MN Wild 2019-2020 Official Thread

based on all of the rumors lately, let’s look at who could realistically get traded and what their return should be…

Brodin (still has a year left on a very good team contract)
His positives – We know what we have in Brodin, he’s not going to start scoring goals, he’s always going to be the very steady D-man you can trust and a surething top 4 d-man
His negatives – He will never be a scoring defenseman, he’s not the type of physical defenseman you need in the playoffs.
His potential return – Possibly a 1st round pick or a top 3 prospect or two
If he replaceable? – Will likely want a decent raise after next season, you can find other players with similar skillsets and minimize his loss by splitting up Suter & Spurgeon

Dumba (3 years left on a good team contract)
His Positives – Shows flashes of offensive brilliance and has a big right handed shot from the point, physical defenseman.
His Negatives – Has a tendency to make bone headed plays, cheats on offense sometimes and can be a defensive liability, recent injury history.
His potential return – His age & offensive potential should get you a 1st and other high draft picks or legit top 3 prospects.
Is he replaceable? – No, You risk trading away a probable franchise defenseman not yet in his prime..

Zucker (3 years left on a good team contract)
His positives – He’s a goal scorer, speed game opens up ice for others
His negatives – Streaky scorer, goes through slumps, injury history, M-NTC
His potential return – 1st and other high round pick or top 3 prospect
Is he replaceable? – Not at his current contract price, similar scorer will cost you much more $$, he has 40 goal potential if he can stay healthy.

Foligno (1 year left at $2.875 million)
Positives – vocal leader, physical presence on the ice, will contribute some offense
Negatives – expensive for a 4th line player, marginal for a 3rd line player, will want a sizeable raise next contract.
His potential return – 2nd or multiple 4th+ round picks
Is he replaceable – Short term no, but long term Greenway should take his role with more offensive upside.

Pateryn (1 year left at $2.25 million)
His positives – he’s a steady 3rd pair d-man
His negatives – he’s an expensive 3rd pair d-man
His potential return – mid level draft pick or prospect
is he replaceable? – yes with Seeler who’s $1.5 million cheaper…trade him at all costs..

Donato (1 year left at $1.9 million)
His positives – shoot first guy, potential to be a consistent 20-30 goal scorer.
His negatives – slow skater, can get pushed off the puck, stuck in 4th line purgatory…
His potential return – a 3rd or multiple 4th+ round picks
is he replaceable – probably, but there’s risk in trading him away and he flourishes after finally given a top 6/9 role opportunity…

Dubnyk (1 year left at $4.3 million)
Positives – has stretches where he can dominate for weeks, very good and consistent regular season stats over his career.
Negatives – prone to letting in bad goals, not much success in the playoffs, M-NTC
His potential return – If there’s a needy team he could fetch multiple 2nd+ round picks, if there’s not much goalie need, he wouldn’t get much return as a backup…
Is he replaceable – we have multiple goalie prospects in our system that will need to start getting their chance.

Staal – (1 year left at $3.25 million)
His positives – Center, Good leader, can still get on point streaks and played well enough to get an All-Star game invite.
His Negatives – near the end of his career, potential to break down physically, limited M-NTC
His potential return – Rumors of a 1st offered for him last year, not sure he could get that again this year? 2nd+ picks possible
Is he replaceable – Yes, Kunin potentially ready to step into his role.

Koivu (UFA next year)
Positives – experienced, faceoff guy, still plays a good defensive game key in the playoffs
Negatives – not scorer anymore, is he willing to accept a reduced role on a contending team? Full no trade clause he would have to lift.
His potential return – 2nd or 3rd+ picks
Is he replaceable – Yes, likely to retire next year anyways

All I know is that we need a GM who comes out AHEAD on trades and there has never been a time in recent organization history where we were in a better position to take teams looking to fill playoff gaps and rake them over the coals.

There is absolute no excuse except total GM incompetence for any seller teams to come out on the short end of the deal in this environment. Look at the races both in the Pacific where there are about 6 teams within 1 point of each other and then the whole East is super-competitive as well. Even the division-leading teams have to be looking to avoid last year’s debacle with top regular-season teams exiting in the first round.

Great list from Joe of the leading suspects, but Bill needs to absolutely bleed them until they squeal. Drain their prospects and drain their picks. No deal is better than a bad deal, especially with a player like Zucker and IMO the risk of trading him for prospects and getting screwed when they don’t turn into the player that Zucker was is about 80%. Highly risky move and the Wild cannot afford any more loser GMs that can’t get trades right.

I just want to see Gurin show his hand a little bit because the first trades he makes will say a LOT about his strategy. Or in the case of past GMs, the lack of a strategy.

I HOPE that the reason there have been no trades so far is down to Gurin driving a very hard bargain.

As far as Bruce, saying he will eventually go is a statement of the obvious. The average NHL coach’s tenure is 2.5 years, so saying Bruce is on his way out is like saying the sun will rise. The question is what is the strategy and how does Bruce fit with that strategy? My point is that changing coaches now does nothing for the Wild even in the short term because coaching is not our problem, our problem is bad play in our defensive zone by players that know better and streaky goaltending, especially by Staylock. Changing coaches doesn’t fix that.

Good win for the Wild last night against the Leadwings. The first goal against us was just awful luck, but the rest of the effort was solid.

Grouse

Saw a trade rumor that would send Dumba to the Leafs from Hockey Feed.

Pagnotta reports on a potential deal between the Leafs and Wild centered around with Kasperi Kapanen or Andreas Johnsson headed to Minny as part of a package with Cody Ceci.

hop307 wrote:

Saw a trade rumor that would send Dumba to the Leafs from Hockey Feed.

Pagnotta reports on a potential deal between the Leafs and Wild centered around with Kasperi Kapanen or Andreas Johnsson headed to Minny as part of a package with Cody Ceci.

That’s not enough…Ceci is on the last year of his deal so he’s just a throw in for them to free a roster spot. Kapanen is a right hand shot with 2 years left on a bridge deal and Johnsson has 3 more years on his bridge deal… Kapanen is the better of the two, but not at Dumba’s potential for a 1 to 1 trade, we would need a top prospect or picks added and they don’t have a 1st rounder this year…

this also doesn’t solve our too many top 6 players issue with Kaprizov coming next year…

Ripjiggen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
All you have to look at with this club is the lack of any kind of consistency since Parise and Suter got here. Now, I’m not saying it’s their fault, but it doesn’t matter who was behind the bench, each year they look like the best team in the league for a couple weeks then they look like the worst for three weeks.

Until this core is gone, it ain’t changing.

Sounds consistent to me.

I see what you did there!

hop307 wrote:

Saw a trade rumor that would send Dumba to the Leafs from Hockey Feed.

I am not sure where you saw that referenced, but there are a TON of sites that post crap all the time and they are never verified or confirmed. Its just some desk jockey spit-balling stuff to get likes. I dont trust anything I dont hear from a reputable source like Bob McKenzie, Rutherford, Draeger, Russo to name a few.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>hop307 wrote:</div>
Saw a trade rumor that would send Dumba to the Leafs from Hockey Feed.

I am not sure where you saw that referenced, but there are a TON of sites that post crap all the time and they are never verified or confirmed. Its just some desk jockey spit-balling stuff to get likes. I dont trust anything I dont hear from a reputable source like Bob McKenzie, Rutherford, Draeger, Russo to name a few.

I think Hockey Feed and Trade Rumors get their “reports” from Facebook comment sections. The only “reputable” articles they publish are when they blatantly plagiarize The Athletic.

Dumba has more career points than Kapanen and Johnson combined, and they’re forwards on a high scoring team. Hard pass. If dumba goes to Toronto it NEEEDS to be Nylander and no less. He’s in the middle of a monster slump (2% shooting percentage) a year after a big injury… Don’t sell low BG.

tswoboda wrote:

Dumba has more career points than Kapanen and Johnson combined, and they’re forwards on a high scoring team. Hard pass. If dumba goes to Toronto it NEEEDS to be Nylander and no less. He’s in the middle of a monster slump (2% shooting percentage) a year after a big injury… Don’t sell low BG.

Toronto needs defense in the worst way, but TBH as much upside as Dumba may have offensively, he is nowhere near the defenseman that Brodin is. You take Brodin out of this lineup and its a huge blow. He is such a smooth skater and it is just incredible how he is like a one man breakout.
Yeah, he may not score much, but he gets the puck out of our end better than anyone else.

The in way I’d trade Dumba for Nylander is if the trade also involved top farm players and Torontos R1 pick.

Nylander could easily be the next Charlie Coyle. We have to get more than that.

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

The in way I’d trade Dumba for Nylander is if the trade also involved top farm players and Toronts R1 pick.

Nylander could easily be the next Charlie Could. We have to get more than that

Grouse

Toronto doesn’t have a #1 pick this year and if we’re truly being honest, what has Dumba done outside of his 30 game goal pace last year before a major injury that would warrant his perceived worth that much more than Nylander’s?

just curious…

Just my fear that Nylander could be injury prone I don’t see Dumba the same way.

Ok, the potential of a 30+ goal guy is attractive. But…

Is another winger really the priority? With Koivu questionable to return and Staal on the block?

But ok, I grant you a line with Nylander on RW and Kaprisov on LW does have some modest appeal… But centered by ??? Here we go with the centerman question again.

My point is it’s a seller’s market and we need a GM that is smart enough to take advantage of it. Only an idiot/Paul Fenton would do 1:1 swaps in this tight race environment.

Toronto is desperate. We need more and we can get more out of Toronto. We need to stop being the laughing stock of NHL trades.

Grouse

I agree and I like the trade, just thinking us Wild fans might be over-selling Dumba’s value a tad… I like the future umbrella powerplay idea of a single high d-man (Suter or Spurgeon) with 1 time shooters on either board sides (Nylander & Kaprizov) with Parise and Greenway in front of the net…quick passes around the umbrella and catch the goalie moving, Greenway creates chaos in front of the net, Parise cleans up rebounds, basically what Tampa does with Hedman, Stamkos and Kucherov…

With all that said, have you heard the slightest mention by any legit source that there really is a conversation going on between MN and the Leafs at all? Much less specific players including Nylander being named.

I don’t think Toronto would give him up and if they did, wouldn’t it have to be as some kind of package deal that brought in some offense as well? I mean, what’s the point of bringing in the D for the playoff run if you lose a 30+ goal guy in the process? Defense is good, but nobody ever won a 0-0 hockey game.

Granted, this is the Leafs and not making the playoffs in Toronto means they don’t just want the coach, GM, and water boy fired, they want them flogged in the public square and then fired, so….

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

With all that said, have you heard the slightest mention by any legit source that there really is a conversation going on between MN and the Leafs at all? Much less specific players including Nylander being named.

No confirmed reports of actual talks, just speculation of Toronto pursuing Defensive top 4 guy.
Toronto does have a 2021 1st Round pick which could be bundled in a deal. Toronto also has one of the best farm/prospect pools in the NHL too.
I honestly think it is easier to replace a 50 to 60 pt guy than a potential 30 goal defenseman and that is the angle that Guerin should be working.
I dont think Dumba will ever accomplish that personally.

If Koivu returns I’m done watching.

No legitimacy to it as far as I know but just saw a report of the islanders possibly being interested in Parise. Long shot story I’m sure but there are some points that were interesting in the article. If the wild go into full sell mode makes me wonder if this would become more than speculation

– would be playing under Lou L again which is who he got his start with in Jersey.

– JP played there for a few years

– Isles need to shake things up after a fairly mediocre start compared to last year

Zach Peterson wrote:

No legitimacy to it as far as I know but just saw a report of the islanders possibly being interested in Parise. Long shot story I’m sure but there are some points that were interesting in the article. If the wild go into full sell mode makes me wonder if this would become more than speculation

– would be playing under Lou L again which is who he got his start with in Jersey.

– JP played there for a few years

– Isles need to shake things up after a fairly mediocre start compared to last year

That would certainly open things up for the wild, but man oh man, that would scare the living crap out of me if I were Bill Guerin considering the Cap Recapture penalty would fall back on the Wild if he were to retire early.

Simply put – the Wild just need to plain tank until after the Expansion draft.
The team is stuck in a mediocre spiraling vortex.
The GM is again stuck with a team that has a severe lack of talent, and the top players on the club seem highly unmotivated. The current state of this roster makes dealing the majority of them difficult at best.
If you were on the opposite side of these deals that are proposed what GM in their right mind hand over any high value players. Do you really think that Guerin will be able to fleece another GM out of cream of the talent pool on those clubs? Highly Doubtful.
Coach BB needs to be replaced, not because of his coaching skills it’s just so obvious that the players he needs to lead this team,CAN”T DO IT!
Lets make some trades acquire as much young talent as possible and gut it out for a few seasons here.

Toronto has way too much $$ tied up in forwards and only has Morgan Reilly and a 18 year old rookie signed for next year. Every trade rumor website (including TSN) says they are shopping for a top 4 D that is already locked into a contract for next year that they could theoretically swap for one of their forward contracts…They don’t want to give up a Kapanen or Nylander, but they realize you’re not going to get a top 4 d-man without giving up something substantial back…

In terms of the risk trading Parise or Suter away and then getting hit with the cap-recapture penalty down the road, I think that’s the risk you take in order to get their contract off your books asap. It’s not any better to keep playing them at that cap hit hoping they either somehow find the fountain of youth or have a legit retirement injury that doesn’t kick in the penalty.

I’m excited to see what BillyG can do…it would be a nice change to finally be the team doing the fleecing in a trade….

JoeMX1825 wrote:

In terms of the risk trading Parise or Suter away and then getting hit with the cap-recapture penalty down the road, I think that’s the risk you take in order to get their contract off your books asap. It’s not any better to keep playing them at that cap hit hoping they either somehow find the fountain of youth or have a legit retirement injury that doesn’t kick in the penalty.

100% AGREE

lindyrig79 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
In terms of the risk trading Parise or Suter away and then getting hit with the cap-recapture penalty down the road, I think that’s the risk you take in order to get their contract off your books asap. It’s not any better to keep playing them at that cap hit hoping they either somehow find the fountain of youth or have a legit retirement injury that doesn’t kick in the penalty.

100% AGREE

Except they are both playing really well now. Parise is leading the team in goals for the second straight year. He is certainly going to get some interest I would think, how serious IDK.

The other thing about this whole recapture is perhaps something could happen if it ever came to that. Example, he could potentially just be put on LTIR provided he doesnt retire. He could also go AWOL like Byfuglien is doing this year where he is suspended without pay. Will be interesting to hear how that plays out in a few years when someone talks about it. I have a VERY sneaky suspicion there was collusion there because there is no way the Jets could afford his contract so this is a convenient way for them to have some relief.

Ripjiggen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheFamousGrouse wrote:</div>
The in way I’d trade Dumba for Nylander is if the trade also involved top farm players and Torontos R1 pick.

Nylander could easily be the next Charlie Coyle. We have to get more than that.

Grouse

You don’t honestly think Toronto would trade Nylander and a first round pick for Dumba do you? That’s laughable.

You think the Leafs are going to make or go anywhere in the playoffs without adding something to their defense?

Not trading Dumba at the deadline hurts us not at all. Toronto can’t say the same. R1 pick? Maybe not, but we need way more than a 1:1 Fentard trade

Time to drive much harder bargain. The Wild need to quit being the NHL trade chump.

Grouse

slightly off topic, but what can be done about the NHL all-star game? The 3-3 tourney just doesn’t do it anymore as it looks like Beer-league in slow motion…

It’s not to the levels of stupidity the Probowl is, but it’s getting there…

IDK, I really only get any entertainment value out of the skills competition vs the actual game itself.
I think the inclusion of the womens game was a nice touch this year and it sounds like even further involvement with women’s hockey is planned into the future. My only gripe was that 3 on 3 showcase for the women they didnt resurface the ice before. That was pretty poor that they didnt take the 15 minutes to do that.
Otherwise that was really a fun watch for me.

Skills competition is the only thing I care to watch. The womens 3 on 3 was decent. But the NHL 3 on 3 ugh! Not much more different than the shoot out competition. They need to design a game that means something. Baseball puts it on the line by the winner getting home field for the World Series.

I know they don’t want to risk any of the ticket selling players getting hurt in the All Star game but dang it was boring!

Ice Cap wrote:

Skills competition is the only thing I care to watch. The womens 3 on 3 was decent. But the NHL 3 on 3 ugh! Not much more different than the shoot out competition. They need to design a game that means something. Baseball puts it on the line by the winner getting home field for the World Series.

I know they don’t want to risk any of the ticket selling players getting hurt in the All Star game but dang it was boring!

I agree and even the skills competition is getting boring, there are plenty of different skill events they could add that would make it more enjoyable…

The shooting from the stands was a stupid gimmick as over 1/2 the players didn’t register a point..

The on-ice camera angle was just terrible for the break-away challenge as it was too shaky and behind the play too often…

The accuracy shooting electronics are a joke as most guys hit the target without it registering and one player missed by a foot yet it registered a hit, bring back the breakable targets!

Fastest Skater and Hardest Shot are the most enjoyable to watch because the players are really trying to win them…

JoeMX1825 wrote:

The shooting from the stands was a stupid gimmick as over 1/2 the players didn’t register a point..

I agree a stupid gimmick but I think all but one person hit the 10 point goal.

Ice Cap wrote:

Baseball puts it on the line by the winner getting home field for the World Series.

Actually that’s no longer the case. I know a lot of people didn’t like that but it made the game worth playing. Now it’s just like every other ASG again. BORING.

It’s just the way things are going with all-star games in any of the contact sports. Sports are a business and the athletes that go to an ASG are WAY too valuable to risk in even one non-value-added contest. That’s just the way it is.

With the risk limitations, the owners are willing to accept, the format is going to be basically constrained to gimmicks and contests. I don’t really care what they are, I find all this stuff boring to watch, so I don’t.

I get it, it’s a big $$$ generator as far as ad and sponsorship revenue, so it will always happen, but I just take a few days off and look forward to the games starting again.

BTW, Carolina sources say Hurricanes offer Erik Haula for Staal or a combo of players/prospects for Brodin.

Grouse

ASGs are boring to me period. Back when being an all-star meant something and also helped guys pad their bank account. I remember collecting sports cards and it meant something when you got an allstar. Do they still require 1 player from each team? No all star game should be voted on by the fans.

Don’t get me wrong, I like the break.