Highway 1.

If one believes the MN DNR is effectively modeling and managing bear populations then you have support that they can do this with wolves too.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>crawdaddy wrote:</div>
How did deer ever survive wolf predation before NA was heavily populated? Why are alaska and canada popular big game hunting destinations with so many wolves around up there?

There were very few deer before white man got here. That was more due to habitat than wolves. When we forested off the nation it changed the landscape that favored deer and their populations exploded. Comparing then to now is really apples to oranges. Comparing the big game of Alaska to the upper Midwest deer with relation to wolves is also apples to oranges.

We have changed the landscape and need to manage animal populations. Wolves are far from endangered and need management. Liberals animal lovers should have no say in wildlife management on a state or federal level. They made a mockery of the endangered species list when that liberal judge got them relisted.