New stand locations in wooded areas.

How do you go about choosing a stand location in a wooded area?

I have an area where a wooded finger of high ground crosses a creek. I believe the deer are using this crossing area because it allows them to stay in thick cover rather than just crossing out in the open where only grass lines the creek banks and they would be easily seen.

What I believe is happening is that in the mornings, deer are being pushed by the owners of neighboring properties as they go out into their stands and they are escaping across this creek and into the sanctuary on my property. I want to intercept them at this pinch point which is on the way to the sanctuary.

The problem I’m encountering is the struggle between being close enough to be able to see in this heavily wooded/brushy area vs being too close so that I risk being seen by approaching deer.

I’m currently running a cam in this area to try to figured out where the deer are moving, but this is slow work when there are multiple trails, but only one can be covered by a given cam.

As an added problem, there isn’t one single trail through this wooded creek crossing. The wooded strip is about 70 yards wide and there are trails everywhere through the thick brush. It’s not possible to see edge to edge, this strip is so thick with brush, which is why the deer are using it.

I can think of 2 options:

1. Put up a stand and try to hide it as best I can, such that the deer would hopefully be on top of me before they saw me. The downside to this approach is that the more hidden the stand is, the lower my visibility is in the thick brush. In other words, they can’t see me very well, but I can’t see the deer very well either.

2. Try to put up an observation stand back away from the crossing area and see if I can see or hear movement that narrows down how the deer are approaching the stand. Then be ready to move the stand if the movement pattern can be narrowed down.

The downside I can see to approach 2 is that all the noise and scent spread by moving stands around will almost certainly tip off the deer. I would also have to cut a new access trail and sight lines because this area is so thick that cutting trails is a must.

I’m happy to hear other ideas about how to best place this stand. Picture/drawing attached.

Grouse

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I think I would put a stand a ways back from the crossing area so that you have line of sight to the crossing area and cut a shooting lane across the strip of woods so you can see in.

It would probably be beneficial to put a stand on the north and south sides so that you can play the wind if necessary. North or south (picture wise) wind then you are covered to shoot through the area.

Otherwise put a stand in your sanctuary side in the middle of the wood strip so you can shoot to either side. This does kind of defeat the purpose of the sanctuary though.

I actually encountered the same problem this year on my property. Being that my land is in 601, I have to worry less about spooking the deer with scent or noise. I can see multiple deer trails from one location, but can only get an efficient shot from one at a time. What I did was put a stand up in a location where I could see the other trails, even if I couldn’t get a shot. I sat in the stand and discovered that trail use was completely random between bucks and does.

Since my strip is only about 40-50 yards, I am thinking about clearing one long shooting lane across this spring. The does seems to come and go wherever they please, but the big boys tend to stay towards the center in the thickest of brush. Getting to the stand I setup is a challenge in itself as it’s in the far Southwest corner of my property and my access is in the Northeast…

Set 3 stands across the opening/ brushy area(north to south) in the best locations to hide you, but where you can still see the deer movement(even if it’s to late to shoot at them). If you have time this weekend sit in the middle stand and try to determine the favorite travel pattern, if not then sit in the middle stand on opening day and try to determine it. Once you determine the favorite travel area relocate to that stand. A quick move from one stand to another if done properly shouldn’t affect the deer travel too much. Having several stands set up prior to the season will eliminate much of the scent and noise of moving a stand during the season.

You are never going to be able to cut off this travel corridor completely from one stand without doing a major clearing thru it north to south. Now is NOT the time to do that. Find 3 good stand locations now and set the stands so you are ready for opening day.

Make the stands easy access stand to, like ladder stands, so you can easily and quietly get in and out of them.

I wouldn’t do any clearing of shooting lanes this late in the game. Try to place your stands where you can get the best shots, but still have good cover for the hunter. Just don’t expect to take 100 yards shots.

Bottom line is be mobile in an area like this.

realtreeap10 wrote:

I think I would put a stand a ways back from the crossing area so that you have line of sight to the crossing area and cut a shooting lane across the strip of woods so you can see in.

Otherwise put a stand in your sanctuary side in the middle of the wood strip so you can shoot to either side. This does kind of defeat the purpose of the sanctuary though.

I’m leaning in the direction of cutting a shooting lane from the north to the south (roughly). Good suggestion.

You are 100% on target with the reason why the stand cannot go on the sanctuary side (west side) of the creek. My “camp” is further to the west so my approach direction to this stand would then have to be from west to east and that would disturb my entire sanctuary with either scent or noise or both.

Right now, I have a bridge across the creek on the very south edge of the map. So I can go down a trail that completely avoids my sanctuary, cross the creek on a nice bridge, and the go straight north to the proposed new stand area.

As it stands right now, I have an access trail that goes within 40 yards of this proposed new stand location, so access to this east side of the creek is actually easier than it is to access the west side.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

Grouse

Could you drop some trees or pile brush, blocking a couple of the least used trails in hope it would give them less choices to use coming through?

My first instinct would be to try and find the heaviest trails, hang one stand on the north side of them and one stand on the south side of them. One for each wind direction. Sit it to see what happens and make modifications from there. I always try to avoid making big shooting lanes because in the end the deer seem to just avoid them as well once they catch on.

Good Luck!

Sticker, the “trees” that cross the creek in the indicated area are really alder brush and not suitable for hanging a stand. This brush is 10-15 feet high, but has no trunk mass for a stand anywhere actually “on” the finger that crosses the creek.

The birch and aspen trees that are big enough to support a stand are only present on the banks of the creek area where you see the treeline resume.

I don’t have 3 stands free, I have 2 ladder stands that could be installed on the east bank of the creek. Go with that even if I may not be able to see the whole area?

I thought about buying a hang on stand, but I hate hang on stands. They scare the crap out of me and because I hunt with a handgun, I need a shooting rail on all stands.

I realize I’m late in the game, but this is always an issue up in the tundra. I’ve found scouting when the leaves are on to be a fool’s errand and this year the issue has been compounded by it being so damn WET. I’ll have to cut a walking trail to approach the stands, there’s no alternative because the brush is so thick that every deer within a half mile would hear me approaching the stands if I left it as is.

I have also been having a little dispute with the neighbor on the east side of the creek and I now feel like we are on good enough terms that he won’t see a stand on this side of the creek as a major affront. For a long time the neighbor had treated the creek as the property line, but in fact I own a considerable chunk of land on the east side of the creek so he needed some time to get used to that fact. I didn’t want to be in his face, but I do want to make it clear that I intend to hunt what I own.

Grouse

super_do wrote:

Could you drop some trees or pile brush, blocking a couple of the least used trails in hope it would give them less choices to use coming through?

Hmmmmm. This had never occurred to me, but this has MAJOR possibilities for the off-season. A little roadblock in this area could further funnel the already restricted funnel.

I’m going to use this year as a “trial year” and see if my theory about the deer movement matches reality, but then I may be up for this. In the winter, this area is easy to access because the swamp is frozen.

Great observation.

Grouse

Just an FYI.. I have seen trails altered by using rope…. seriously, they are kind of like us, lazy and take the easiest path possible.

Pat McSharry wrote:

I always try to avoid making big shooting lanes because in the end the deer seem to just avoid them as well once they catch on.

I agree, the issue with shooting lanes is that they point straight back to the stand. Some kind of a lane is a necessary evil in this location, however, because the brush is just so thick. Even up in a stand, visibility is 20 feet or less out in the middle of his “finger”.

The reason I’m keyed in on this area is that I have another stand along to creek off the north edge of the map I posted. I can routinely HEAR deer cross the creek somewhere to the south of this stand because I can hear the grass and the ice crunching as they cross the wet ground somewhere down here. I have long believed they are moving to get to this “finger” of trees and then cross in the cover.

Or at least that’s what I believe to be happening. I finally figured there’s only one way to find out, but I also had to spend some time this summer building a bridge to get me from the west, across the creek, all without going through my sanctuary.

Grouse

You could ‘make’ a preferred route also, not for this year but an off-season project. Don’t go too crazy, but then use some clippings to discourage other trails. It’s amazing how something as simple as running an atv through tall grass will alter how deer go through an area. Example, for the better part of the last decade I’ve made the same route through an overgrown pasture with my atv for checking on the property as well as accessing a trail camera located at some wild apples out in the pasture. Between a lack of time and somewhat on purpose the atv never set foot onto that area till late August, yet the deer still made trails down the exact same route I always cut with the atv, like they were conditioned to go that way even though I didn’t cut the trail(they didn’t go the way I cut prior to my starting to cut it back around 2008).

This fall, I’d go the observation route and maybe get lucky, but more about collecting as much info as you can about what they are doing.

Another warning, don’t expect the pattern to work forever, a few years of hearing a gunshot and then the associated sounds of getting a deer out of the woods and you will likely have ‘friends’ posting up just the other side of the property line. Happened to my honey hole, shooting one opening day 4 years in a row, now you can see two orange blobs about 20-30 yards on the opposite side of the line cutting off the two main escape routes the deer I was seeing come from. The deer figured this out also though (so now none of us see diddly squat in that area), so I am currently back to figuring out how the deer have adapted.

Sometimes you get lucky in that first ‘observation’ setup. This one came from the first year I sat in the above mentioned former honey hole. I was set up on the ground in a dead fall just off the crest of the ridge which gave me a good viewing of how the deer were moving through the draw I suspected them to be running through (much like you describe the movement you suspect in your area). He ended up 25 yards away from me when I popped him.

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Great topic and observations. Very interesting responses.

Hey grouse what is the buck sign like in there? could you possible put some mock scrapes and rub lines to make it more appealing to the buck travel? Looks to me like you have some work to do this winter creating a travel route that works for you, and like someone else said closing off other trails. good luck.

big_g wrote:

Just an FYI.. I have seen trails altered by using rope…. seriously, they are kind of like us, lazy and take the easiest path possible.

Good point! This would be quick and easy to do for this season without disturbing the area too much. I have also heard of people using snow fence for this.

The mock scrapes is also a great idea. Keep them on one trail thru the brush and the bucks will tend toward that trail.

I like this solution for this year, then like mentioned above, get in this winter once you have determined a good stand location and favorite trail and hinge cut like mad. Not only to give them browse for winter feed but also to funnel the deer to a certain trail. This could turn into a great winter project.

This has been a really great discussion, I appreciate all the input.

Choosing stand locations, to be honest, has been an area where I’ve been pretty frustrated over the past 4-5 years. In the past, I used to rely very heavily on fresh snow in the early season to really understand the movement patterns in detail. Well, we no longer get snow during the whole of most seasons, so that’s left me scrambling to try to figure out other ways to determine movement patterns more precisely. I’ve got a lot to learn in this area.

Also, my property is in an area that sees heavy hunting pressure. This is really frustrating because I can’t believe how BAD the other hunters are. Riding ATVs right to stands, I can smell smoking on stands, I can hear guys crashing through brush because they don’t bother to clear trails in, etc. So one of the main things that I’m trying to learn how to factor in is how to hunt the escape routes that the deer are using to get away from the “rush to the stand” that happens just before dawn.

Here’s my game plan for this coming season based on the advice here. Longer term plans will follow depending on what I see with this game plan.

I’ve got questions noted in the plan.

1. I’m going to place a small ladder stand in an area with the best visibility I can find. I’ll cut a minimal trail into the stand to allow me to get in there quietly. I have an excellent trail that goes within 30-40 yards of the stand location, so I should be able to cut a trail with minimal disturbance.

2. Creating a mock scrape seems like a good idea, but…

Question: What I’m anticipating is that the reason deer will be going through this pinch point is because they are being pushed by the owners of small properties to the southeast and east. Will the mock scrape help in this situation?

3. If I find deer movement, but the deer are out of sight then it’s going to be an on the fly call. Either move the stand, or hand-saw some brush to try to block off the preferred route.

4. It would probably help to have a hang on stand so I can move it more easily, but hang ons scare the bejeezus out of me. They’re just so dang small and then climbing up using dinky climbing sticks, etc, etc. I’m sticking with a ladder stand unless somebody really can convince me this is the worst idea in the world.

5. I’m running cams in this area now, but again, back to my anticipation that this pinch point is a travel route, but it gets more use to get away from other hunters to get to my sanctuary once the woods turn orange on opening morning. So question…

Question: What are the best trail cam moves here?

My plan is basically trail cam run and gun. Move the cam as often as possible to see what I can see. I’m going to check the existing cam on Saturday using my smartphone to get an on-the-spot view of what’s going on. I then may or may not move the cam depending on what it’s catching.

Then I’m going to move a second cam into this area, but I won’t be able to check this 2nd cam until opening morning on the way to the stand.

Again, excellent discussion and advice.

Grouse

Grouse,

In thick cover like that, you might be surprised how close you can be without the deer giving much of a darn. The stand I used to hunt was in such thick cover I couldn’t see 40 yds anywhere, most directions 20 or so…but the deer would walk right under me sneaking through that stuff. Instead of shooting lane, have you considered just a helpful “trail”? Just enough to encourage the deer to use it.

Speaking of really thick cover: I know you’re a long gun fan, but in the thick woods with shorter ranges it’s hard to beat a 20 gauge w/a rifled slug barrel. Just a thought…I’ve been looking to replace my rifle with one for just that reason.
Good luck!

-Rev

The mock scrapes will get the deer using one trail, but not only to check the scrapes. Soon it will be a preferred trail and they won’t only use it to check scrapes, but use it to escape.

Nothing wrong with a ladder stand, I have moved more to ladders than any other type of stand. Sep up is easier and faster as is entry and exit. A climber might be a good option here too. They are easy to climb with, have a shooting rail, and most are very comfortable. The summit viper aluminum one is super light and easy to pack in.

Trail cams placement in a “scatter area” is going to be tough to predict. For the cams to be effective you really need to narrow down the trail options. I would definitely put one on the trail with your mock scrapes though.

reverend wrote:

Grouse,

In thick cover like that, you might be surprised how close you can be without the deer giving much of a darn.

Speaking of really thick cover: I know you’re a long gun fan…

-Rev

Rev, good point about the cover and it’s going to have to be a short range game this year because I don’t want to disturb the area any more than necessary.

As far as weapon choice, I’m actually a short-short gun guy for deer. As in handgun. For the last 12 years, I’ve hunted and so far have taken 2 bucks with a Thompson Center Contender. I’m now shooting a Super 14 barrel in 7-30 Waters. This puts a lot of limitations on shot selection, I really need a stand with a rail rest and I need to get CLOSE.

Grouse

sticker wrote:

The mock scrapes will get the deer using one trail, but not only to check the scrapes. Soon it will be a preferred trail and they won’t only use it to check scrapes, but use it to escape.

Good thinking, I like this.

Two questions:

1. Where would you put the scrape per the diagram? I’m thinking west side of the creek, just as the deer hit “dry land” and just on the east edge of my sanctuary. Hopefully this would encourage 2-way crossing on the “dry land” across the creek.

2. What’s your preferred scent for a mock scrape or do you just scrape the ground and let the “disturbed earth” smell be the attractor?

Grouse

I’d put one on each side of the crossing and one in the middle. Make a scrape line. I like having one on each side also as a 2 way(north/ south, east/west) intersection, but make a scrape line. This will keep bucks and does using this trail to check the scrape line.

I don’t use scent on my mock scrapes, I find a good location with an overhanging branch, break, but not break off a few little limbs, then scrape the ground up. Make it look like a buck racked the branch with his head gear, then went after the dirt. It’s a visual thing until the first deer uses it. I have been known to urinate in my mock scrapes. Some experts say deer can’t tell human urine from deer urine. They just know it’s not theirs.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

How do you go about choosing a stand location in a wooded area?

Imagine all the trees are gone and your looking at a blank field. Then study the contours and how they relate to food, water, safety, and shelter. From there, you should find at least 2 or 3 primary trails with secondary trails extending along or off of those.

Then locate easy access points to enter/leave with minimal disturbance to those intersections of secondary and primary trails.

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2. What’s your preferred scent for a mock scrape or do you just scrape the ground and let the “disturbed earth” smell be the attractor?

Grouse

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What comes out of the thing tween my legs.

Not kidding.

Update for everyone. Thanks for the excellent advice.

Here’s what I ended up doing:

1. I placed a ladder stand at the north end of trees on the east side of the creek in the picture (see original post) so that I can see into the open grass area to the north and the brush to my south.

2. I walked into the brush that forms the crossing route over the creek and the brush is a maze of deer trails. I made 2 mock scrapes in the crossing area.

3. I will not be able to see into the crossing area from my stand, but I can see at least one “approach” route that is open to the south and one to the north. But I’ll certainly be able to hear if deer cross and that should help me pinpoint where they are coming from and going to, so another stand move may soon follow.

I’ll post updates in the Live from the Treestand thread. Many thanks.

Grouse