Need Help – 1st AR purchase – What Brand? What Caliber?

With the unknown of the political situation in regard to firearm purchase and ownership in the near future I’ve decided I want to get myself a AR platform gun. I wish I had the time and knowledge to do a self build, but I think I’ll go with a factory built one for my 1st purchase. Doing a little online research I could not believe how many manufacture and caliber choices there were out there. As far as brand goes, I have no clue where to start. I don’t think I want to go with any of the budget / entry level models. Nor do I have a endless budget at this time, so most of the top of the line models are out. As far as caliber – Once again – No idea. Its hard not to go with the 223 based on price. The 300 blackout has got my interest. Its crazy how wide of a range of bullet Gr. choices there are for the 300 blackout. As far as purpose goes, I think id say its mostly for defense and target shooting. I’m looking forward to hear all of your thoughts on brand and caliber choices. hopefully that will help narrow down my choices some.

Rock river makes a nice shooting rifle. Theyre on the heavy side but the barrels and triggers they use are choice. What’s your budget? Also, as always, don’t go cheap on optics

There are LOTS of manufacturers right now making quality AR platform rifles. Daniel defense, CMMG, Rock River, and Bravo Company Machine are a few that come to mind. For your first rifle my recommendation would be to go with something in a 223 Wylde or 556 chambering, as these will give you flexibility on ammunition choices, and range days are going to be relatively inexpensive in comparison to other calibers, although I do see a 6.8 SPC build in my near future….

Had this question last night at the range and consensus answers were the same as Waldo’s above. He nailed it.

You’re choices are endless, as the market is as about as saturated as it can get. Give us a budget, and if there are any specific features you want as “must have” items and we can narrow it down.
Prices are great right now, and even better for builds.
As far as caliber, I’d start with 556/223 for your first. 300blk is fun, really fun when suppressed, but it’s not cheap, and if you’re not going to suppress, 6.5 grendel would be a better hunting/target round.

If you’re just looking to have one before the 2020 elections, that’s well built and well respected, a rifle from Colt, Bravo Company, or FN would be what I recommend. Throw a Vortex Sparc II, sig romeo, or Holosun red dot on it and you’ve got a good HD/plinker package with quality fit & finish. Add a sling, a light, and a 10 pack of magpul 30 rounders.

You’ll find tons of people out there that will say their lower end stuff is “just as good.” Just as good is a phrase that gets tossed around so much that nobody even knows what that means any more. Joe Blow that puts 100 rounds a year through is DPMS oracle, ATI omni hybrid, Anderson, Radical, etc. may think his gun runs just fine. And for a gun that just sits in the safe except for the 2 or 3 times a year it gets shot, yeah, they work. but to the guys that run 2000-3000 rounds per year or more through their guns, they will say no thanks and point you to LMT/Larue/DD/Noveske/Seekins/BravoCo, and a whole host of other upper tier manufacturers that not only make & install components within specification, but back up their products with great customer service.

If you want to go the budget brand route in the future (I personally think everybody should have 2-3 elcheapos stashed for investment), look at Palmetto State Armory & Aero Precision. Two brands that offer for the most part a ton of bang for your buck, and good customer service, and really good prices.

Once you catch the black rifle bug though, building is where it’s at. You can set a budget, then really scour the web to find the best mix of parts within your budget to fit the plan for the build. Right now I’m building an AR pistol that will run suppressed, and my goal is fully assembled and sub MOA capable at 100 yards for under $600 minus optic and backup sights. I got a heck of a deal on a blemished 10.5″ barrel from a high end barrel maker so that was the reason to start the build. I’m also building an 18″ SPR style rifle that I’ll have nearly $600 into just for barrel and trigger, so that one is going to be a little higher end build, but should shoot 1/2 MOA or better. I’ll also have glass on that rifle that will cost more than the rifle did. Once that gun is complete, I’ll probably start to look at .224 valkerie and 6.5 grendel for future upper builds. maybe even one of the big bore calibers like 450 socom.

I have not even started to think of sight options yet. I’m most likely leaning towards Red Dot, Reflex, or Holographic style of sight over a Normal variable power scope. I think this 1st one would mostly be for fun style of target plinking rather than long range sub MOA accuracy. If I truly catch the bug ( Which I’m sure I will ) The next one will probably be a self build and that one will focus on the long range accuracy. As far as budget goes I’m not really sure. I guess I was thinking of staying in the 1200-1500 range. I’d like to think that price point should get me a decent gun above the budget level models.

Great info above, so I’m not going to repeat to much of it.

For cal. Go 556. I’ve shot a lot of 223 and the 556. Its subtle, but the 556 gets the nod for a little increased accuracy when reaching out a little further. A large majority of manufacture are selling a 223/556 anyways, so you good there. I would avoid the 223 only.

Beautiful part of the AR platforms is the endless supply of parts and accessories. I’m partial to Rock River just because I am. Quality gun builder as are 100’s of others. Just don’t get sucked into a “cheap” deal. If you see a ridiculously low price on one, there is a reason why. As long as you have a quality action and barrel, you caqn always upgrade parts as YOU want to

I would not be afraid of Palmetto State Armory. They have many low cost options and they have MANY satisfied customers.

Anyone have any knowledge or experience with either the Ruger SR556 or AR556. Looks like the SR556 is a takedown model that you can get a extra barrel in 300 BLK for. Reasonably priced units

fishthumper wrote:

Anyone have any knowledge or experience with either the Ruger SR556 or AR556. Looks like the SR556 is a takedown model that you can get a extra barrel in 300 BLK for. Reasonably priced units

Those are piston AR’s. 99% of AR’s are not. For your first one you may want to go with a normal blow back variety. Or not.

For $1200-$1500 including optic you can put together a rifle with proven performance from any number of manufacturers. Spike’s, Bravo Co., FN, Colt, Rock River, LMT, etc.

A Colt 6920-R plus an Aimpoint ACO plus some backup sights, sling, & mags will run you under $1500. If you’r going to spend $1000 on a rifle, don’t spend less than $300 on an optic. Budget optics are for budget builds.

I’ll second the rock river arms line. I use the Fred Eichler series for yotes but I would not hesitate to use it against a horde of zombies should the need arrive.

I notice there are a lot of offerings in short barrel models ( often with the title pistol ) some of these models come with barrels as short as 8-10″. I also notice that some of the shorter barreled models refer to a Brace Vs a stock ( Both look the same to me ) What are the current legal requirements for purchase of the various different types of AR’s? Does the barrel length or brace/stock type make a difference in purchase requirements. I thought all that was needed for purchase was a valid CC permit. If hunting or long range target shooting is not the intended purpose, Is one of these short barrel models the way to go? I guess I always only thought of them in regards to law enforcement or military situations. I really like some of the offerings from Larue and CMMG – Both are a bit more $’s than I was thinking of spending. I’m sure like a lot of equipment you get what you pay for.

The difference between an AR Pistol and an SBR are that one has a rifle butt stock and one has a pistol “brace”. The SBR requires a tax stamp to be legal to own, the pistol is just that, an AR platform pistol that needs no additional paperwork. Again, I think for your first AR, and learning the ins and outs of the platform I would still recommend something with a 16″ barrel. This will be a very good all around rifle that will do most anything you ask of it. 225/556 out of those short barrels can be unpleasant at times

waldo9190 wrote:

The difference between an AR Pistol and an SBR are that one has a rifle butt stock and one has a pistol “brace”. The SBR requires a tax stamp to be legal to own, the pistol is just that, an AR platform pistol that needs no additional paperwork. Again, I think for your first AR, and learning the ins and outs of the platform I would still recommend something with a 16″ barrel. This will be a very good all around rifle that will do most anything you ask of it. 225/556 out of those short barrels can be unpleasant at times

So how long does the barrel need to be in order to purchase it without a tax stamp? So your saying the Short barreled models with a Brace do not need a tax stamp, but if you buy the same gun with a “stock” it does correct ?

You are correct! The combined length with the barrel/muzzle device has to be 16″. You are allowed to have say a 14.7″ barrel, but then your muzzle device has to be pinned/welded in place to make a permanent length of 16″. The 16″ barrel, especially for a 223/556 AR is by far the most common, especially with off the shelf rifles.

For your first gun, ignore anything under 16″. Then get on an AR forum and read all the introduction sticky posts explaining the ins n outs of the NFA and how the ATF interprets short barreled rifles, pistols, pistol braces, etc.

Then for your next gun buy a 10.5″ AR pistol with an SBA3 brace on it and enjoy the fireballs & freedomz.

fishthumper, I don’t have much to add as most have covered this topic extremely well for you. I too, recently purchased my first AR for several reasons you listed. You won’t regret it! These rifles are as fun as it gets to shoot. I’ve only been to my indoor range as I just purchased this in January but can’t wait for good weather to shoot out in the open at longer ranges. I asked friends and Rock River received many thumbs up (I have an X1). Mine is chambered .223 Wylde to offer flexibility when purchasing ammunition. Seemed to find better bulk ammunition prices this way which was an additional motive for me (223/556). I found a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6×24 scope which seems to be versatile for indoor/close range as well as ranges for coyotes and prairie dogs if you go this route.

fishthumper wrote:

Anyone have any knowledge or experience with either the Ruger SR556 or AR556. Looks like the SR556 is a takedown model that you can get a extra barrel in 300 BLK for. Reasonably priced units

I have the Ruger AR556 that you asked about. Never had a bit of trouble with it. I took it Prairie Dog Hunting 2 years ago and fired around 1000 rounds thru it with no trouble. I bought it at a gun show for $399 new, so figured I couldn’t go too wrong.

Can I get a little clarification on the whole .223, .223 Wylde, 5.56 situation. It is my understanding that you can shoot standard .223 Rem. ammo in a 5.56 barrel but not 5.56 in a .223 barrel. Not real sure how the .223 Wylde works. I would assume that you most likely could not shoot the 5.56 in that barrel

You are correct again! 5.56 in a 223 Rem. chambered barrel is a no-no. 223 Wylde is a “wildcat” if you will, that is more-so the happy medium chambering between the two. I don’t have the figures at my finger tips, but Wylde maintains the taper dimensions of the 5.56, but the freebore of the chamber is maintained at 0.224. In a nutshell, 223 REM ammo is generally a bit more accurate out of a Wylde chamber than a 5.56 when you start to stretch things out. For what it sounds like you will be using the rifle for, either chambering would suffice.

223 Rem Chamber = 223 Rem Ammo ONLY
5.56 NATO Chamber = 223 REM or 5.56 Ammo
223 Wylde Chamber = Either or (Generally more accurate)

My strongest advise is to be very careful if you have both the .223/5.56 and the 300AAC so that you do not inadvertently try to fire the 300AAC in your 5.56/.223. Yes, they will chamber and yes, there have been many catastrophic failures recorded. Though none have caused any deaths that I am aware of, it is just a matter of time.

There are very few bullets available for the 300AAC that will give consistent, reliable expansion on whitetails (or vertical vermin). The 125gr SST may be the best of them readily available. Otherwise, the cartridge was initially intended for subsonic velocities using 200+ grain projectiles for removal of sentries, etc. From a practical standpoint in the real world, it has limited duty.

From a practical standpoint for deer hunting (or defense), the calibers available where factory ammo will be readily available are in a short list. As mentioned, the 5.56/.223 is the #1 choice, with a twist rate fast enough to stabilize 68/69 to 80 grain projectiles. We trained DM’s at Ft Benning and the “fight stopper” was the MK262 Mod 1 ammo….a 77BTHP from a 20″ barrel at 2750fps. Reports from the field indicated that 1 shot, upper-torso hits out to 600M could put the bad guys out of the fight mucho pronto. For hunting, several flavors of bonded-core loadings are available (Like Federal Fusion) that will harvest deer with good shot placement. For defense, the Federal GM 77BTHP tests very well in ordinance gelatin. For blasting fodder, there are mass tonnage of M855 and M193 equivalent loadings at deep discounted prices now. The latter will shoot inside 3MOA with most rack rifles.

Other calibers that are practical for defense/hunting would be the 6.8SPC and the new 350 Legend. These provide in excess of 1000ft/lbs energy delivered at any distance you can pick clean shots inside of a mature hardwoods using a SIXTEEN INCH BARREL. Bullets are available that will penetrate and properly expand at their intended velocities. The 450 Bushmaster and 458SOCOM are other good “elk stompers” for up in the black timber. On deer, hogs or bear, they are pure poison. They do require a modified upper to properly eject the BIG brass. If you notice that I did not mention the 6.5 Grendel or other sub-30cal cartridges. The reason is that they require a 20-24 inch barrel to perform at factory rated velocities suitable for animals like deer. Trust me on this, a 24″ barrel is no fun to lug around on an AR in the woods.

That should give you more to think on.

Nothing fancy by any stretch. 6.8SPC II in M4 profile (Bear Creek Arsenal), Stag brake, Anderson Mfg upper/lower, lightweight boron nitride BCG, RRA 2-stage NM trigger, Magpul grip and rear stock, carbon fiber handguard, Aero scope mount. Whole package weighs 7.0# without optics. Never totaled it up, but I am certain it was <$800.

Rifle will hold inside 2MOA at 200yds using Hornady 120SST. Verifed trajectory is +2″ at 100yds and -2″ at 200yds. Delivers >1100ft/lbs at 200 yds. That is farther than I can possible weasel a shot though a mature hardwoods.

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FN SCAR16 gets my nod…

Check out the Savage lineup as well. They offer the .223 Wylde chambering and look and sound pretty appealing for a factory AR. And Savage has a solid reputation for accuracy out of the box. I’m no expert, but have been told the 16” barrel is all the average shooter needs.

Have a Rock River LAR X1 Tan, .223 Wylde, and it’s a fantastic AR. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive, but it will hang in there with the best of them. Great stock, fantastic fluted 18″ barrel, extreemely accurate, especially with the right reloads (3 loads so far in the .4″ range), and just quality that can’t be beat. I did take the flash suppressor off though, as I didn’t like the extra weight, length, and especially noise. It served absolutly no purpose on a coyote hunting rifle. I would think you could pick a new one up now for between $1300 and $1400, if you shop around. Many great options out there, I also have built a custom for my son, with the best of the best parts, about twice the cost of the R River, but no better shooter.

Am still awaiting a barrel to become available from BCA for a friend that wants me to tinker-toy an AR for him in 350 Legend caliber. For 75 bucks, if that tomato stake will hold near 2MOA @ 100yds using the heavier factory fodder, it will kill every deer he points it at. When BCA announced the caliber availability, they sold out immediately. Other barrels are available, but he wants the cheap one…sigh.

Finally was able to wring out that 6.8SPC with 3 brands of factory fodder. The results were less than stellar. The best patterns were 3.0 and 4.0 MOA at 100yds for 3 shots. One brand was 8-10 MOA. Could have thrown a better pattern. Have mounted a different scope of known quantity now because the one I used for this test was a virgin. Hoping it is the scope, but I am pretty well convinced it is the barrel. Might take the manufacturer up on their 1MOA accuracy guarantee come next week. Have assembled a pile of these in 6.8SPC using these barrels and they all shot pretty well…figures I would get the dud.

Received the 350 Legend barrel, but still require a few components before it will go to the range.

2nd test of that 6.8SPC was a bust. The manufacturer of the barrel wants proof of purchase (I bought it 3 years ago) and I can’t prove it…soooo, I am going to have my gunsmith cut a 45 degree chamfer on the 11 degree crown. Their 11 degree cut “may” have flowed some material in front of one land & groove from what I can see with a loupe. If that doesn’t straighten things out, the barrel gets scrapped and I will hunt down a higher quality tube.