MN Wild 2019-2020 Official Thread

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ice Cap wrote:</div>
Koivu has been playing on the 4th line at times. The players we are talking about aren’t going to make it obvious on the ice they are not team players. It’s maybe more of a aloofness in the locker room or lack of interaction with younger players or players outside their click of 3 or 4 guys. Basically doing your job on the ice and going home. Make no effort to create a team chemistry no effort to display leadership in the locker room.

I mentioned this very thing at the end of last season when the Wild were circling the drain and they had 2 college Free Agent signings with the team and they both arrived while on the road. Nico Sturm and Mat Robson. The day Nico arrived, he was never even invited to dinner with the other players on the team and Russo cited this in one of his stories. That is quite telling.
You dont see that sort of thing happen very often and when it does its really not a good sign of the culture within the locker room and speaks volumes about the vets and not in a good way.

A number of us have been talking about this lack of leadership for years now, while others fail to see or acknowledge it.

LTIR the teams will accrue Cap SPace, but that mainly benefits the team if the player is out a significant portion of the season.
Since they would only be getting a player for a portion of the season if a trade happened now, they would only have that pro-rated hit.
As it sits right now Carolina is projected to have $5.5M in Cap space at the trade deadline even though their “on books” Cap Space is just over $1M. Its also possible the Wild could retain some of the salary, but I dont think it would be necessary at all.
Carolina has a lot of Cap space going into next year so they would be fine taking on a longer term deal.

I’m not sure Joe but I think you are right. At the trade deadline I think teams in contention are probably looking for rentals that can contribute now and maybe get them over the hump rather than bring someone on with a few years left on a contract and a big cap hit to deal with next season.

If it’s somebody who looks at Dumba as a long term acquisition rather than just a rental maybe Billy G can make something happen.

Imo Dumba is over rated while Brodin is under rated. Amongst the Wild’s D Dumba is the weak link imo if you are considering defensive play. He has improved on his D play the last few years but he is more focused on scoring which hurts his D. You can clearly see he is clutching the stick way too tight and taking shots he perhaps shouldn’t right now. He wants that scoring touch back he had before he was hurt and right now it ain’t happening.

Right now Brodin has 2 goals 22 assists and is at a plus 13.
Dumba has 4 goals 16 assists and a minus 8

Nothing wrong with a offensive defenseman but they have to know when to become offensive and when to hold back or they quickly become a defensive liability. Right now Brodin gets it. Dumba does not.

Dumba’s rocket start scoring goals before injury last year boosted his value as getting that kind of goal scoring from the defensive position presents an absolute advantage for the team with that player. Watching this season there’s no doubt that Dumba has been snake bitten scoring goals (he’s had a ton of scoring chances but just can’t buy a goal) not sure if that’s a lingering effect of his shoulder injury or just more teams paying greater attention to him on the ice now (especially on the powerplay)

Bottom line, he’s shown he can score, he will be overvalued because of that as every team interested in him thinks/hopes they can get him back to that scoring rate. I’ve already explained my thoughts on our defense (we have way to much $$ tied up in our defense) especially for a team that can’t score goals…Looking at the D contracts (Suter and Spurgeon have long term NTCs) Dumba’s makes the most sense to trade assuming Brodin’s doesn’t get more than $5-$6 million per year if he could be signed long term. If Brodin wants the $7+ per year, then ship him off at next years deadline or you’re just in the same position for more years to come.

Obviously there’s risk in trading Dumba away and he could turn into another Brent Burns, but he’s had 5 years to figure out his game and he’s still somewhat the same player he was in year 1. If BillyG can turn Dumba into a 1st round pick and future 1st/2nd line center prospect (what’s rumored to be offered by Carolina) then I say to make that trade as highly touted Center prospects are hard to come by.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

If BillyG can turn Dumba into a 1st round pick and future 1st/2nd line center prospect (what’s rumored to be offered by Carolina) then I say to make that trade as highly touted Center prospects are hard to come by.

I certainly agree with this. I also agree we have a lot of money tied up in D but I would argue we have one of the best D’s in the NHL and that’s going to cost you. I still think Dumba is the weak link on our skating D men but goal tending has what’s really hurt them. Another problem that Billy G has to deal with.

Ice Cap wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
If BillyG can turn Dumba into a 1st round pick and future 1st/2nd line center prospect (what’s rumored to be offered by Carolina) then I say to make that trade as highly touted Center prospects are hard to come by.

I certainly agree with this. I also agree we have a lot of money tied up in D but I would argue we have one of the best D’s in the NHL and that’s going to cost you. I still think Dumba is the weak link on our skating D men but goal tending has what’s really hurt them. Another problem that Billy G has to deal with.

We’ve had that best D’s lineup the last few years and what has that got us? That’s why i’m fine with trading somebody…

I’m not as worried with our goalie situation, our prospects have looked VERY good this year and perhaps we struggle 1 more year with Dubnyk/Stalock and spot start Kahkonen alot more next year…Hunter Jones has looked really good in junior.

JoeMX1825 wrote:

We’ve had that best D’s lineup the last few years and what has that got us? That’s why i’m fine with trading somebody…

I’m not as worried with our goalie situation, our prospects have looked VERY good this year and perhaps we struggle 1 more year with Dubnyk/Stalock and spot start Kahkonen alot more next year…Hunter Jones has looked really good in junior.

Agree with this!

I feel bad, but I want this team to lose every game the rest of the season…

Getting into the top 2 picks doesn’t assure us of anything, but it’s our best shot at getting out of the hole were in as quickly as possible… I’m tired of the same old Wild hope for a 7th or 8th playoff spot and lose in the first round…i’m willing to take a few painful seasons to hopefully get out of that funk…

I also don’t understand all of the anger around BillyG firing Bruce? He was in the last year of his deal and this team has had a predictable path ever since he took over (win 3 games, then lose 2, win 1 game, then lose 3, win 7 games, then lose 5, etc, etc) It’s time for a change and instead of waiting until the season is over, he acted now likely in a last ditch effort for a playoff run spark? or maybe he felt Bruce had just lost this team or lost some of his desire/focus to coach? screwing up a lineup card is a pretty boneheaded move? Bruce will be paid the remainder of his contract, so don’t feel sorry for him.

The video of the time out at the end of the Sharks game was pretty telling in that the players just stood at the bench doing nothing until Suter skated over to Parise and they started figuring out a plan, the new coach didn’t say a word…

BillyG was brought in to change the attitude and culture of this time the best he can(some key pieces are untouchable with NTC and unmovable salaries) that’s just something he’ll have to deal with.

Every other NHL team typically has an assistant coach or head coach barking orders and a plan during a late game timeout, the Wild? nope they have the “”contracts” delegate everything….

Good catch by @RussoHockey. Here's Dean Evason's timeout with 45.1 seconds remaining in the third period. Players seem to be doing most (if not all) of the coordinating. pic.twitter.com/4xdx1t6cng

— Hockey Wilderness (@hockeywildernes) February 16, 2020

Interesting trade speculation with the teams referenced as dance partners. Montreal being one of them in desperate need of defense. Speculation has Dumba being intriguing to them for his upside and longer duration deal/more security, and some of the notable assets in return would be 1st Rd pick (likely very high) and prospects like: Paehling or Caufield to name a few. You just might end up with your guy afterall Joe!
How about a line of Caufield, Kaprisov and Fiala. That would have some jets for sure along with some serious sniping ability.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Interesting trade speculation with the teams referenced as dance partners. Montreal being one of them in desperate need of defense. Speculation has Dumba being intriguing to them for his upside and longer duration deal/more security, and some of the notable assets in return would be 1st Rd pick (likely very high) and prospects like: Paehling or Caufield to name a few. You just might end up with your guy afterall Joe!
How about a line of Caufield, Kaprisov and Fiala. That would have some jets for sure along with some serious sniping ability.

Interesting rumor I haven’t heard of yet although Montreal isn’t much better than the Wild and making the playoffs will be tough for them… I will eat a little crow in that Boldy has come on incredibly strong the last half of the season and looks like a worthy pick at this point…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I also don’t understand all of the anger around BillyG firing Bruce? He was in the last year of his deal and this team has had a predictable path ever since he took over (win 3 games, then lose 2, win 1 game, then lose 3, win 7 games, then lose 5, etc, etc) It’s time for a change and instead of waiting until the season is over, he acted now likely in a last ditch effort for a playoff run spark? or maybe he felt Bruce had just lost this team or lost some of his desire/focus to coach? screwing up a lineup card is a pretty boneheaded move? Bruce will be paid the remainder of his contract, so don’t feel sorry for him.

I think everyone understood that Bruce was likely on his way out at the end of the season because a new GM is going to want to hire their guy. My problem with the firing is the timing. What is there to gain by doing it this close to the trade deadline? It isnt like the team was playing bad, they had pts in 8 of 11 games. Bruce has done wonders with what he has had to work with this year.
The only thing I can surmise which would make this move now make sense is that he has picked his guy and to prove to that guy that he is going with him in the offseason he felt he needed to get rid of Boudreau now. Using it as a rallying cry to try and make the playoffs should have been done long ago, like before the All Star break or even sooner.

He was probably just annoyed the wild pissed away a point to the rangers. You can’t do that. So if the coach and players can’t hold a lead, why not just dump the coach who was a dead man walking and roll the dice in a last ditch effort. The team wasn’t listening to him anyway, at least the vets.

who knows, maybe it was some crazy ego destroying powerplay move by BillyG towards the untouchable Vets, “You want to f’ing control this team, here, it’s all yours”

Bruce was going either way so to Billy’s thinking what’s the difference. I think he wanted to gauge player reaction letting Bruce go so soon after trading Zucker. Billy is going to have to wrestle the team away from the control of the contracts. Maybe this was an attempt to flush some people out and get a open conversation going.

This could get much uglier before it gets better as far as the attitude and culture on this team. This team has had enough talent that it should certainly not have to worry about just making the playoffs every year. But yet here we are. When the culture of the team is toxic it won’t matter who you bring in it matters more who you send out.

All I know is, I want Foligno on this team next year and I want him to wear the “C”.
He’s a no nonsense guy and those around him really respect him. I dont think Parise or Suter are C material, but I could see Spurgeon as well.
Flushing out some of the vets who are comfortable with the changing culture could be a good tactic. Parise already eluded to the fact the thought about asking for a trade had crossed his mind, but the consequences of that potentially scare the daylights out of me for the fear of him getting hurt.

CaptainMusky wrote:

but the consequences of that potentially scare the daylights out of me for the fear of him getting hurt.

Can you post a link to how that cap-recapture penalty works again? It just doesn’t make sense that the penalty would fall back on the Wild if Parise or Suter were traded? If that’s the case, why wouldn’t another team take the chance on them knowing they wouldn’t be the ones fitting the bill at the end? How are the contracts of out of the league players like Nathan Horton or David Clarkson different?

JoeMX1825 wrote:

Can you post a link to how that cap-recapture penalty works again? It just doesn’t make sense that the penalty would fall back on the Wild if Parise or Suter were traded? If that’s the case, why wouldn’t another team take the chance on them knowing they wouldn’t be the ones fitting the bill at the end? How are the contracts of out of the league players like Nathan Horton or David Clarkson different?

This is a great article that describes it even has the penalty based on a given year they retired.

https://www.hockeywilderness.com/2019/10/31/20937184/minnesota-wild-cap-recapture-penalty-zach-parise-ryan-suter-contracts-roberto-luongo-nhl

I dont see it as a deterrent for other teams because they hold no risk other than paying their salaries while they are with the team.

Im concerned for the Wild because Parise/Suter could certainly stick it to the team if they really wanted to should they agree to waive their NMC.

For the most part this penalty came with the last CBA as a way for the NHL to crack down on the ridiculous long term contracts (Shea Webber, Parise, Suter) where the Salary varied so much and was mere pennies at the end of the contract making them (at the time) viable buyouts. The GMs and owners knew these deals would be risky because these players would be susceptible to injury or game falling off so that is how they structured the salary to be so small at the end. The NHL was irritated by teams trying to circumvent it and basically put this penalty in place that if the player retires early its really going to penalize the organization.

I will say this caveat, I think the only time a player would really “retire” instead of going on an LTIR type deal would be if they were trying to stick it to the old team.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Parise already eluded to the fact the thought about asking for a trade had crossed his mind, but the consequences of that potentially scare the daylights out of me for the fear of him getting hurt.

Gonna have to let go of that fear and move forward. Hard to put a price on culture anyway. Would rather start a good culture sooner than later, regardless of anything else.

And, like I said a few posts ago… if it means healthy scratching some of these guys to send a message and/or force the issue.. so be it.

CaptainMusky wrote:

I think everyone understood that Bruce was likely on his way out at the end of the season because a new GM is going to want to hire their guy. My problem with the firing is the timing. What is there to gain by doing it this close to the trade deadline?

Totally agree. I’m wondering if this isn’t a classic symptom of Gurin suffering from an RGMF? Rookie GM Freakout.

I’m not convinced yet that Gurin has what it takes. And after the Fenton Fiasco, he’ll feel the laser beam eyes of Craig boring into the back of his head and that’s probably what made him push the Coach Eject button with questionable benefits as far as timing.

Gurin has a long way to go. The trade with Pittsburgh is a one-foot putt because he had firsthand insider knowledge of both the Pens organization, motivations, and the players he was trading for. He was basically playing a poker game where he could see both his hand and the opponent’s hand.

There won’t be any more situations like that, now it’s time to put the GM big boy pants on and prove that you can make real deals where you don’t get to see the opponent’s cards.

I don’t get how any advantage could be gained by the timing, but we’ll see if Gurin has a plan that he can execute on.

Grouse

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
Can you post a link to how that cap-recapture penalty works again? It just doesn’t make sense that the penalty would fall back on the Wild if Parise or Suter were traded? If that’s the case, why wouldn’t another team take the chance on them knowing they wouldn’t be the ones fitting the bill at the end? How are the contracts of out of the league players like Nathan Horton or David Clarkson different?

This is a great article that describes it even has the penalty based on a given year they retired.

https://www.hockeywilderness.com/2019/10/31/20937184/minnesota-wild-cap-recapture-penalty-zach-parise-ryan-suter-contracts-roberto-luongo-nhl

I dont see it as a deterrent for other teams because they hold no risk other than paying their salaries while they are with the team.

Im concerned for the Wild because Parise/Suter could certainly stick it to the team if they really wanted to should they agree to waive their NMC.

For the most part this penalty came with the last CBA as a way for the NHL to crack down on the ridiculous long term contracts (Shea Webber, Parise, Suter) where the Salary varied so much and was mere pennies at the end of the contract making them (at the time) viable buyouts. The GMs and owners knew these deals would be risky because these players would be susceptible to injury or game falling off so that is how they structured the salary to be so small at the end. The NHL was irritated by teams trying to circumvent it and basically put this penalty in place that if the player retires early its really going to penalize the organization.

I will say this caveat, I think the only time a player would really “retire” instead of going on an LTIR type deal would be if they were trying to stick it to the old team.

I just don’t see this happening, the NHL would be open to litigation for creating a poison-pill rule AFTER the contracts were signed. I could see some sort of “agreement” like the Kovalchuk case where there’s an off the books monetary penalty, but nothing like the doom and gloom scenarios the article talks about…the new CBA will likely address it as well…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

I just don’t see this happening, the NHL would be open to litigation for creating a poison-pill rule AFTER the contracts were signed. I could see some sort of “agreement” like the Kovalchuk case where there’s an off the books monetary penalty, but nothing like the doom and gloom scenarios the article talks about…the new CBA will likely address it as well…

But it has already happened. Roberto Luongo retired from FLA and the Canucks had to pay $3.XXM for 3 years. So yes, it can and will happen. This very topic came up last week because of the Webber injury and there was worry he wouldnt come back and what that would mean to the Preds. I think I read the year correct, but if he retired with 1 year left on the contract I believe the Preds would have a $24M penalty.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
I just don’t see this happening, the NHL would be open to litigation for creating a poison-pill rule AFTER the contracts were signed. I could see some sort of “agreement” like the Kovalchuk case where there’s an off the books monetary penalty, but nothing like the doom and gloom scenarios the article talks about…the new CBA will likely address it as well…

But it has already happened. Roberto Luongo retired from FLA and the Canucks had to pay $3.XXM for 3 years. So yes, it can and will happen. This very topic came up last week because of the Webber injury and there was worry he wouldnt come back and what that would mean to the Preds. I think I read the year correct, but if he retired with 1 year left on the contract I believe the Preds would have a $24M penalty.

I’m more talking about the absurd worst case scenarios…no way the NHL lets a franchise die for a year or two…

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Totally agree. I’m wondering if this isn’t a classic symptom of Gurin suffering from an RGMF? Rookie GM Freakout.

^^^^^ FWHUA ^^^^^

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Grouse

^^^^^ Should have his own Hockeyday Minnesota ^^^^^

We are all thankful for your humor

Bill, it’s Toronto on line one…

Another goal for Zucker last night. They come pretty easy when you have Crosby threading a pass through the paint and all you have to do is tap it in the open net! Not taking away anything from Jason he will earn his share as he gets acclimated to the team.

Jason has got be thinking man I didn’t know how bad it was in Minnesota until I came here! Must be an awakening for him.

Ice Cap wrote:

Another goal for Zucker last night. They come pretty easy when you have Crosby threading a pass through the paint and all you have to do is tap it in the open net! Not taking away anything from Jason he will earn his share as he gets acclimated to the team.

Jason has got be thinking man I didn’t know how bad it was in Minnesota until I came here! Must be an awakening for him.

Zucker’s 3 goals have been ALL CROSBY and with the Penguins one of the top 3 teams in the NHL right now, i’m sure players on the 28 other teams would say the same thing about playing in Pittsburgh than their current team..

JoeMX1825 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ice Cap wrote:</div>
Another goal for Zucker last night. They come pretty easy when you have Crosby threading a pass through the paint and all you have to do is tap it in the open net! Not taking away anything from Jason he will earn his share as he gets acclimated to the team.

Jason has got be thinking man I didn’t know how bad it was in Minnesota until I came here! Must be an awakening for him.

Zucker’s 3 goals have been ALL CROSBY and with the Penguins one of the top 3 teams in the NHL right now, i’m sure players on the 28 other teams would say the same thing about playing in Pittsburgh than their current team..

Every one of Crosby’s assists when you look at the replays he had wide open looks and often gaping nets to shoot at yet he passed the puck to someone else (Zucker in many cases) and they score.
The Wild have never had a playmaker close to that ability. Hopefully we have someone soon because there is skill on this roster, but no one who can elevate the other players like Crosby can.

Well that’s kind of what I said it’s easy with Crosby feeding you the puck on the door step. But I’ll give Jason some credit as he will earn some goals on his own as well. He’s no Crosby but he can put the puck in the net with his own skills.

As far as guys from the other 28 feeling the release as I’m assuming Zucker must feel that’s a variable depending on what team you come from. The worse the conditions you came from the more of a eye opener it is. For Zucker I’m guessing it’s more than most.

JZ might like mn, but doubt he’s gunna miss playing for the captains on the wild.