Myth or Fact

  • LenH
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 2385
    #1629954

    It depends on what type of angler you are around if you ask the question.

    Many immediately say let all the big small stream browns go because their blood lines are superior and you are removing a primary breeder from the equation. I have heard this over and over through the years.

    http://lenharris.blogspot.com/2016/07/myth-or-fact.html

    carroll58
    Twin Cities, USA
    Posts: 2094
    #1629957

    I would assume that fish like any animal loses it after a certain age. I’ve seen the studies where for Walleyes the primary breeding size is 17″ or 18″ to 23″ or 24″, above that they are not in the prime breeding but then classified as trophy fish.

    Would the same not be true of Trout too?

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11594
    #1629966

    I let the big fish go because I want others to at least have the chance to experience catching them. My thinking is that there are so many fish that I CAN catch and eat, why would I want to kill the top 5% of the size class that took years to reach that stage just so I can have one trout dinner?

    Genetics, environment, opportunity, and luck are all factors in producing big trout. Studies can only replicate that which is not random, so no study can answer to absolute satisfaction the question posed.

    When it comes to fishing, I like to set aside the me, me, me attitude that’s so common today and look at what’s good for the future of the sport instead of just what’s good for my freezer.

    Grouse

    Buffalo Fishhead
    Posts: 302
    #1630082

    When it comes to brown trout releasing the big fish so someone else can catch it may be wishful thinking; it all depends on the amount of fishing pressure the small stream gets. It takes a serious amount of fishing pressure to re-catch a brown trout. So, depending on the fishing pressure the small stream gets, releasing a brown trout so another angler can catch probably will not happen.

    Several years ago there was a great article in Trout magazine dealing with catch and release regulations (C&R) on different trout species. The article concluded that successful C&R regulations depended on the amount of fishing pressure a trout population gets and the species of trout in that population. For cutthroat and rainbow populations much less fishing pressure was needed to re-catch a fish. For brown trout, because they are about 20 times harder to catch than a cutthroat, it took a great amount of fishing pressure to re-catch a fish. The author of the article looked at creel surveys across the nation and concluded that there were few, if any, brown trout populations that received enough fishing pressure to re-catch a brown trout. So, a C&R regulation on a brown trout population would have little, or no, biological effect on a population.

    Buffalo Fishhead

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1630097

    So, depending on the fishing pressure the small stream gets, releasing a brown trout so another angler can catch probably will not happen.

    Small chance to no chance makes a pretty big difference >to me.

    “biological effect” and “personal satisfaction” knowing that another angler may have a (agreed small) chance of re catching are two different things but both are important to some, but not all anglers.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1630100

    Dang, I seem to be argumentative this morning! coffee

    “I’ve seen the studies where for Walleyes the primary breeding size is 17″ or 18″ to 23″ or 24″, above that they are not in the prime breeding”

    Each fishery is unique as each city across our country. Rivers and lakes are totally two different animals.

    Ok… I’m done for today. peace

    LenH
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 2385
    #1630116

    I have fished for trout in southern germany and their regulations require you to keep any trout you land no matter the size. you have a total length maximum for the day and when you hit it you must leave. No sport fishing.

    This is the opposite of the trends around here where you hear the trout is too valuable of a resource to catch only once.

    The regulations are made by the DNR here and if they thought it was detrimental to the resource to catch and keep any sized trout they would forbid it.

    I follow the regulations to the letter. Folks that try to push their self made rules on me can learn german and be forced to keep everything.

    i planned for 6 months for the trip and had my german limit in less then 20 casts and had to leave. Three 15 inchers.

    http://lenharris.blogspot.com/2013/07/trout-fishing-in-germany.html

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #1630126

    Clarification: I have no problem what others do as long as it’s within the law. (which should be biologically sound).

    Just because I would release a large trout or any fish for that matter doesn’t imply that’s what I want others to do. It just gives me a good feeling knowing someone else has a chance of having the same fun I did. peace

    Timmy
    Posts: 1235
    #1630127

    I didn’t see anyone pushing their own rules on anyone.

    Personally, I have released some large trout in streams. I don’t find them to be great on the table. I get enough lakers from up north in a season to satisfy my trout appetite.

    Interesting info about Germany! It sounds like an average citizen simply can not realistically become an angler. Definitely not my cup of tea. We sure are lucky over here in that regard.

    T

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2578
    #1630128

    I would assume that fish like any animal loses it after a certain age. I’ve seen the studies where for Walleyes the primary breeding size is 17″ or 18″ to 23″ or 24″, above that they are not in the prime breeding but then classified as trophy fish.

    I’ve heard others say this but have never seen such a study myself. Could someone please provide a link or reference?

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2578
    #1630135

    The regulations are made by the DNR here and if they thought it was detrimental to the resource to catch and keep any sized trout they would forbid it.

    I strongly disagree with this. Setting limits is a far too complicated process for the DNR to get it right every time. “Detrimental to the fishery” is a subjective standard — reasonable people can disagree on what a fishery should be or could be. And finally, there are politics involved in the DNR’s process. e.g. Mille Lacs.

    LenH
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 2385
    #1630197

    it was almost like joe dirt was reading my mind.

    My email box had another monster in it from this morning.

    For the record I have not kept a big trout in nearly 15 years but reserve the right to do so.

    If the trout wasn’t so clearly dead i would post here.

    If you want to see it….go to my newest blog post.

    Timmy
    Posts: 1235
    #1630200

    How big was that one, Len? Big fish!

    What does he do with all of those big ones he gets? Meals?

    Not pointing fingers or ridiculing, just curious. Like you, Its none of my business what others do within the law, and as long as they let me play by my lawful rules, they can play by theirs. waytogo

    LenH
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 2385
    #1630202

    How big was that one, Len? Big fish!

    What does he do with all of those big ones he gets? Meals?

    Not pointing fingers or ridiculing, just curious. Like you, Its none of my business what others do within the law, and as long as they let me play by my lawful rules, they can play by theirs. waytogo

    29.5

    he took to taxidermists and waited for meat and will grill tomorrow.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11594
    #1630203

    I have fished for trout in southern germany and their regulations require you to keep any trout you land no matter the size. you have a total length maximum for the day and when you hit it you must leave. No sport fishing.

    This is the opposite of the trends around here where you hear the trout is too valuable of a resource to catch only once.

    Len, the German regulations were NOT put in place for the reasons you’re implying.

    These “keep what you catch” regulations in Germany were driven by a strong animal rights political agenda that forced through the idea the C&R fishing is “cruel” and therefore the German equivalent of PETA drove these regulations into being starting in the 1990s.

    It is not the “opposite of trends here” as you are presenting it. It is NOT some kind of opposing theory of fisheries management, it’s being done because PETA-types convinced the German government that the only fishing that is “not cruel” is fishing where the animal is caught and killed immediately.

    The effect these policies would have on fisheries wasn’t much of a consideration and obviously German anglers very rightly suspect that the end goal of these rules is really to crash the fish populations in Germany. At which time, of course, the German PETA types could then argue that a total ban on fishing was in order because anglers are killing all the fish. A backdoor way to enact a ban on angling.

    Grouse

    LenH
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 2385
    #1630207

    i don’t imply

    keeping everything and blindly letting everything go is WRONG

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2578
    #1630220

    Keeping everything may be against the law.

    Letting everything go is sometimes required by the law.

    There’s the law, but I’d rather talk about right and wrong. What do you mean by blindly letting everything go, Len?

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11594
    #1630221

    You certainly are implying that in comparing two bodies of regulation, that the basis or drivers of the trends is the same–managing fisheries.

    The fact is that in Germany, their regulation and therefore their trends in fishing are being steered by a force that (fortunately) is not (yet?) a big force here–the political will of “animal rights” organizations. Bottom line is German fishing regulations are being driven by those who want to outlaw fishing for political reasons and not by any science or sense of what’s best for the fish.

    Anybody can agree or disagree with the regulations here, but at least they are being formed by those with motivations of the good of the species and ecosystem, and NOT by those whose motivations are only centered around the elimination of sport angling.

    Grouse

    LenH
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 2385
    #1630287

    a little more saturday morning confessions.

    I have kept three trout this year and one last year and five the year before.

    They were clearly injured and would not survive.

    Many of the anglers i fish with are strict catch and release anglers

    but they will keep a mortally injured trout or i would not fish with them.

    Timmy
    Posts: 1235
    #1630289

    It isn’t a confession if you didn’t do anything wrong! waytogo

    Fishing is a bloodsport, and in bloodsports, sometimes the prey dies. It is inevitable. To utilize such a fish is the right thing to do. Too bad the laws can’t allow for this without opening a whole ‘nuther can ‘o worms.

    john23
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 2578
    #1630332

    I’m understanding that “blindly letting everything go” really boils down to relasing fish that won’t survive. For what it’s worth to you, we agree. waytogo

    lundojam
    Posts: 255
    #1630335

    I’m with Len on the subject of “home-made” rules. It drives me nuts when folks give you the “you didn’t keep that, did you?” stink-eye, as if they are the lone keepers of the conservation flame. If I had a nickel for every fish I’ve let go that I could’ve kept…Sometimes I keep and eat (or mount) legal fish, and I always will.

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