Um none. Had an email sent from HR and a manger about having a zoom call in an hour. My own boss found out an hour before. Called me in tears. All 4 people I hired during that time stayed.
Basically just slashed several layers of folks without talking to others about who to keep and who to let go.
Can’t look back just have to move forward.
That is really terrible Rip! It happens far too often these days the way they handle it and its so cowardly. Good luck to you!
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sorry to hear that Rip. On to bigger and better things
We just happen to have record profits during Covid and now a return to normalcy but growth expectations were being set off record numbers is all I was trying to say.
You’re spot on here. That’s the problem with capitalism is the desire/need for constant growth. Investors (doesn’t matter what kind – private/public/institutional) want positive returns every year and on top of that, they want perpetual growth. For those of us that work in businesses and are close to the numbers, that just isn’t feasible every year perpetually. Thats why you constantly hear about layoffs whenever an industry goes thru a rough patch. The easiest way for corporations to achieve projected profitability when its not happening with revenue growth is cutting costs, and the easiest/quickest cost cutting is thru payroll reductions
Great Counterpoint however people don’t want to see or admit the record unemployment rates. If Trump was in office last 4 years you would hear how great the unemployment rate is and people wouldn’t counterpoint.
As far as 401k’s go? I looked and mine is BOOMING. What I think is funny is when Trump was in office all you heard was “have you looked at your 401k lately” now…. people don’t want to talk about how good it has been. To prove that, just read the comments after this post.
I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing this. 2021 and 2023 S&P 500 returns were 2 of the top 5 years in the last 25 years for S&P returns and 2024 is tracking to also be in that top 5. My 401k has been absolutely killing it the last few years. If you average the S&P 500 returns over POTUS45 and 46’s terms, they’re darn near identical. The silence is deafening
This is what has me puzzled about the power sports industry. No, the industry should not be at covid levels of sales, but sales should NOT be as bad as they are. Also other forms of recreational spending are not following the power sports trend. Spending on vacations and leisure travel, for example, is still at record levels.
I don’t think the answer is just about COVID stimulus money. Many buyers who can afford power sports products had an income that placed them above the threshold to receive much of the COVID money that was being handed out. Even if they got money, it was hardly the kind of money that pays for a new UTV. So despite all the politics, it is just not credible to say a large majority of the sales of power sports equipment were being paid for entirely by covid money from the government. Buyers were still spending real money of their own back then, so why aren’t they spending now?
Is it just interest rates rising? Even though they remain at historically low levels? 60-month loans for power sports products are averaging 7.5% which is NOT high by long-term standards and the industry has seen booming sales and financing levels with interest rates much higher than this. Even at 9.9% levels the industry has had boom years for sales and financing profits, so it’s not just the interest rates.
Is it possible that people have just stopped the use of credit to buy toys? That seems like a pretty radical change to be even possible. Going back just a few years it seems like everybody and their dog was financing every recreational purchase under the YOLO life mantra. So that suddenly came to an end and now people are unwilling to finance?
I wonder if younger people are just not replacing the older buyers? Are the 25-35 year olds just not buying power sports and marine products anymore? It seems like this was the prime demographic before, so did this group just up and quit? Or is it older buyers who are just not upgrading like they used to?
Lots of other factors, for example, the lack of snow get thrown out. The problem is these factors may explain why the snowmobile segment is at a low level of sales, but it doesn’t explain why boats and summer products have followed suit.
It’s just very strange to me that an industry that has prospered under very similar good economic conditions in the past is now struggling this badly.
I wonder if younger people are just not replacing the older buyers? Are the 25-35 year olds just not buying power sports and marine products anymore? It seems like this was the prime demographic before, so did this group just up and quit? Or is it older buyers who are just not upgrading like they used to?
I think this has to figure in but is probably just one piece of the puzzle. Consider how housing figures in to this. Harder and harder to purchase that first home. If you’re busy saving money for a down payment on a home you’re probably not buying or financing a sled or a boat? And if you don’t own property to store these toys you’re less likely to purchase them as well?
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>riverbassman wrote:</div>
Great Counterpoint however people don’t want to see or admit the record unemployment rates. If Trump was in office last 4 years you would hear how great the unemployment rate is and people wouldn’t counterpoint.
As far as 401k’s go? I looked and mine is BOOMING. What I think is funny is when Trump was in office all you heard was “have you looked at your 401k lately” now…. people don’t want to talk about how good it has been. To prove that, just read the comments after this post.
I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing this. 2021 and 2023 S&P 500 returns were 2 of the top 5 years in the last 25 years for S&P returns and 2024 is tracking to also be in that top 5. My 401k has been absolutely killing it the last few years. If you average the S&P 500 returns over POTUS45 and 46’s terms, they’re darn near identical. The silence is deafening
[/quote
There silence is because deafening due to the fact they need to work double the hours to buy groceries I’d assume.
My pension is still booming and has through all of it. ( thank you union).
I think this has to figure in but is probably just one piece of the puzzle. Consider how housing figures in to this. Harder and harder to purchase that first home. If you’re busy saving money for a down payment on a home you’re probably not buying or financing a sled or a boat? And if you don’t own property to store these toys you’re less likely to purchase them as well?
[/quote]
I agree with this. I know housing is sky rocketed, which makes toys not a importance. When toy prices went way up I decided after I wrecked my last wheeler buying used toys for cash was a way smarter deal which has proved it self time and time again.
And what they want for a boat these days is half absurd so like alot of others we have stayed happy with what we have. To be 60 plus in to a new tin boat is not for me. And I also think many people had to keep up with the jones are in fact not able to do so financially. When the average grocery store trip is 500 bucks for a small family that quickly cuts out the ability to buy toys. Price of living is real high these days
Great Counterpoint however people don’t want to see or admit the record unemployment rates. If Trump was in office last 4 years you would hear how great the unemployment rate is and people wouldn’t counterpoint.
As far as 401k’s go? I looked and mine is BOOMING. What I think is funny is when Trump was in office all you heard was “have you looked at your 401k lately” now…. people don’t want to talk about how good it has been. To prove that, just read the comments after this post.I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing this. 2021 and 2023 S&P 500 returns were 2 of the top 5 years in the last 25 years for S&P returns and 2024 is tracking to also be in that top 5. My 401k has been absolutely killing it the last few years. If you average the S&P 500 returns over POTUS45 and 46’s terms, they’re darn near identical. The silence is deafening
There silence is because deafening due to the fact they need to work double the hours to buy groceries I’d assume.
My pension is still booming and has through all of it. ( thank you union).
X2. Had to look it up, but the purchasing power of the dollar has been in decline for a while but I wanted to compare 45 to 46. During 45’s term it declined 7.3% and during 46’s 17%. Yes 401k’s have been doing great lately but that’s only part of the story. A person can cherry pick numbers all day long to show one POTUS or the other in a better light. (which I guess I just did) But, you’d have to admit in general people are not better off financially today than they were 4 years ago (except COVID of course).
Sorry BC, didn’t mean to attribute that whole quote to just you. Site wouldn’t let me do multiple quotes.
And the stock market booming is at least partially caused by the same thing inflation is, the money printer going into overdrive during the last 2 presidential terms. And unemployment #’s don’t look nearly as good if you look at the actual numbers in the Labor Participation rate.
As far as powersports sales falling off a cliff I put that mainly on demand being over met during Covid, and now no one is upgrading or churning their stuff since they have a great rate on it, and the demand isn’t there to sell for a profit.
Anecdotal story to this and a few other recent threads, but I just had a business lunch at a very popular MSP/StP restaurant (they have locations in both). And they had 1 server/host/busser 1 manager/food runner/busser and 2 cooks in a busy and manageably full restaurant. Food was good, service couldn’t be anything but slow given those facts, and a number of groups came in and walked out when they couldn’t get sat at one of the empty tables due to a lack of staff.
I think it’s a perfectly bad storm of factors:
Housing is eating up a larger piece of the average middle-class American’s monthly budget than any time in recent memory. There’s a pretty substantial housing shortage in this country that may take a decade + to address. Rent, Prices, etc. aren’t going down any time soon.
Interest rates aren’t what they were during the Covid boom years. It is much easier to absorb the spending on toys when interest rates are lower. There’s always the urge to upgrade, but that’s where the price hikes are a punch. For those borrowing, imagine trading in a 4 year old side by side, getting 15k from a dealer….then staring at another $15k price jump to get into something newer and slightly better, at double the interest rate of your previous loan you just paid off. I know some people who are phenomenal in sales, but that’s a tough sell.
So many people bought recreational toys during the Covid craziness (which wasn’t that long ago) that the audience looking for a new boat/jet ski/snowmobile/wheeler/utv likely has a slightly used one already sitting in their garage that may or may not get used as much as they wish.
I think this has to figure in but is probably just one piece of the puzzle. Consider how housing figures in to this. Harder and harder to purchase that first home. If you’re busy saving money for a down payment on a home you’re probably not buying or financing a sled or a boat? And if you don’t own property to store these toys you’re less likely to purchase them as well?
My kids at least in the foreseeable future will not be able to afford a home at this rate. The prices are too high, the interest rates are too high and they both make more money then I did when I bought my first home. It seems rates are coming back to Earth and are still pretty good when you think about it historically but they arent anywhere near what I have currently and that money adds up quick.
There silence is because deafening due to the fact they need to work double the hours to buy groceries I’d assume.
My pension is still booming and has through all of it. ( thank you union).
That’s what happens when you start throwing tariffs on everything when there aren’t domestic alternatives available… news flash – everything gets more expensive.
It is so wild to me how many people have no idea how tariffs works. People think China (or Mexico, Canada, etc) pays the tariffs. They do not. I repeat, China does not pay the tariff. Ultimately the US consumers (i.e. me and you) pay the tariffs. It’s crazy to me how many people are excited for self imposed inflation.
As of March 2024, the trade war tariffs have generated more than $233 billion of higher taxes collected from US consumers. That’s right, we self imposed $233 BILLION of higher taxes on ourselves yet we somehow think that is winning…
What’s wild to me is people are complaining about inflation out of one side of their mouth while promoting tariffs out of the other side of their mouth.
The only thing worse than being blind is having sight but not seeing
Highly recommended non-biased (right leaning if anything) article explaining the economic impacts of the trade war tariffs:
Tariffs can be used in many ways. One way, that they work long term, is to bring jobs back, that went out of the country, because slave labor & unregulated manufacturing ways are cheaper. The tariff can take a USA made product that is $7.50 and make it competitive against the $5 product, made by children or slaves in terrible conditions and a 50% tariff now makes the foreign product $7.50. The more people who switch to the USA made product, will help drive the cost of it down even further. It’s all about perspective and long term goals, not immediate results.
(I read Arctic Cat in Thief River laying off 70 people on Monday… Merry Christmas)
So we’ve got purchasing power of the dollar down 17%, rising interest rates, saturation of the market due to a boom in sales during the Wuhan lab leak, and housing/rent prices have skyrocketed and aren’t slowing down.
Stock market has been very healthy, everyone’s 401k is growing good. Unemployment is low. Also social questions regarding interests of younger generations.
Tariffs can be used in many ways.
I agree, they can also be used as a bit of a “threat” or a negotiating tool with other trade partners too. More of a game of chicken if you will, without actually following through with it.
I stated this in another thread, but the majority of our crude oil in the Midwest comes from Canada. What you pay for gasoline at the pump will go up about 75 cents/gal if there is a 25% tariff imposed on Canadian crude oil.
Sounds like it might be a lack of storage issue for some.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Tariffs can be used in many ways.I agree, they can also be used as a bit of a “threat” or a negotiating tool with other trade partners too. More of a game of chicken if you will, without actually following through with it.
I stated this in another thread, but the majority of our crude oil in the Midwest comes from Canada. What you pay for gasoline at the pump will go up about 75 cents/gal if there is a 25% tariff imposed on Canadian crude oil.
Drill baby drill… when we become closer to energy independent again… gas will go down as an offset.
Good point big G. I don’t see energy going up with trump in command.
Drill baby drill… when we become closer to energy independent again… gas will go down as an offset.
Huh? What do you mean again, when are you talking about?
Good point big G. I don’t see energy going up with trump in command.
It will go up initially if there is a tariff imposed. That’s unavoidable. In the long term it may come back down though. You don’t just set up more oil wells and refineries overnight.
Simple supply and demand. Same demand, less supply. Then more supply later on.
The tariff can take a USA made product that is $7.50 and make it competitive against the $5 product, made by children or slaves in terrible conditions and a 50% tariff now makes the foreign product $7.50. The more people who switch to the USA made product, will help drive the cost of it down even further. It’s all about perspective and long term goals, not immediate results.
I totally agree on this logic. However, there are not domestic options for many products and domestic manufacturing certainly won’t pop up over night. We’re almost 8 years since the first trade war tariffs were put in place and we still don’t have domestic manufacturing for many key inflationary products. How many phones are made in the US? How many computers? Out of season fruits and vegetables? clothes? The list goes on and on.
Simply put, voluntarily taxing ourselves $233 Billion isn’t working out great, yet the president elect wants to self impose even more taxes on US citizens. As stated above, we get a massive amount of oil from Canada. Just wait until that 25% tariff is put into place.
It will go up initially if there is a tariff imposed. That’s unavoidable. In the long term it may come back down though. You don’t just set up more oil wells and refineries overnight.
key word = may
Textron announced today that there will be a “production pause” for off road vehicles. This doesn’t sound good.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/textron-weighs-options-off-road-153344558.html
I have read that Polaris has a scheduled shutdown already in effect for their engine plant, but it will be interesting to see what happens when production starts again.
These are big Minnesota employers and a great part of our outdoors history here, so I hope recovery is going to come soon.
Found out that Duluth Harley is closing there doors after 73 years. Seems to be a bad trend starting.
Found out that Duluth Harley is closing there doors after 73 years. Seems to be a bad trend starting.
ouch!!
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