New Rifle Purchase Opinions Wanted

I’m thinking about getting my 14 year old son a rifle for the upcoming deer season. The problem is that I know very little about rifles. I’ve never even shot a center-fire rifle. Growing up in Iowa, I hunted deer and even coyotes with a shotgun. I’m pretty sure I’ll go with a 30-06 caliber, bolt action, synthetic stock, and stainless barrel and hopefully stainless everything else that is metal. Looking a Cabelas’ website, this seems to be the options for a composite stalk and stainless barrel starting from the lowest priced and going up for the entry level guns.

Savage 16/116 Trophy Hunter XP with Nikon Scope, 8.2 lbs, $699
Ruger American All-Weather, No Scope, 6.2 lbs, $499
Remington Model 700 SPS, No Scope, 7.38 lbs, $624
Tikka T3 Lite Stainless, No Scope, 6.2 lbs, $649
Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker, No Scope, 6.5 lbs, $999

I want to get him something that he can be happy with for years to come but yet I don’t want to spend a couple thousand dollars for a gun that will probably only be used a couple of times a year. From the reviews I’ve read, they all seem to shoot 1.5″ groups or better at 100 yards so that should be plenty good for the deer hunting I think he’d do. (Basically I think he’ll hunt the Wisonsin youth season and maybe a day or two during the regular season.)

Any input on the above guns or other suggestions? It seems like the Ruger, Remington, and Tikka are closely priced so the cost difference between those wouldn’t be a deciding factor. Also, what would a good quality scope and mounting cost for this type of gun?

What would you choose and why? Thanks for your help.

Boone

boone wrote:

I’m pretty sure I’ll go with a 30-06 caliber,

I’m a frequent poster on one part of this topic. Be very wary of going to something of this caliber for a young shooter/hunter. Often it’s better to get a smaller caliber, less recoil, so the young hunter doesn’t “fear” the rifle.

30 years after shooting my deer rifle for the first time, I’m still fighting that flinch I developed. Got one of the prettiest, nicest deer rifles in .270. Problem is the awesome deer rifle was too much gun for my age, size, and experience at that time. Wish I would have done something smaller like a .243.

For other advice, tell us where you plan on hunting and what kind of shots expected?

boone wrote:

Remington Model 700 SPS, No Scope, 7.38 lbs, $624

Do any of you know if the triggers are fixed on the new 700’s? I used to know all the details on the saga but not sure what’s currently coming off the production lines.

I have spent many years in the gun industry through College and to start my professional career. Pat nailed it, .30-06 is a big round for a child.

.243 is a great round, especially if you decide you would like to coyote hunt also. I have rifles in .223, .243, .270, .308, .30-06 and .25-06. Of all those calibers, .243 is more than enough to get the job done on most any animal you will find in the Midwest. Sure, you will find superior rounds, but the balance of felt recoil and effectiveness is perfect for a child.

When it comes down to gun, most all are quality pieces. One magazine a year or two ago compared the Mossberg MVP to Savage, Tikka, Remington and even some high end custom rifles. They found that the particular MVP they tested was more accurate…I am not a fan of anything Mossberg, but they can actually compete with nicer firearms.

Of the guns you listed, all are good options. If you want a gun that will stand the test of time and also look great, I do not think Tikka can be beat. They are light, balanced and incredibly strong. Ruger American rifles have really came a long way and are also great for the budget minded individual. Remington has a great track record, but also a few hiccups along the way that have began to shy folks in other directions. Miroku, who is manufacturing most firearms for Browning does an excellent job of fit and finish.

Once you find the rifle and caliber you like, DO NOT overlook a good scope and mounts. There’s no faster way to damper a quality rifle than putting a crappy scope on it. Leupold, Vortex, and some Nikon scopes are very well made. Some say you should spend as much on a scope as you do the gun, that does not need to be the case. I have found that most any scope from a quality manufacturer in the $2-300 range is a good balance of quality and affordability. Sure, a $40 Simmons scope will work, but once you hold it up to a better option, you will know why I recommend a quality scope.

It is impossible to go wrong with the Tikka. I’ve yet to see or hear of a Tikka that wouldn’t do better than 1 inch groups at 100 yards and the 2 Tikkas I own (.22-250 and .243) shoot .75 or better. I’ve shot touching 5 shot groups with both of these rifles. Tikka is Sako quality at a $1000 discount. If you’re looking to make a lifetime purchase, this is the rifle.

The Ruger American is a very nice rifle and I recently helped forum member Tegg work up loads for his new American in .270. This rifle is very, very good at an attractive price. I would not call it “pretty”, but it is highly functional for the price.

I would comment along the same lines as PatK. Has your son shot a .30-06, or indeed any centerfire bigger than .223?

Recoil sensitivity is a very real problem. So many of today’s kids do not get to shoot real firearms very often, so they do not have the benefits that many of us oldsters had of getting used to progressively heavier calibers over a period of time.

I think it’s worth thinking about what his future hunting needs will be. I’m a big fan of the .30-06, but it’s worth thinking about if now is the time/place.

Also, consider that with today’s advances in bullet construction, there is a very real increase in terminal performance over what our fathers and grandfathers experienced. I hear all the time now of sportsmen and women taking .30-06s and .270s on safaris for plains game now and the guides prefer it because the performance is there, but the guns are still shootable without lots of flinching.

Grouse

Cabelas lists the Remington Model 700 as having an adjustable trigger.

I’ve had a discussion with a coworker about the .243 vs. the 30-06. He said that if recoil and flinching is a concern, which it is, to shoot the Remington Managed Recoil or the Hornady Lite. These are a 125 gr. bullets. Remington shows a graph where recoil of their 125 gr. bullet is 10 ft-lb vs. 11 for a standard .243 cartridge. And they claim effective energy and bullet expansion out to 200 yards. My coworker questions the good bullet expansion claim.

Our hunting most likely would not give us a shot over 200 yards and most likely within 100-150 yards. We’re hunting farmland/wooded areas in west central Wisconsin.

My boy weighs about 125 pounds but I expect a growth spurt soon. He can shoot a couple rounds of trap using his compact model 20 gauge (a light gun) shooting trap loads without any problems typically hitting between 12-16 of the birds at 16 yds. He has taken a few turkeys using my 12 gauge Benelli Super Black Eagle shooting Hevi-Shot, 3.5″, magnum turkey loads but I would never let him shoot a paper target with that gun and load. It kicks like a mule and I’m afraid he’d start to flinch or fear the gun. But in the heat of the moment, it hasn’t caused any concerns. Maybe we could do our bench shooting with the light recoil loads and use a heavier cartridge when actually deer hunting if need be. I definitely understand your comments about the 30-06 being too big of a gun for a 14 year old and share your concerns. But I hope the reduced recoil loads could be used for a year or two until he gets bigger.

Boone

What’s your guys thoughts on the light recoil cartridges in a 30-06? Is that a good option until he gets larger and can better handle a standard 30-06 cartridge? My coworker is a big fan of the 30-06 because he claims it’s so versatile with many different factory cartridges available and feels the light recoil loads resolve the issue of too much recoil for smaller shooters.

Thanks for all the input.

Boone

.243 has my vote intil he is a little older then I would go .270 in winchester model 70 stainless featherweight. It is a nice looking gun that you could use for deer but it is also light enough weight wise to carry all day for antelope. Plus .270 is extremely flat shooting. The .243 is still small enough for coyotes if you are into that. Tikkas look nice but I dont own one nor have I shot one sadly.

TiKKa T3 .270

My vote would be anything in the short action calibers. 243, 7mm-08, 308, etc. Preferablly in a Remington 700. If he really gets into rifles, he’ll have countless options for upgrades, barrels, and potential caliber changes.

If my first rifle wasn’t my Dad’s 30-06, I’d have stripped her down built something different. It’s a good overall caliber, but so many others outperform.

7mm-08 is another light recoil rifle…..Does great on deer and dogs……

I’ll echo a few of the comments from above that I believe whole-heartily in.

Recoil/Flinching is something that every kid needs to be aware of, and learn from. It affects every kid differently. Most of thew time, you will only hear the negative side of it. By 12 years old, Olivia, my youngest daughter was shooting a 7mm Ultra mag off sitting with sticks.
Best advise for your son (if you haven’t done this already) is to take him to a range or suitable place and let him shoot. Let him try different calibers and let you know where his threshold is at. You might be surprised and find that he’s a gun junkie like me

Don’t burn his shoulder out. Use the lead sled and bench for target plinking and getting him accustom to the BANG. Its that repetition of recoil that will make his shoulder sore and hate shooting.

Of everything you listed, the only one I would consider for one of my daughters would be the Tikka T3 lite. Easy to swap out to a Boyd stock later if desired. For all the Tikkas I load for, they have been the most consistent machining, action, and over-all performance. I have Tikkas in 22-250, 270WSM, and 270WIN. All 3 are MOA with factory ammo and from 1/2 to 1/4 MOA with my hand loads. Very accurate tools.

As for caliber, I would consider two – a .243 and the 270WIN. Of those, I would get the 270win if he was comfortable with it. There isn’t much difference in kick and sound between a 243 and 270. The 30-06 in my opinion is a dog compared to these 2. The ’06 requires more grains of powder and more pressure to achieve similar results as the 270. There for louder and more recoil to only do about the same.

Not sure where your located, but if your in the area…get ahold of me. I’ll make sure he has a lot of fun at the local range as my guest and he’ll get to shoot a variety of calibers

As for scopes – That Nikon that comes on the Savage package is a dog turd. Its as cheap as they get and they play off of the very old reputation that Nikon had many years ago. No secret that I’ve been a huge fan of the Burris upper end of scopes. I own a lot of them and probably will never let them go. However, I’ve done a lot of research on different manufactures and the entire manufacturing process. If I were to buy any new scope in a mid-range to entry level it would be a Athlon scope. I was at their booth during shot show and was blown away at the quality Vs price point. If you think your getting better value with a different manufacture at the same price, I’ld argue with you all day long. Optics Planet has most in stock and they are worth taking a strong look at. You would be surprised the quality level you get at a reasonable price

I have a savage in 7mm-08 it replaced my Sako 7mm Rem Mag. I am recoil sensitive and was flinching so bad and not wanting to practice. When I sold the Sako I got the Savage in 7mm-08 and a Marlin 336 in 30/30. Now my problem is having enough ammo ready for extended range sessions. Both guns are fun to shoot. My wife who has very limited shooting experience thinks the 30/30 is an awesome gun. She only managed 2 shot from my 12 ga citori and said she was done. I would pick any of the rifles you have listed and either .243 or 7mm-08. They are up to the task of any deer. The 7mm-08 can handle anything but Alaskan brown bears with the proper load. Good luck picking a gun out and let him shoot it as much as possible.

Mwal

In the long run, the 30.06 700 Remington is the best choice for the $$ IMO. If he holds the .06 tightly, it ain’t gonna scare him anymore than the noise of a .243 barking–IMO. If he can shoot a 12 gauge, he can use an .06! In the “long run” over the years, across ALL big game choices and scenarios, the 700 Remington 30.06 is 2nd to none for the $$. IMO. He is not gonna be 14 for very long…

FYI–the .243 will do the job IF he makes a good/well placed shot. If not…it can be a wounding machine. The 30.06/150 to 180 grain allows for more error as it will do more damage etc. no matter how well placed the shot is…IMO and based on 50 plus years of killing whitetails with them all and with others using all…

boone wrote:

What’s your guys thoughts on the light recoil cartridges in a 30-06? Is that a good option until he gets larger and can better handle a standard 30-06 cartridge? My coworker is a big fan of the 30-06 because he claims it’s so versatile with many different factory cartridges available and feels the light recoil loads resolve the issue of too much recoil for smaller shooters.

The theory is good, but in reality the point of impact will almost certainly change when switching to full power ammo, so you would have to check and likely re-zero the rifle with every change to/from the light ammo.

Or just use the light ammo for hunting. From your description of your hunting, your son certainly doesn’t need magnum power to bring down a deer. Magnumitius is so entrenched in today’s deer hunting world that it’s hardly noticed anymore. But if you think about it, our fathers and grandfathers seemed to do just fine on whitetails without carrying fire-breathing magnums to the stand. The way it’s going these days, you’ll be laughed out of deer camp in 5 years if you show up with anything less than a .300 Win Mag.

The ultimate decider here would be to find a .30-06 and have your son shoot it. If you would like to meet me at the gun club sometime, I’m happy to bring a Tikka .243 and a .30-06 for comparison. Try before you buy, so to speak.

Grouse

I also have a youth .243 and full size Savage .270 that I could bring down next time I’m at my mom’s in SSP. I think u will be down in July.
DT

Thanks to everyone for all the great information. I’ve tried to read up on the ballistics of the 270 and 30-06 to see how they compare and I can’t see much of a difference. It seems like the 270 is typically offered in 130-150 grain bullets while the 30-06 it typically offered 150-180 grains. A 270 shooting a 130 grain bullet is slightly faster than a 30-06 shooting a 150 grain bullet at 200 yards (2580 vs. 2400) but both have the same energy of 1920.

Randy…I remember your post about your daughter going elk hunting out in Colorado. If an elk trip were in the future in a few years, would a 30-06 be any better than a 270? It seems the larger 180 grain bullet from a 30-06 would be better for a large animal like an elk than a 150 grain from a 270 but if the energies are equal, maybe it doesn’t make a difference. Your posts are always very informative and educational so I’m trying figure out why you think the 30-06 is a “dog”. Your comment and a couple of others suggesting a 270WIN is making me question my original decision to go with the 30-06. From what I can tell based on the ballistic charts and graphs I’ve seen, there’s not much difference between the two.

Thanks Randy, Grouse, and DT for offering to let us shoot your guns. I think my fishing/waterfowl hunting buddy also has a 30-06 and I believe he has a .243 for his girl friend so I’ll get ahold of him to test shoot the guns.

I also did some looking on-line at the Athlon scopes and some other brands. There sure are a ton of choices out there so that’ll be another tough decision. And the mounting rings…. more things to learn about. Shotguns are so much simpler… basically 20 or 12 gauge and few shell choices.

Thanks,

Boone

boone wrote:

Thanks to everyone for all the great information. I’ve tried to read up on the ballistics of the 270 and 30-06 to see how they compare and I can’t see much of a difference. It seems like the 270 is typically offered in 130-150 grain bullets while the 30-06 it typically offered 150-180 grains. A 270 shooting a 130 grain bullet is slightly faster than a 30-06 shooting a 150 grain bullet at 200 yards (2580 vs. 2400) but both have the same energy of 1920.

Randy…I remember your post about your daughter going elk hunting out in Colorado. If an elk trip were in the future in a few years, would a 30-06 be any better than a 270? It seems the larger 180 grain bullet from a 30-06 would be better for a large animal like an elk than a 150 grain from a 270 but if the energies are equal, maybe it doesn’t make a difference. Your posts are always very informative and educational so I’m trying figure out why you think the 30-06 is a “dog”. Your comment and a couple of others suggesting a 270WIN is making me question my original decision to go with the 30-06. From what I can tell based on the ballistic charts and graphs I’ve seen, there’s not much difference between the two.

Thanks Randy, Grouse, and DT for offering to let us shoot your guns. I think my fishing/waterfowl hunting buddy also has a 30-06 and I believe he has a .243 for his girl friend so I’ll get ahold of him to test shoot the guns.

I also did some looking on-line at the Athlon scopes and some other brands. There sure are a ton of choices out there so that’ll be another tough decision. And the mounting rings…. more things to learn about. Shotguns are so much simpler… basically 20 or 12 gauge and few shell choices.

Thanks,

Boone

Let me add a BIG “congrat’s” for you wanting to intro your son to the hunting/outdoor world! In this day and age–that needs to be admired and respected!

Feel free to call me if you have any questions regarding the “high speed beef” hunting. Like your son, I was a little guy ( 9 years old) when I killed my first one ( a fawn doe with a 30.06) and now 50 plus seasons later ( bragging) I have around 140-150 more memories. You are VERY lucky….as is your son.

Boone,

this is my opinion and there will be an argument made either way. first of all, I settled into a 270short mag for myself. It suits my needs for the distances I shoot.

I’ve owned a few 30-06s, and plenty of 270wins. between target plinking, hunting, and reloading I’ve consistently gone back to the 270win. like you discovered by comparing the ballistic info, you deliver nearly the same energy with less . less charge, smaller bullet, less recoil….. the 270win, depending on load selection, is generally a slightly flatter trajectory. again, slightly.

no doubt that 180gr bullet out of an 06 is.going to do some serious damage on bear, moose,…. but how often will he do those hunts, and would opt for a better caliber/bullet selection? when looking at hunting applications, bullet selection is a HUGE factor in making a fair comparison. I use Barnes TSX bullets exclusively and that is an entirely different conversation. but when doing all my own butchering, it’s interesting to see the wound channel produced by different calibers and bullets. obviously, well placed shots are what they are and it doesn’tmatter what you use. the true and real factor is the marginal shots. we all experience it and anyone that says they place 100% perfect shots is a liar. I’ve always been very pleased with the amount of damage a 130 or 140 gr. bullet does. seeing lungs blown up, complete bruising of all internals, and minimal flesh damage. I see a lot more flesh damage with the 06, and not much difference in internal wounds. so it takes me back to achieving the same or more….with less.

either way, both a 06 and 270 are going to serve one well. heck, both have survived the test of time and will continue for future generations. I just find myself partial to the 270 for the above reasons

I agree with Randy’s last posting. .270/30.06 comparisons. VERY little difference. I do not like the .243 any where’s near as much–in the long run.

Lots of good comments already. I’ll throw in my 2 cents. The first rifle I got for my son was a 25-06. Light recoil, flexibility with bullet selection for everything anyone would most likely hunt in the lower 48 states. He has taken many deer and bears with it. He’s 25 now and has no intention of getting another rifle. The 25-06 is a very good caliber. Lots of good rifle makers out there to. His happens to be a Savage.

My daughter was started out on a Remington model 7 in a 243. She is 27 now and still uses it. She was/is a petite girl at about 95 lbs soaking wet and that gun is perfect for her.

boone wrote:

Thanks to everyone for all the great information. I’ve tried to read up on the ballistics of the 270 and 30-06 to see how they compare and I can’t see much of a difference. It seems like the 270 is typically offered in 130-150 grain bullets while the 30-06 it typically offered 150-180 grains.

Randy…I remember your post about your daughter going elk hunting out in Colorado. If an elk trip were in the future in a few years, would a 30-06 be any better than a 270?

The universal answer to “which gun” questions from big game guides around the world is to bring the biggest caliber (appropriate to/legal for the game) that you can shoot WELL. Guides would much rather work within the limitations of a smaller caliber than they would have an over-gunned client miss or wound.

I think that’s excellent advice. At the last SCI convention, I spoke at some length to a woman who had been on 3 safaris taking some wonderful plains game including the large antelope species and she did it all with an 06 because that was the biggest caliber she was comfortable with. It took some extra stalking to get shots at some of the species to close that extra 100 yards, but far better to be a light’s out shot at 200 than a Long Range Magnum Misser at 300.

I have taken 24 whitetail deer with a .30-06. It’s a tremendously versatile chambering. But I also have a .243 that drops whitetail stone dead with a 100 grain bullet. In honesty, there’s not a lick of difference between the 270 or 06 for your needs. Pick one and enjoy.

boone wrote:

Shotguns are so much simpler… basically 20 or 12 gauge and few shell choices.

Hey! Don’t be leaving out the 16 gauge.

Grouse

Bass_attack wrote:

.243 has my vote intil he is a little older then I would go .270 in winchester model 70 stainless featherweight. It is a nice looking gun that you could use for deer but it is also light enough weight wise to carry all day for antelope. Plus .270 is extremely flat shooting. The .243 is still small enough for coyotes if you are into that. Tikkas look nice but I dont own one nor have I shot one sadly.

r

I had that exact 270, very inaccurate and the kick is just as much as a 30-06. I would consider the 25-06 great gun kicks about the same as a 243 and is also a great gun for western huntin of antelope or mule deer.Very flat shooter.

25-06 is an awesome performing caliber in the right gun. but ammo is not always readily available in some areas

Would a modern in line muzzleloader be out of the question? No problem at that 100-150 yard range, knowing he has one shot will make him concentrate harder on getting one good shot off, and it is more ‘versitale’ with the varying seasons and state requirements in the upper midwest. I purchased a cva accura two years ago for the purpose of using it at the in laws (shotgun only area of mn), but I have found myself carrying it more in the wi gun season than my Remington 700. Patterns just as well, shoulders better for me.
Several of my friends/aquaintences who also hunt in the coulee country of western WI seem to get hung up on having something that will reach way out there, but in 22 gun seasons I think I’ve taken 1 shot farther than 100 yards (and missed). Last three gun killed deer were between 15 and 60 yards. I guess what I’m says is don’t get too hung up on a gun that needs to perform at 150+ yards.

Boone
There is a lot of great advice above on what caliber firearm to purchase. Caliber normally will not effect price at all. I have copied your prices below and added our Normal everyday price following. I also offer a 5% discount to any IDO members. Some of these we have in stock and some we would need to order. Stop down and we will show you what we have.

Savage 16/116 Trophy Hunter XP with Nikon Scope, 8.2 lbs, $699 4seasons 649.99 Cash Price $617.49
Ruger American All-Weather, No Scope, 6.2 lbs, $499 4seasons 479.99 Cash Price $455.99
Remington Model 700 SPS, No Scope, 7.38 lbs, $624 4seasons 589.99 Cash Price $560.49
Tikka T3 Lite Stainless, No Scope, 6.2 lbs, $649 4 Seasons 679.99 Cash Price $645.99
Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker, No Scope, 6.5 lbs, $999 4 Seasons $989.99 Cash Price 940.49

On top of a better price I promise you that your business means something to us. Remember you will get an additional 5% off of these prices if firearm sale is Cash and you mention IDO when you come to purchase.

How about a Howa?

Remington 700 in .308 is what I would get. But if your stuck on a 30-06 you could always have a muzzle break installed.

robby wrote:

How about a Howa?

great Guns, I own a few. price is generally higher than those listed above which I think would be over his budget

quo

steve-fellegy wrote:

In the long run, the 30.06 700 Remington is the best choice for the $$ IMO. If he holds the .06 tightly, it ain’t gonna scare him anymore than the noise of a .243 barking–IMO. If he can shoot a 12 gauge, he can use an .06! In the “long run” over the years, across ALL big game choices and scenarios, the 700 Remington 30.06 is 2nd to none for the $$. IMO. He is not gonna be 14 for very long…

FYI–the .243 will do the job IF he makes a good/well placed shot. If not…it can be a wounding machine. The 30.06/150 to 180 grain allows for more error as it will do more damage etc. no matter how well placed the shot is…IMO and based on 50 plus years of killing whitetails with them all and with others using all…

what Steve said.