New bullets, Old guns…

I have a late 90’s Remington 700 ADL SS in 270win, zeroed at 100yds with Federal Power-Shok 130gr. Also group tested Remington Core-Lokt 130gr, Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 130gr, and Federal Premium Berger Hybrid Hunter 140gr.

The Win Silvertips grouped the tightest at 0.75″ MOA, but the Fed Power-Shok and Rem Core-Lokt were respectable at 1″ MOA. None of them shoot identical but could be measured on the same 10″ target.

Enter the Federal/Berger Hybrid 140gr. 3 rounds, not a single hit aiming dead center of a 10″ target! The disturbed berm behind the target suggests all shots split the left post and rubber gong, and possible consistency in flight. Shooting multiple rifles and having limited time, I chose to not resight the scope and settle for documenting the data for a later time.

This ammo does fit more snuggly in the chamber and in other online chats/videos, I’m hearing others talking about the newer bullets with higher ballistic coefficient ratings not shooting as well in older makes/models because the barrel twist isn’t tight enough to control the lengthened bullet designs that accommodate the higher BCs.

Just wondering if anyone else is or has run into this? Antelope is the intended quarry so cutting wind drift appeals to me.

Or you could look at this conversely…. the newer guns do not like the older ammunition and loads. Either or. It seems today’s gun and ammunition makers are leaning towards factory products [ammo] being intended for specific guns [meaning specific twist rates]. For years the industry had standards that were met. Today things are all over the place because of so many twist rates that are used within a caliber, even in the venerable old .22. As bullets become more and more monolithic, bullet’s lengths get stretched out or shrunk, and the bc becomes more specific rate-of-twist dependant.

You might find that these new bullets shoot fine with some adjustment at the scope end, but then what will terminal results look like?

One thing it could be is the higher BC bullets require a higher twist in your barrel, which could be the issue. Longer bullets require tighter rifling to stabilize. If you get one to hit paper, and the bullet doesn’t make a perfectly round hole, but rather an oblong one, the bullet isn’t spiraling right when it leaves your barrel, and that would be my guess as to the situation. I bet the rifle you have has a 1-12″ or 1-14″ twist rate, where the ammo may require a 1-10″ twist. I would say if the Core Lok and the Federal are working, stick with them.

Edit- Never mind, I went back through your post and seen you had mentioned the length of the bullets. The other thing it could be, as you mentioned they feel tighter when cycling in your action of the rifle, the bullets could be seated to an overall length, that is too close to the lands of the barrel rifling as well. Some guns like the nose of the bullet right up in the barrel, while others like to have a little space. That was going to be my only other suggestion.

From the things I’m reading or seeing in reviews, I think you have a point J. J. I’ve seen a selection of newer rifles sporting 1:9, 1:8, and even 1:7.5 twist rates.

Steven, according to Remington, I have a 1:10 twist rate on this model, and this rifle sports a 22″ barrel length. IMO, I’d sure like to believe that two full rotations inside a barrel would be enough to stabilize any balanced projectile. I do wonder about the spacing of the lands though…

Berger bullets prefer a 1:8.7″ twist, the rem 700 adl has a 1:10 twist. Berger says their bullet will achieve marginal/minimal stability in that twist. From what I can see the “Fast Twist” barreled .270 is a thing that started a couple years ago because 1:10 isn’t supposed to be fast enough for the flat trajectory

At 270 velocities a 1:10 twist is perfectly sufficient to stabilize that 140 Berger; they even have a bullet stability calculator on their website. Odds are you rifle just REALLY didn’t like it and/or the POI was that different compared to the others.

Riverrat wrote:

Berger bullets prefer a 1:8.7″ twist, the rem 700 adl has a 1:10 twist. Berger says their bullet will achieve marginal/minimal stability in that twist. From what I can see the “Fast Twist” barreled .270 is a thing that started a couple years ago because 1:10 isn’t supposed to be fast enough for the flat trajectory

Thanks riverrat, I didn’t know the twist on the 270 adl off the top of my head. I just know that is a common problem. And I know from reloading, there is s headspace gauge you can get to measure what your overall length should be, so you can find out if they are too long.

Riverrat wrote:

Berger bullets prefer a 1:8.7″ twist, the rem 700 adl has a 1:10 twist. Berger says their bullet will achieve marginal/minimal stability in that twist. From what I can see the “Fast Twist” barreled .270 is a thing that started a couple years ago because 1:10 isn’t supposed to be fast enough for the flat trajectory

This answers another question for me… thanks! I was curious to know if a 1:9.5″ twist was tight enough, but not quite. I wanted to try this load in my 7mmRemMag as well… guess not.

stillakid2 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Riverrat wrote:</div>
Berger bullets prefer a 1:8.7″ twist, the rem 700 adl has a 1:10 twist. Berger says their bullet will achieve marginal/minimal stability in that twist. From what I can see the “Fast Twist” barreled .270 is a thing that started a couple years ago because 1:10 isn’t supposed to be fast enough for the flat trajectory

This answers another question for me… thanks! I was curious to know if a 1:9.5″ twist was tight enough, but not quite. I wanted to try this load in my 7mmRemMag as well… guess not.

Again, just check their website. Straight from the Berger data, in a 7mm, anything under 180 grains is generally good from a 1:10 twist minimum.

There is no blanket minimum twist rate for a given brand of bullets. This is dependent primarily on muzzle velocity, projectile length, and to some degree, air density (altitude).

stillakid2 wrote:

Enter the Federal/Berger Hybrid 140gr. 3 rounds, not a single hit aiming dead center of a 10″ target!

I’d just like to know definitively what is it about that 140 Berger that your rifle hates. I’d love to pull a bullet and just see is it the overall bullet length that is somehow exceptionally long?

Increasingly as shooters switch to copper bullets, I hear and read about the issues cropping up with twist rates being wrong for the copper bullets that are the same weight as all lead bullets that previously shot well. It used to be shooters only had to worry about matching twist rate to bullet weight, but now with copper, the length moves up a key consideration.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>stillakid2 wrote:</div>
Enter the Federal/Berger Hybrid 140gr. 3 rounds, not a single hit aiming dead center of a 10″ target!

I’d love to pull a bullet and just see is it the overall bullet length that is somehow exceptionally long?

Visually, I can’t say that I noticed anything drastically different, but when closing the bolt, I could certainly feel the snug fit.

I had some reman ammo for .308win that were snug like that, but the gun didn’t seem to care in that case. In fact, one box was exceptionally accurate.

If you PM me an address, want me to send you one to examine?