The Last Hurrah

I took the day off of work on Tuesday and made it my last official outing of the year. I drove to Houston Co. and met up with a friend from Wisconsin who had permission to fish some posted property in the area. This portion is away from the heavy angling pressure, so the fish weren’t overly conditioned to people and their tactics.

The water was cold and clear in the AM, so a logical place to start was by nymphing: scud with a red brassie. We only managed one fish before I decided to wake those guys up by pitching some black buggers. The first cast produced a strike and a fish, so we stuck with that method the rest of the day despite some tricos starting to appear around 11:00 (which is pretty late for tricos). The fish were obviously hungry, probably gearing up for a long winter ahead, not to mention spawning here in a few weeks, so they hammered the woolly bugger. The biggest fish of the day was a stout 16 inches .

I hit another stream in the afternoon hours catching a few browns and a brook trout (always a nice surprise).

It’s been a strange year overall. Low water levels followed by a six week monsoon season in the spring made for interesting conditions. The cooler than normal summer temps. were nice to fish in, but it made hatches a bit unpredictable at times. It was a fun year with lots of challenges (that’s why it’s fun).

Best of luck if you do manage to get out today. Otherwise, happy fall and winter. I’m heading to the tree stand on a regular basis and attending to the never ending task of replenishing my depleted fly boxes and dreaming of next year .

Best regards to all,
D.A.

Dave…you gave me the itch to get out again…”Fly Fishing…the most fun you can have standing up!”

Figures it has to be the last day.

I’ve never fished in MN…normally the Kinni, a couple time the Rush and 4 memorable times on the Wolf River. Is 16 inches the norm for that way? My personal best is 14 out of the Kinni, which I remember like it was this morning! Guess it was about 15 years ago now…man time flies.
It was an over cast last day of the season….tossed out a new grasshopper pattern, got a nice drift…which surpised me…but not as much as the nose of this trout following my fly for what seemed like 20 feet. One little twitch and the water exploded…

Wish I would have carried a camera in those days…

Next year I’m going to have to check out the S.E. trout!

I’d say 16 inches is not the norm, say more like 8-10 inchers are common. There are some big fish out there, but significant numbers of fish over 12 inches really don’t exist on a steady and consistent basis. Without being accosted of being anti-harvest, anti-bait, and whatever else, the reality is that most fish don’t grow beyond 12 inches here locally due to harvest. The DNR has extensive electro-shocking data to prove this point. Hopefully, some regs will be implemented to promote growth of some larger fish.

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Without being accosted of being anti-harvest, anti-bait, and whatever else

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Well, I don’t know you to accost you…but I was a “meat hunter” (I hate the sound of that to this day) with a fly rod. Once I really got into fishing and finding out what a delicate fish a trout is (education…) I found out that if eveyone did what I was doing…5 fish twice a day…sometimes three times a day….(yes the limit was 5 then) our browns would be like the brookies.

Love my smoked trout in the 8 to 10 inch range….now I go to Star Prairie and catch enough in a morning to last me MUCH longer than I could…and I don’t have to duck the law and I don’t have the uneasy…guilty feeling.

Not that I don’t believe you, but do you know where a guy could get that data from the dnr…is it posted? I’ve been into catfishing lately and talked to a fella that’s done studies on why cats only get to a certian size in an area…(he called it “the wall”) His thought was the growing season…of course flathead catfish sleep during the winter…where trout are chasing bugs and lava whenever their available.
Anyway, I just wanted to compair the data.

PS I’m trying to figure out how I could hook AND land a 30 lbs flathead on a fly rod…Don’t know if I could cast a 7 inch bullhead on there though

All DNR data is open to the public. In your case, I’d e-mail or phone someone with warmwater expertise and see what they have. They can’t deny you information if you request it.

I’ve got some pretty big streamer patterns in black. Goop it up with stink bait and some lead and get it to the bottom…. .

The accosting comes from prior posts where it was perceived that since I’m pro-catch and release (and very pro larger fish) that if you didn’t use a fly rod and kept trout (of which I do on occassion) that you were less than I and fly rodders are some sort of superior being. Speaking of education……

Thank you for the post! This site has been dead most of the year. I appreciate your input and I have missed Todd Olson’s reports. I used to keep 5 trout or if you want to go way back, 15 trout on a limit. Does this age me or what? I ate my trout and later I smoked them and contributed them for a wild game feed. The last year I did this was in the very late 80’s. I kept the fish in the freezer and then I smoked them after Labor Day. The last day I did this I was looking at the trout on a visqueen(sp) drying out and I thought to myself, “this is madness”! Such beautiful fish going to something like this. I have since contributed my wifes’s pumpkin pie for this event. I have kept 4 fish to eat from Beaver Creek since that time. That was back in ’94. Do I have a problem with people catching and keeping five fish? Not at all. However, I have been fly fishing and releasing all my trout since that time. I really think that fish grow on the conditions of the stream. Sometimes they feed on insects and sometimes they feed on availible food like worms, minows, and maybe even small leeches. Some people, who blow holes with their guns in DNR signs are so stupid that they do not understand that regulations are needed to make our streams the best that they can be! Sorry but there are those idiots! Why? They do not take the time to figure out what is going on.

What you speak of Stale Mackrel is the perception by those who haven’t done their homework enough to understand the numbers game. While southeast Minnesota does boast a healthy trout population in general, electroshcoking data shows that the number of 12 inch fish and larger literally falls off the chart (information available courtesy of Region Five headquarters in Rochester, MN). The reason is simple – they aren’t there because they are being harvested. I enjoy a trout meal like anyone else, but I don’t need that meal to survive. I’d make the same comparison to deer hunting in this area as I can eat without venison in the freezer, but it’s a poor comparison considering the gigantic deer herd in the area. I can legally harvest five deer with a bow this year! Unbelievable.

I’ve got no quarrel with how people angle. It’s what they do with the trout after they catch them that does concern me. I understand why there are 150 cars along the road in the Whitewater Valley on the opener, or campers lining Bucksnort Dam – it’s the opener and people want some fish. Great. I hope they have an enjoyable day, but I also hope people continue to understand the true fragility of the resource and limit their kill instead of killing their limit.

I hope more people are interested in a fun experience that is measured not by how many fish end up in their cooler.

You snuck a post in there before I posted mine…don’t worry, I’ve been told I’m slow before..:)

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Speaking of education……

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Speaking strictly of fish…for the moment,(but this may pertain to many/all things)I think we (including and me…maybe even more so) all need some education. I strongly believe this website has been (at least in my case) an awesome education tool. When you talk to one person you get one side of the issue. Here we get all sides (usually).

I used to think that you could never fish out a lake of sunfish and you know what? You can’t…but you can fish it out of keeper sunnies. Dad and I…(with a fly) would go out and catch 30 fish each, go home and clean them…and go back for 60 more. The only reason we wouldn’t go back again is because we were tired of cleaning. It’s become harder and harder to find the larger sunnies on our home lakes. I don’t have any data saying the fishing pressure did this…but it makes sense. Now, we bring home 18 fish. Twelve fresh fish for me to eat and the rest for Dad.

I would think trout have more fishing pressure in a smaller area…(less area in a stream than a lake)

Speacial regs weren’t around when I was fishing…I think there was a c&r stetch down south when I stopped fishing trout. It would be nice if the DNR could find a “trophy” river/stream…which would have to be C&R I suspect. Maybe they have is already…Educate Me

I think many people would drive hours to fish a trophy stream/river. Again, maybe they do already.

DA…don’t take this the wrong way…because unless you dig into catfishing…you would never know. Besides I may need your thoughts on “flyfishing for Flatheads”.

Most people think cats are bottom feeders eating anything that’s dead and rotting…lower than the little toe of a worm…(not intended to insult worm fisherman ) Differant type of cats eat differant things. I’m talking about Flatheads, which generally eat ANYTHING live. Dip/stinkbaits are for channel cats…normally. It’s kinda like rainbows like faster water than brookies…althought they can be found in the same stream….So…I would need a fly that would swing through 10 to 15 feet of water, staying about a foot off the bottom. Imitating a struggling (at least) 6 inch fish. Here’s the catch so to speak…wood…deadheads branches…snags. Hmmm..maybe I’ll stick to my baitcaster!

StaleMackeral (love that handle! )

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I really think that fish grow on the conditions of the stream

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After thinking about it, we had a little slough/lake by a river back home. The lake froze out EVERY year. But in the spring floods, northerns would get in there and grow to 9 plus pounds by fall…but I guess it’s alittle differant.

No reason a person can’t keep all the fish they can eat…but that is the problem. Far too many people take more fish than they can eat…hence the limits (generally speaking) I relate this to my daughter and her driving. If the speed limit is 70, she goes 75. She hasn’t figured out that this is the LIMIT, she doesn’t have to go that fast.

Sorry for the rambleing! It’s DA’s fault He got me “wishing I was fishen” today!

You’re talking to a guy who grew up in Kellogg, MN and knows what it’s like to be a river rat , despite the fact that I rearely fish the river anymore. I appreciate fishing for cats in August below the wing dam with the Coleman lantern with plenty of lead, some stink bait from Dave’s baitshop (or cut bait from dead minnows), some more lead, a cooler full of brew, lead, and watch and wait. I’m not just a fly angler .

I’m sure you’d get lots of opinions regarding education from swartling, stale mackrel, and myself, but you’ll get a different perspective from others like HYBES or swanny. Who’s to say who’s right? I doubt the latter two would have too many positive things to say about me, but then again, like I care. The whole education post would be interesting to get perspectives and beliefs versus truth.

Without getting too detailed right now (long story short), the DNR is working on making a finite number of streams catch and release only, but like any proposal, there has been a lot of slinging of words from both sides of whether or not catch and release/elimination of bait is a good thing. It comes down to compromise, but there are those who use bait exclusively that feel they are being targeted and the rules are meant for yuppie, SUV driving elitists. At least that’s a bulk of the banter I hear from the persons against the regs proposal.

DA, If you would have used live bait…bullheads, suckers or chubs at that wing dam, you wouldn’t have gotten so drunk! That’s channel cat bait…for the most part…but then, maybe there was a reason you wanted to wait…

That’s what I love about this web site! Many points of view on heated arguments are pointed out ( at times… vented ) and as long as there’s no name calling, cursing ect…all sides can state there point of veiw. If I disagree with you…you don’t have to worry about getting a 5 oz no roll sinker in the back of the head…and I don’t have to worry about a big muddler minnow in the ear.

Although I don’t know the special regs that your refering to…I can understand why someone that doesn’t fly fish would feel targeted especially if it was a stream I normally fished or is in my backyard so to speak. Kinda like…if you drive a Ford, you can’t fish here. (hope my dad’s reading this…he’s a ford man )

I was just thinking, if it was the other way around…live bait only…would I be perterbed? More than likely not, since there would be data that said trout don’t swollow live bait as far as flies. That’s what it’s all about isn’t it? What’s best for the fishery?

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would have too many positive things to say about me

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This quote makes a point…it has nothing to do with the issues. You typing it, or if “they” have positive things to say or not, it’s pointless as to the issues. Personally, I can’t tell if your a bad person or not over the net…all I can tell is if I agree with your perspective or not…and the same with the other folks you mentioned.
Seeing that you guide, I would assume you are a BIG c&r fan…If you’re not you should be…Championing the C&R way of thinking. On the other hand, as with most guides I know, they explain the reasons for C&R then don’t hold it against anyone for keeping their legal limit. Thinking about it, the best guides that I know (that have put me on the most walleyes) have a slot limit of their own. They tell the customer up front, anything over 18 inches goes back unless it’s bleeding and going to die anyway.
(side note: I’m not telling you how to run your guide service at all here please don’t get that impression)

As far as the yuppie-suv thing. Well, not much I can say about that. There are fly fisherman that stick their noses up in the air at bait and there are bait fisherman that think all fly fishers are stuck up… That’s just people..puuurrttty hard to change that…although they all really know better…

Well time to go drowned a sucker!

Since I’ve been catfishing EVERYONE looks down on me…including my DAD!

You’re actually backwards about the bait versus flies statement. There have been many studies done about the mortality of trout and means in which they are caught. While no one method is fail safe in terms of ensuring that a trout that is caught and released will live 100% of the time, without question, bait has the highest mortality rate bar none. People always don’t necessarily see what’s best as they think they always know best based upon their experiences, and the underlying theme with many agnlers/hunters is that they don’t like to be told what to do or how they can do it, especially if there’s buearacratic red tape attached to it, which in the case of the proposed trout regs is coming straight from the DNR.

As a fly fishing guide, my clients are not allowed to harvest fish. They hire me to learn more about the sport or often times travel to this area wan want to partake in fly fishing and hire a guide due to limited time. They aren’t interested in keeping trout, but on the other hand, I don’t care how people and angle and how many they keep as long as they follow the rules, and limit their kill. We don’t live in an era where we need to have a freezer full of trout for sustenance reasons. I’d rather have the opportunity to catch larger fish consistently than to consistently catch smaller fish.

D.A. I can’t aruge the point that There is a higher mortality rate with “bait” vs. “artifical”…because I have to agree with you on that one.But I Am here to tell you NOT on my hooks…And Its the way you go about presenting the bait..and Thats were the problem on “mortality” comes in to play..If I find a nice hole to fish,sit down and bait up,throw it out and “prop” up my pole..I’m bound to hook a fish deep. but if I bait up “and hold my pole” and fish the rapids,deep holes or other fast water and strike on the first “Nibble” I hook the fish in the mouth…or miss the “bite” completly.Now it becomes a matter of “education” in bait fishing.

How about this one I use a old fly rod my brother gave me,and tape a ultra-lite spinning reel to it. I use a 1/64th ounce ant pattern or just a 1/64th ounce jig with some hair on it..AND tip it with a waxey…best of both Worlds..But what am I, fly fishing or bait fishing?
I do see your point on being able to catch Larger fish and using regs to help out with that,and YES they are proposed in “my” back yard and I do not like it.What I am saying is with the right Education/or Experence I can be just as effective with mortaliy rates as a flyfisherman can..I started out flyfishing, but because of past injuries cannot get my elbows to preform the necasary motions any more, and bait fish/spin so I can still fish.THATS why I fight for the bait fisherman.Also you cannot “stock” a freezer with trout. The limit is 5. Trout are best eaten “FRESH”.they do not freeze well as the flesh is very delicate.A family of 4 will consume 1.5 fish per meal.(you need more than one license per family for that)For smart “Heart” health the USDA (accually there is a branch for fish and seafood) suggest 2 meals of fish per week.And belive it or not Some of us DO NOT have the money to buy it at the store..(at there prices who does)not to mentioned the fact that supermarket fish is mostly farm raised and does not contain the same nutrients that a wild fish does.(YES even those Cement run rainbow’s offer a better nutrional meal than the farm raised supermarket fish)

Don’t get me wrong here I”m not picking at you..just a voice for the “other” side

Hey DA…

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I was just thinking, if it was the other way around …live bait only…would I be perterbed? More than likely not, since there would be data that said trout don’t swollow live bait as far as flies. That’s what it’s all about isn’t it? What’s best for the fishery?

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I should have made that clearer.

Swanny, you do have a great point, however (jez I hate using a broad paint brush! ) “most” folks that fish bait ….nope I’m not going to go there….

Here’s the deal…When I’m fly fishing and if I would leave some slack in the line and not set the hook where does the fly hook the fish? If not in the gullet, at least farther down than the prized lip hooked fish that WILL survive if not played to death..with either style of fishing.
I watch a fella on the kinni one day. He had a fly rod with a hook and a small split shot on the end …somewhere around a size 16 hook…and using red worms. Just letting it drift. He was having a great time as was I watching him. Because he had the line tight (as you do Swanny) he lip hooked them just as much as anyone using a fly.

No, I’m going to say it, not many folks are like you Swanny…because if that was the cast…we wouldn’t need special regs…just a catch and release program to get the bigger fish.

I think if I wanted to eat two meals of fish each week, I would go after a fish that I could keep more off…I mean if I couldn’t afford it…(side note: have you ever bought frozen trout from a grocery store? (Insert puke Graemlin here!) That’s the fish that sits on ice in the air for 7 days, then they freezed it…Gastly stuff…it shouldn’t be legle to call that trout!)

One question…Isn’t there enough streams down there to have regs for larger fish on a few streams and regular rules on the other streams for people that would rather use live bait?

Thanks for that point Swanny, I completly for got that some people CAN’t fly fish even if they wanted to.

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One question…Isn’t there enough streams down there to have regs for larger fish on a few streams and regular rules on the other streams for people that would rather use live bait?

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YES THERE IS!!!!!

Yes its true a high percentage of bait fisherman do not know how to really fish for trout..Yes there are enough streams to implement the proposed regs, its just that they are my favorites to fish.and YES store brought fish taste like … well you get the gist of it….I do eat 2/3 meals of fish per week…walleye, sunnys, crappies..but trout is a very short season..so I can only eat them april through sept…then they are safe for awhile…Hey D.A. What is the info one the north branch From the bridge in elba on up to Cnty 10?…there have been regs there for the past few years that encourage the release of most trout in hopes of creating a fisherie for lager trout?

I’m not sure what the electroshocking data shows, but I can give you an angler’s perspecitve as I do fish that area from time to time. I think overall fish populations of brown trout have gone down in the past few years, but there is a good population of healthy nice fish in that 12 inch range into 14 inches. I’ve never caught a fish larger than 17 inches on the NBWW, mainly because I think it’s an area that gets lots of pressure from bait, spinner, and fly anglers alike. I’d say the regs have worked better on Trout Run – lots of fish in that thing and lots of very healthy fish as well, but then again, they are two very different watersheds. I think the natural reproduction on TR is very good compared to the NBWW that is pretty average.

The streams that were chosen for LTM and regs changes were the ones that had high natural reproduction rates (to eliminate stocking), decent habitat, and were those that could have future improvements made if need be. It was a pretty well thought out list. I’m sure the DNR knoew going inthat there would be backlash, so propose many streams and hope you get a few. I guess we’ll know anytime in early November.

There are lots of guys who don’t know how to catch trout with a fly rod either… . Just because you wield one oesn’t mean you really know how to use it effectively.

Swanny’s right about store bought fish – ish. I walked by the fresh trout case in Hy Vee today…no thanks. I’ve got no problem with some trout form the local stream. In fact, I enjoy eating them. I just don’t happen to enjoy eating them on a weekly basis during the season. I’d rather come back and catch ’em over and over again, especially the nicer fish.

the family farm is on the down stream side of county 10..I’ve fished it since the early 80’s.back then we caught a few trout here and there,mostly brown’s,but most of the catch was shiners and really big carp, witch we keep for trapping season…but in the last 5/6 years I have seen a tremondus influx of trout….again mostly browns with a mix of rainbow’s…but the 2 seem to really preferentiate,differerent waters..so I have my rainbow “hole’s” and also know where the brown’s are. I had figuried that the regs put on that part of the north branch were responsible…but maybe its just the fishing pressure down below kicking up more fish..Also the size of the fish are bigger than befor…16 inch fish are not uncommon…and the occasional 20 incher has been on and lost/caught.We also catch a number of smaller browns..6/8 inch witch seems to lead one to think that the reproduction rate is respectible on that streach of stream…I don’t think I’ve ever eaten a trout over 14 inches…mainly because They are hard to come by…and really need to go back in the stream and also because a limint of 10/12 inch fit in the pan better…and Yea..I work at that Hy-Vee….those fish have never even seen “wild water”…When I’m board I go over with a old mop handle and some thread…tie on a small gold safty pin and put on a show for the crowd….

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old mop handle and some thread…tie on a small gold safty pin and put on a show for the crowd

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16 inch fish are not uncommon…and the occasional 20 incher has been on and lost/caught

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20 inches in MN???? Where did you say this was ….buddy…friend!

I’d like to run into one of them with my 4 weight…with a little fly on or a dang catapiller!

It is very comical when walking through a fish section of a grocery store…Walk by the “fresh” fish in a moderate to swift pace…one eye glancing at the trout and there it is! A sunken eye ball and someones finger prints enbedded in the skin…Mumble my gosh…how can anyone buy that cat food/? Keep walking as that no one sees you looking at it

If I recall correctly…rainbows like a slightly swifter water compared to browns….That’s a question.

It’s truely amazing what’s happened over the last 25 years…or less. I’m sure many of you were brought up the same way as I….keep everything you caught….unless it was so small that when your friends saw it, it would be embarressing!

Maybe I should say…I’ve come a long way in the last 25 years! I realized that I don’t have to kill a fish to impress my friends…heck, I don’t have to impress my friends!

PS Swany…

The only way I like to eat any freshwater fish is fried. Either with a type of beer batter or (my favorite) flour, salt, pepper and a little corn meal.

Trout…smoked…although I like it fried, smoked is the best…imo.

My wife hates it when I fry fish in the house. Not the smell, which I think is better than those Fee Fee airfresheners she buys, but cleaning up the spatter…as any husband knows…you can never clean up grease spatter good enough for your wife.

Otherwise I would be eating more fish too…but I’m betting when they say X number of fish meals per week….they aren’t talking about fried !

I have on occasion covered them with Itailian dressing and mic’ed them for a couple of minutes. Quick, easy and no mess. It’s ok that way…but nothing beats fried…in olive oil!

Just have to take an extra blood presure and colesteral pill that day….

Wow! I think that Swany you are deeply “insane”! Just reading your stuff tells me that!-

I must have missed something?

Exactley which part of me is “insane”…I thought I was “sane” and just kinda wondered what was wrong with the rest of the people ?

dude, I’m a chef by trade and fried fish ….(unless a walleye or cod)…Just ..well SUCK! You have to try this recipe next time…You also need to lite up the bbq to do it..

Fresh (Stream caught) trout. (Crappie walleye sunny…ECT)
Fillete the fish..(or De-bone in the case you are lucky enough to have “fresh” trout)
Shake fillete in a bag full of:
1 cup flour
2 Tbls McCormics steak and chop rub
1 tsp ground pepper
Now make a tin foil boat and cut thin strips of butter and lay 2 pats per fish in the tin foil boat..lay the fish on top of the butter..cut a lemon and squeeze juice on top of fish…throw the rind on top of the fish..Now…and this is the secret ..take some saffron between your thumb and forefinger and “lightly” spread across the fish.
place the “BOAT” on the grill and stay there and watch it….3-4 min on one side and “flip” it…depends on the heat of the fire
Sometimes I throw some hickory chips in for a little smoky flavor..
Try this one and You’ll never Eatem fried again….Plus ..
the misses won’t have to scold you on the grease splatter’s

Swany …..

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Exactley which part of me is “insane”

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The part that calls me “dude”….

Ok…Mr. Swany…I have given up on my MOM’s idea that she’s going to keep trying baked, broiled, steamed fish until she finds one that I like….BUT, since your are a chef AND are a member of a fishing website…I’m going to give it a try. Another reason is that I’m hungry and it made my mouth water. I’m a tough sell, but I’ll let you know how it goes…

Thanks…Mom….