No deer.

The cabin property has been void of deer this year. Pretty much. Here’s why.

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I hear wolf chili is pretty good.

We have deer but then I just got this pic last night

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Nothing new here. It’s only going to get worse.
The wolves have nearly wiped the deer out of Voyager’s National Park. The park service spends big money monitoring the wolves. They’ve been so proud of their groundbreaking discoveries of wolves eating fish and beavers over the last couple years. They never mention why they’ve adapted to eat them though…
They have to eat something, no deer so they move on to the next available resource.

Cameras tell me I have a lot of deer and a lot of wolves. I just don’t know where the hell the deer are during hunting season

grubson wrote:

Nothing new here. It’s only going to get worse.
The wolves have nearly wiped the deer out of Voyager’s National Park. The park service spends big money monitoring the wolves. They’ve been so proud of their groundbreaking discoveries of wolves eating fish and beavers over the last couple years. They never mention why they’ve adapted to eat them though…
They have to eat something, no deer so they move on to the next available resource.

So 2 heavy snowfall years had nothing to do with the lower deer populations?

Wolves have been eat fish for many years. They’re opportunistic animals, they’ll eat what comes easiest. No different than chasing down old/young deer.

TillrLife wrote:

So 2 heavy snowfall years had nothing to do with the lower deer populations?

It absolutely did, made them easier to be hunted down by the wolves.

Seems like locals handle this differently in Wis? Maybe because the wild spaces aren’t as big?

Can’t do anything about the wolves until the feds remove them from the endangered species list AND a judge does not overturn it (which has now happened twice).

MN State Law passed in August says that when this does occur, there has to be a hunting/trapping season that is managed by the state.

IMO its only a matter of time. And I have stated this before, they do need to be managed. We can easily set up a lottery quota-based hunting or trapping season.

Plenty of deer in Western MN. Snowfall didn’t seem to bother them they just gathered in large groups to feed on tilled fields. Short grass from the drought gave the coyotes a great chance at predating fawns though. Turkey numbers went down too, I’ve only almost hit about a dozen this year.

The wolves are cute. Leave them alone.

I counted 32 deer in the bean field below the house on Tuesday night here (~250 yards away). They are overpopulated and need to be managed accordingly. I went around and put the plastic back on all the new trees now that the weather is changing. If they aren’t on by the first hard frost, deer eat/scratch/rub/assault any young tree in the area until there’s nothing left of it.

We have a few coyotes making noise at night, but does not seem to impact the deer population. Wolves obviously would be different.

Yes, northern MN and Southern MN are different

TillrLife wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>grubson wrote:</div>
Nothing new here. It’s only going to get worse.
The wolves have nearly wiped the deer out of Voyager’s National Park. The park service spends big money monitoring the wolves. They’ve been so proud of their groundbreaking discoveries of wolves eating fish and beavers over the last couple years. They never mention why they’ve adapted to eat them though…
They have to eat something, no deer so they move on to the next available resource.

So 2 heavy snowfall years had nothing to do with the lower deer populations?

Wolves have been eat fish for many years. They’re opportunistic animals, they’ll eat what comes easiest. No different than chasing down old/young deer.

Severe winters didn’t help but this problem has been ongoing for a lot longer than two years. We used to see deer daily in the park, its been 2-3 years since I’ve seen one deer. The deer camps in the area are mostly abandoned including my families camp.
Now instead of managing the wolf numbers the government is paying to fence in ranches near the park to avoid conflict.

There’s no documentation of wolves surviving on fish and beavers anywhere other than in VNP. We all know they’re opportunistic and will eat anything but their main food source all around their range is big game. It’s a direct result of the lack of their preferred food source that they’re seeing so much predation on non big game animals.

lindyrig79 wrote:

Yes, northern MN and Southern MN are different

100%.

You could eradicate every wolf in the region, and the populations would still be shockingly different. Wolves are a problem and need to be managed with some sort of lottery hunt. However, some people wrongly think that the wolves are the only thing keeping the Northern half of MN from being some whitetail paradise.

buckybadger wrote:

Wolves are a problem and need to be managed with some sort of lottery hunt.

I think some people have this idea that it would be a piece of cake to tag one too with an open hunting season. The success rate is around 5% for hunters when we had an open season years ago. That means 95% of the wolf hunters are eating tag soup. The chances of even seeing one during legal shooting hours is extremely remote. You could sit there for days on end and see nary a sign of one.

Trapping is a much more effective method of control. But even that is not a given. They aren’t dumb like a raccoon or skunk.

grubson wrote:

There’s no documentation of wolves surviving on fish and beavers anywhere other than in VNP. We all know they’re opportunistic and will eat anything but their main food source all around their range is big game. It’s a direct result of the lack of their preferred food source that they’re seeing so much predation on non big game animals.

Beavers are one of wolves top food sources even where there are deer. Not saying they don’t eat a ton of deer and kill some for fun. Just saying eating beaver isn’t something unique to VNP or areas there isn’t big game.

Classic deer hunter, you see a wolf and then nothing else matters, it’s the only reason your not seeing deer en masse on your property. I got news for you, wolves have been around for a minute. And just because they are taking back some of their historical range doesn’t mean bambi is going extinct. Not to mention bears and coyotes eat a lot of deer too. A lot of deer hunters have a knee jerk reaction that all wolves are bad. It’s like walleye fishermen on mille lacs blaming any scapegoat they can when the eyeball numbers are down. It’s the musky or its the smallmouth. Either way timberwolves aren’t going away in our lifetimes. I do agree with a DNR managed hunting season when approved. And to reiterate what gimruis said, hunter success is very low. Look at the historical extirpation of wolves in the US, the only way they could wipe them out was with poisoned carcasses.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
Wolves are a problem and need to be managed with some sort of lottery hunt.

I think some people have this idea that it would be a piece of cake to tag one too with an open hunting season. The success rate is around 5% for hunters when we had an open season years ago. That means 95% of the wolf hunters are eating tag soup. The chances of even seeing one during legal shooting hours is extremely remote. You could sit there for days on end and see nary a sign of one.

Trapping is a much more effective method of control. But even that is not a given. They aren’t dumb like a raccoon or skunk.

If you are a good trapper it ain’t hard. My buddies dad is a professional trapper and gets called in by the feds when wolves are eating livestock and has no trouble trapping them. I know a trapper in the NW angle that got three in his traps the first day of season.

Running them with dogs is the most effective but I doubt a liberal state like MN would ever allow that.

Hunting is definitely tough.

crawdaddy wrote:

Classic deer hunter, you see a wolf and then nothing else matters, it’s the only reason your not seeing deer en masse on your property. I got news for you, wolves have been around for a minute. And just because they are taking back some of their historical range doesn’t mean bambi is going extinct. Not to mention bears and coyotes eat a lot of deer too. A lot of deer hunters have a knee jerk reaction that all wolves are bad. It’s like walleye fishermen on mille lacs blaming any scapegoat they can when the eyeball numbers are down. It’s the musky or its the smallmouth. Either way timberwolves aren’t going away in our lifetimes. I do agree with a DNR managed hunting season when approved. And to reiterate what gimruis said, hunter success is very low. Look at the historical extirpation of wolves in the US, the only way they could wipe them out was with poisoned carcasses.

Yep deer numbers can stay high in areas with lots of wolves if they have good habitat. Around my house we have lots of wolves and lots of deer. Deer can make it because it is prime habitat due to logging. Not to far away habitat isn’t so great and most of the deer have been wiped out.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

If you are a good trapper it ain’t hard. My buddies dad is a professional trapper and gets called in by the feds when wolves are eating livestock and has no trouble trapping them. I know a trapper in the NW angle that got three in his traps the first day of season.

Good to know. Those particular wolves you speak of may not represent the majority of their population though. Wolves preying on livestock would represent animals that could be patterned, whereas others are not. They’ve been drawn into an area where they normally wouldn’t be.

We are in full agreement that trapping is far more effective than hunting.

I’ve personally never seen one outside of the zoo and hope to someday in the wilderness.

Grim wrote:
Can’t do anything about the wolves until the feds remove them from the endangered species list AND a judge does not overturn it (which has now happened twice).

Sorry but this is a laughable statement. There’s plenty that can be done. And it happens every day in northern cattle country.

The first time there was a wolf hunt in Minnesota I am pretty sure hunters filled their quota and the season was shut down before the trapping season ever began. The second hunt was shut down by a judge in the middle of the season and there was no compensation for those that bought and paid for a tag that they could no longer use.
F the wolves and F the people that protect them.

Red Eye wrote:

Sorry but this is a laughable statement. There’s plenty that can be done. And it happens every day in northern cattle country.

Ok, let me re-phrase that. You can’t LEGALLY do something about it until the feds de-list them. The law clearly states you cannot use deadly force unless its to protect human life. Shooting or trapping a wolf because its attacking a dog or a calf is in fact illegal at this time. A licensed federal contracted trapper can be called in to address it.

I’m not saying I wouldn’t have the inkling to do something if my livestock or dog was in imminent danger though. I’m simply the messenger and I’m only quoting what law says.

Red Eye wrote:

The second hunt was shut down by a judge in the middle of the season and there was no compensation for those that bought and paid for a tag that they could no longer use.
F the wolves and F the people that protect them.

Man, you really have some anger don’t you. Maybe take it up with the federal judge that de-listed them.

grubson wrote:

There’s no documentation of wolves surviving on fish and beavers anywhere other than in VNP. We all know they’re opportunistic and will eat anything but their main food source all around their range is big game. It’s a direct result of the lack of their preferred food source that they’re seeing so much predation on non big game animals.

So you’re saying all those Wolves in Alaska/Montana that eat Salmon/Trout aren’t documented?

Bears also primarily eat nuts, fruits, grubs ect, but when those fish run guess where you find the bears?

I would bet there are more Deer in this state than there were 100 years ago, so I’m not too concerned.

Just to note, I’m not for or against Wolves. Are they taking a hit on a deer population in the NE, probably. But, I am sure there are other plays at hand as well.

Last summer the state trappers were called to 3 farms around my place. They took 15 wolves out in a 8 mile stretch. And didn’t take em all. Seems like to many to me. And that’s only the onesie that I know of.

TillrLife wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>grubson wrote:</div>
There’s no documentation of wolves surviving on fish and beavers anywhere other than in VNP. We all know they’re opportunistic and will eat anything but their main food source all around their range is big game. It’s a direct result of the lack of their preferred food source that they’re seeing so much predation on non big game animals.

So you’re saying all those Wolves in Alaska/Montana that eat Salmon/Trout aren’t documented?

Bears also primarily eat nuts, fruits, grubs ect, but when those fish run guess where you find the bears?

I would bet there are more Deer in this state than there were 100 years ago, so I’m not too concerned.

Just to note, I’m not for or against Wolves. Are they taking a hit on a deer population in the NE, probably. But, I am sure there are other plays at hand as well.

There’s a difference between eating fish and beavers out of opportunity and surviving on them. Like I said, we all know they’ll eat anything if the opportunity arises. Otherwise find me studies done anywhere where wolves are surviving on small game. The only thing close I remember reading was also made into the movie called Never Cry Wolf. In that situation arctic wolves were surviving on mice and lemmings because the caribou had left the area.

Our hunting in zone 126 up around Hovland/Grand Portage took a nose dive after the 2017 rifle season. I have a detailed hunting journal going to to 1989. In the subsequent years we had a several big snow and cold winters, as well as a lot of deer, wolves, bear, and moose in our area, which is about 2 miles inland from Lake Superior covering over 4 square miles of hunting grounds.

The first notable change was the disappearance of moose sign and sightings in about 1998 – but there was still deer, bear, and wolf sign everywhere. I swear a guy could still hunt or set a tree stand just about anywhere and see deer most days. I didn’t realize at the time how good we had it. There were even multiple doe bonus tags for a few years in an effort to thin the herd to benefit the moose.

Then the bottom fell out starting in 2018. I walked a five mile loop the weekend after Thanksgiving last fall on 1” of of snow that was over a week old just to see what was going on after seeing one deer in 5 full days of hunting during the rifle season. I saw only one set of deer tracks that happened to have a set of wolf tracks following. During my time in woods last fall I only a few small scapes and rubs. Areas that traditionally were always tore up from the rut had not be visited.

I asked a friend of ours who has a lifetime of hunting the area (he is 75) about what he thought was going on with the deer herd. He recalled seeing very few deer in the mid to late 70s, and then by the late eighties there were a lot of deer again, like there were in prior years to the low point in the cycle. He didn’t think it had to do with any one thing in particular (logging, wolves, snow, etc.). He said he thinks the current situation is likely part of a long cycle.

Irregardless I will still be going out, enjoying myself, observing, learning, and hunting.

One thing I have noticed the last few years is more deer sightings much further inland than the traditional deer range along the shore. There always were some in those areas that migrate down to the lake after the rut, or sooner if there are some big snows early, as well as a few groups of deer that would over-winter in yards up around Gunflint lake. During the heyday our friends from the Thunder Bay Ontario area were enjoying some great deer hunting after their moose population dried up.

There are more beaver than ever so I assume the wolves are making some hay on that front, but I have to imagine that the dearth of deer is making it a struggle, and they seem to be getting less concerned about being in proximity of humans. In fact I saw a wolf within 50 yards of our camp this past August when I was walking down the trail to my garden. At about 40 feet it stopped walking, looked at me over it’s shoulder, and casually lifted his leg to pee before jumping off the trail into the woods.

People should go on believing that the success rate for the wolf hunts was 5%….