MN Wild 2019-2020 Official Thread

  • TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11654
    #1894806

    Yes, Parise scored a nice goal and (like the rest of the team) has played a very good 10 game stretch, but you can’t say he didn’t look absolutely terrible the first 10 games to start the season?

    and Bruce even joked in the post game presser that Koivu hasn’t scored in the shootout in like two years, but he thought what the hell, it’s his 1,0000th game and put him out there…

    Certainly, Parise and a whole lot of the rest of the team looked bloody awful in the first 10 games. If you ran this or any other hockey club by how a player plays in a 10 game stretch, then we’d have traded Charlie Coyle after 12 games.

    I’m just pointing out that the TMSF’ers give no credit to any player who didn’t score yesterday. That includes defensemen and goalies, BTW. To the TMSF’er, those latter two are a special brand of slacker.

    I love the moaning “wish we could get rid of Parise/Suter” comments. Yes, let’s get rid of our current scoring leader and our #1 defenseman. Yeah, sooner is better. It shows what a TMSF rewards you with when you stay in MN too long or “make too much money”. Nobody’s calling for Ek, Greenway, Donoto, etc to be traded and they need to get going way worse than Parise.

    Grouse

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17882
    #1894825

    I love the moaning “wish we could get rid of Parise/Suter” comments. Yes, let’s get rid of our current scoring leader and our #1 defenseman. Yeah, sooner is better. It shows what a TMSF rewards you with when you stay in MN too long or “make too much money”. Nobody’s calling for Ek, Greenway, Donoto, etc to be traded and they need to get going way worse than Parise.

    Grouse

    I think the main issue most folks have with Parise and Suter is frustration that we’re stuck with them for 5 more years after this one and we can’t do anything about it (they have ntc’s and their age/cap hit will likely keep them untradeable) and there’s even several scenarios where we’ll pay HUGE cap penalties if they retire early, even if they are playing for another team.
    They are both very good hockey players and quality citizens and nothing is personal against them.
    Sure they are still leaders on this team now, but other than the purple unicorns (Gordie Howe, Zedeno Chara & Chris Chelios) their games will start to rapidly drop as the years go on (especially in today’s speedy NHL) so we’ll continue paying a big % of our cap on aging players with diminished roles. The architect of their deals was fired 2 years ago, yet the fans must suffer through all of it. We were the last team to do the 10+ year contracts for +28 year old FA’s and we’ll pay for it dearly…

    I’m sure Ek, Donato and Greenway would love to have the Ice time (total & Power play) and skilled linemates Parise and Suter get to have each game. I’m sure their stats would be much improved.

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1894840

    My frustration lies with Suter more than Parise and always has. He is laziest player I’ve ever seen constantly get credit for being such a “Minutes Eater”. Well guess what? It’s because he never skates. Not to mention every other pass he makes is in a guy’s skates. I think he is a huge reason why our power play has been so slow over the past few years. His passes from the point are so bad to the guys that could one time a pass they don’t ever get the chance to.

    Parise at least works his tail end off which has allowed him to overcome his stone hands for the most part.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17882
    #1894846

    My frustration lies with Suter more than Parise and always has. He is laziest player I’ve ever seen constantly get credit for being such a “Minutes Eater”. Well guess what? It’s because he never skates. Not to mention every other pass he makes is in a guy’s skates. I think he is a huge reason why our power play has been so slow over the past few years. His passes from the point are so bad to the guys that could one time a pass they don’t ever get the chance to.

    Parise at least works his tail end off which has allowed him to overcome his stone hands for the most part.

    sorry, I have to disagree with this… Suter is one of those rare players that “looks” lazy only because he’s so efficient with his strides and positioning. Retired HOF RedWing Nicklas Lidstrom was very similar (obviously much better offensively) in that his positioning game was so perfect, he looked lazy on the ice, rarely ever took a good hit on the boards.

    I have noticed this year minor issues with Suter’s consistency, but only because he’s typically so good they now stand out a bit… between him and Parise, I expect Suter to still be a very good player at the end of his contract because he has less wear on his body and the type of game he plays.

    I do think they need to reduce his minutes, especially on the powerplay…why he get’s 1:15 of the power play time and leaves Dumba with the last 40-45 seconds boggles the mind…

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1894849

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mahtofire14 wrote:</div>
    My frustration lies with Suter more than Parise and always has. He is laziest player I’ve ever seen constantly get credit for being such a “Minutes Eater”. Well guess what? It’s because he never skates. Not to mention every other pass he makes is in a guy’s skates. I think he is a huge reason why our power play has been so slow over the past few years. His passes from the point are so bad to the guys that could one time a pass they don’t ever get the chance to.

    Parise at least works his tail end off which has allowed him to overcome his stone hands for the most part.

    sorry, I have to disagree with this… Suter is one of those rare players that “looks” lazy only because he’s so efficient with his strides and positioning. Retired HOF RedWing Nicklas Lidstrom was very similar (obviously much better offensively) in that his positioning game was so perfect, he looked lazy on the ice, rarely ever took a good hit on the boards.

    I get that and I agree with that up until this year. But there are times where he lets guys go right around him and doesn’t make the play he needs to and puts the defense in tough situations.s And I still think he passing is horrendous.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11654
    #1894914

    I think the main issue most folks have with Parise and Suter is frustration that we’re stuck with them for 5 more years after this one and we can’t do anything about it (they have ntc’s and their age/cap hit will likely keep them untradeable) and there’s even several scenarios where we’ll pay HUGE cap penalties if they retire early, even if they are playing for another team.

    Yes, we all get the deal with Parise/Suter’s long contracts. So why weren’t all the TMSF’ers calling for Fletcher to be fired for signing those two to those long contracts?

    Nothing can be done about it now and it’s just one of those characteristics of all TMSFs to hate the player who signs the contract rather than the GM who negotiated it. It is the same all over MN sports. Mauer, same with Cousins, etc, etc.

    Our weakest link in all of Wild history has been the GM position. Why get mad at the players for it? IMO this is an accepted fact, we have had 3 of the worst GM’s in modern hockey history and we’ve never had a single GM who was even above average. Gurin MAY change that, but Risboro was terrible, Fletcher was a C- player in an A league, and Fenton was possibly the dumbest GM in the history of the NHL. Is it any surprise that Fletch signed poor contracts? He was DESPERATE to make THE big deal and prove he really was a big boy, but he overplayed his hand. Where were the cries to fire him back then?

    I agree 100% regarding Suter. He looks lazy because he doesn’t have to flop around the ice like a chicken with its head cut off. For those who think Suter is lazy, then why is he almost never out of position? He’s also very solid with the puck and he’s almost impossible for an opposing player to separate from the puck.

    The bottom line is Suter haters hate him because of what they perceive his personality and work ethic to be like. For whatever reason, the fact that he’s not a screamer and doesn’t show a lot of outward emotion on the ice = lazy slacker to them. Also we hear over and over this “Suter is a locker room cancer” theory. Problem is NOBODY who has ever been in the Wild dressing room actually backs up that theory.

    Koivu gets the same treatment which baffles me completely, but shows how clueless the TMSF is. He gets labeled as “emotionless” and “lacks leadership”. Again, nobody in the dressing room every backs up any of these theories, in fact they say just the opposite.

    Grouse

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1894924

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JoeMX1825 wrote:</div>
    I think the main issue most folks have with Parise and Suter is frustration that we’re stuck with them for 5 more years after this one and we can’t do anything about it (they have ntc’s and their age/cap hit will likely keep them untradeable) and there’s even several scenarios where we’ll pay HUGE cap penalties if they retire early, even if they are playing for another team.

    Yes, we all get the deal with Parise/Suter’s long contracts. So why weren’t all the TMSF’ers calling for Fletcher to be fired for signing those two to those long contracts?

    Nothing can be done about it now and it’s just one of those characteristics of all TMSFs to hate the player who signs the contract rather than the GM who negotiated it. It is the same all over MN sports. Mauer, same with Cousins, etc, etc.

    Our weakest link in all of Wild history has been the GM position. Why get mad at the players for it? IMO this is an accepted fact, we have had 3 of the worst GM’s in modern hockey history and we’ve never had a single GM who was even above average. Gurin MAY change that, but Risboro was terrible, Fletcher was a C- player in an A league, and Fenton was possibly the dumbest GM in the history of the NHL. Is it any surprise that Fletch signed poor contracts? He was DESPERATE to make THE big deal and prove he really was a big boy, but he overplayed his hand. Where were the cries to fire him back then?

    I agree 100% regarding Suter. He looks lazy because he doesn’t have to flop around the ice like a chicken with its head cut off. For those who think Suter is lazy, then why is he almost never out of position? He’s also very solid with the puck and he’s almost impossible for an opposing player to separate from the puck.

    The bottom line is Suter haters hate him because of what they perceive his personality and work ethic to be like. For whatever reason, the fact that he’s not a screamer and doesn’t show a lot of outward emotion on the ice = lazy slacker to them. Also we hear over and over this “Suter is a locker room cancer” theory. Problem is NOBODY who has ever been in the Wild dressing room actually backs up that theory.

    Koivu gets the same treatment which baffles me completely, but shows how clueless the TMSF is. He gets labeled as “emotionless” and “lacks leadership”. Again, nobody in the dressing room every backs up any of these theories, in fact they say just the opposite.

    Grouse

    So when a player skates around Suter and gets a shot on goal unabated to the goalie he’s in position? I get he never plays the body and always the puck but when that leads to shots on goal I when they could have been stopped I’m not so sure that’s really being in position. And I don’t think anyone can defend his awful passing.

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5805
    #1894936

    Oh, don’t forget that in addition to Suters effortless style of play, he doesn’t hit anyone and he doesn’t score. Just the type of player we should build around doah

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1894943

    Oh, don’t forget that in addition to Suters effortless style of play, he doesn’t hit anyone and he doesn’t score. Just the type of player we should build around doah

    I actually only have started disliking him more recently, you can’t really complain about his overall tenure. Is he the best player in the world, no, but he’s been an above average defenseman for a long time. Recently though he drive me a little crazy.

    fishinfreaks
    Rogers, MN
    Posts: 1154
    #1894944

    How often does Suter really get skated around? Seriously. A couple times here and there. It happens to every player. This complaint is just someone with an axe to grind and wanting to sound like they know something. He is one of the best, most efficient and powerful skaters one the ice. His positioning is too notch. And his ability to possess the puck is also top end.

    By the way, what is TMSF? I looked it up, but I don’t think we’re saying “too many smiley faces”.

    Ice Cap
    Posts: 2161
    #1894957

    TMSF=Typical Minnesota Sports Fan. IMO Suter gets too hung up on his toi and wants to be the leader of toi every year. That’s all fine but to me it becomes obvious that when he logs nearly 30 minutes every regular season game he starts to wear down by the end of the regular season going into the playoffs which is when you need him on his game the most.

    Watching him he does get skated around more often later in the year. Of course all the local talking heads on FSN always makes a big deal of his toi and how efficient he is etc. and Suter must buy into his own press. But to me he needs to be cut back a bit which they are doing and try to even it out. Besides toi is a over rated stat like Koivu’s face off wins.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22823
    #1894962

    Yes, we all get the deal with Parise/Suter’s long contracts. So why weren’t all the TMSF’ers calling for Fletcher to be fired for signing those two to those long contracts?

    Everyone was ecstatic when we signed both of the top coveted FAs to long term deals that they would have gotten pretty much anywhere else. They actually turned down more money elsewhere to sign here.
    The thing that turned those contracts into instant concern was the NHL plugging in the cap recapture penalty the following year which made those contracts nearly impossible to buy out or really penalize the team in the waning years of the contract. The Canucks are facing this issue right now with Luongo’s retirement after he left Vancouver and now retired. They are getting socked for $3MM cap hit and the guy isnt even playing.
    Then you have guys like Ryan Callahan who can go on LTIR and save teams millions of dollars.
    The system is flawed. Marian Hossa “helped” the Hawks out with this similar scenario that played out with his illness (though it appears legit).
    IMO it isnt fair for the league to penalize teams for long term deals with salary structures with very decreased value in the waning years should a player get injured or retire if they are going to allow LTIR to bail out other teams.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1894972

    By the way, what is TMSF? I looked it up, but I don’t think we’re saying “too many smiley faces”.

    Grouse summed it up in the gopher football thread a couple weeks ago.

    Let’s not go all Typical Minnesota Sports Fan (TMSF) now. Remember, to the TMSF NOTHING is accomplished and NOBODY can enjoy anything unless we win it all. Run the table and win the cup or the season’s a bust, that’s what your TMSF thinks.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17882
    #1894977

    </quote>
    Everyone was ecstatic when we signed both of the top coveted FAs to long term deals that they would have gotten pretty much anywhere else. They actually turned down more money elsewhere to sign here.
    The thing that turned those contracts into instant concern was the NHL plugging in the cap recapture penalty the following year which made those contracts nearly impossible to buy out or really penalize the team in the waning years of the contract.

    This is everything, hard to believe the NHL could retro-actively put in that rule AFTER the deals were already signed, but it is what it is, maybe they warned teams not to do those types of contracts (basically circumventing the cap process) and the Wild said “buzz off”… The Wild had to make a huge splash in FA that year, they recently lost Gaborik for nothing and needed star power to keep the ticket sales rolling…as you mentioned, others teams were offering more so that was the going contract at the time so I don’t fault them at all…just sucks that we have to be one of the few poster boys for the Cap Recapture penalty…

    basseyes
    Posts: 2513
    #1894980

    The ATMSF’s, A Typical Minnesota Sports Fan, aka the home town Homer’s, like Sid Hartman, can’t seem to accept RS has a role on this team at all, and not all of it’s unicorns, rainbows and butterflies. It’s a cumulative, compounding issue, that players like RS are part of the problem, as well as the gm issues. Have no problem blaming the gm or owner, but the players need to take some responsibility too. Sidestepping the players role, is like parents who think their kids can do no wrong. Usually those kids are the biggest spoiled brats around.

    I’ll concede RS is probably not as bad as I think he is, but he’s definitely not as good as people think he is either.

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5805
    #1894994

    To me, a ‘typical Minnesota sports fan’ is someone who staunchly defends a hometown team no matter the circumstances.

    And this is a TOTALLY different situation than the Gophers. The Gophers have been a DOORMAT my entire lifetime. They had a great season but even more so it’s about what direction the program is headed. The right direction.

    Contrast that to the Wild, who have underachieved at almost every opportunity. Most recently brought in the best coach money could buy, and they still can’t put it together. Years and years of mediocrity even with the owner willing to spend. Excuse after excuse. No puck luck. Some other goalie got hot in the playoffs. Sure, the GM has a large chunk of blame. But so do the players especially when you can watch their lethargic attitude and play. State of Hockey………

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25026
    #1895008

    I don’t know what you guys want from Suter. His ice time now is a statistical tie with Spurgeon and Dumba. The TOI is a non factor at this point. Unless of course you think Dumba and Spurgeon demand more ice time.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11654
    #1895058

    To me, a ‘typical Minnesota sports fan’ is someone who staunchly defends a hometown team no matter the circumstances.
    And this is a TOTALLY different situation than the Gophers. The Gophers have been a DOORMAT my entire lifetime. They had a great season but even more so it’s about what direction the program is headed. The right direction.

    Contrast that to the Wild, who have underachieved at almost every opportunity. Most recently brought in the best coach money could buy, and they still can’t put it together. Years and years of mediocrity even with the owner willing to spend. Excuse after excuse. No puck luck. Some other goalie got hot in the playoffs. Sure, the GM has a large chunk of blame. But so do the players especially when you can watch their lethargic attitude and play. State of Hockey………

    Rather than define what the TMSF is, you’ve stated almost exactly what the TMSF is NOT.

    The TMSF Manifesto:

    1. The TMSF loathes the hometown team. Until, of course, they win it all, then the TMSF loved them all along. Until then NOTHING is good enough for the TMSF, because everything is a failure unless the team wins it ALL.

    Win a tight game? Fail! They lost to that team last month. Make it to the playoffs? FAIL! They didn’t win the Cup. Sign the big free agent. FAIL. He wasn’t “good enough”, he got overpaid, he had a bad attitude, he didn’t hold his mouth right during faceoffs, etc.

    2. The TMSF loves to complain about “underachieving”. Underachieving, of course, can only be defined as “not winning it all”. Because nothing else counts as a “real” achievement to the self-loathing TMSF.

    Well, let’s take a look at the Wild and this “underachieving” myth. The Wild, before last season, made the playoffs 6 years running, which in those years automatically puts them in the TOP half of the league. 6 years of running playoff appearances makes the Wild second only to Detroit in the last quarter-century as far as consecutive playoff appearances, I believe. But this is “underachieving” to the TMSF.

    But wait, there are more holes to poke in the “underachieving” myth. The Wild have produced this record with NO top 3 or even top 5 draft picks in a coon’s age. IF of course, the Wild even HAD an R1 pick at all in a given year, which due to terrible GM mismanagement, we did often didn’t. The Wild also have ZERO players who could be considered anywhere near the superstar status. In fact, if you think the Wild have has any player who qualifies for even MINOR star status since Gaborik or Burns departed, I’d love to hear who it is.

    All the while, this “underachieving” Wild franchise that the TMSFers love to complain about have made the playoffs over and over again while teams like Edmonton who are loaded with #1 OA and top 3 OA picks sat on barstools and watched the playoff games.

    In fact, by any measure, the Wild have overachieved. The problem is that in hockey the league rewards failure in order to encourage parity, so the Wild have suffered not from underachieving, but from overachieving and failing to follow the “suck your way to success” formula that worked so well for teams like the Blackhawks.

    3. “Yeah, but… the Wild always lose in the first round. So they suck.”

    See points 1 and 2 above. Hmmmm, losing in Round 1. Let’s see, who do we know who lost in R1 last year? Oh yes, the Caps and the Bolts, two teams absolutely loaded with superstar power. The two best teams in the freaking league. And yet the TMSF prattles on about the little ol’ Wild being underachievers…

    The Gophers were the victims of the TMSFers who wanted to make the whole season about the last 3 games. See point #1. The TMSF, instead of praising the success and the change in direction of the team, says it’s just more of the same because the Gophers lost when it counted so where’s the success? The whole Gopher season to the TMSF is a failure.

    Also, as an observation, the TMSFs seem to go to very few actual games or ever attend an open practice despite their claims to be able to sense things like “bad attitudes” and “locker room cancers”. It must somehow resonate through the TV.

    Grouse

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1895081

    How often does Suter really get skated around? Seriously. A couple times here and there. It happens to every player. This complaint is just someone with an axe to grind and wanting to sound like they know something. He is one of the best, most efficient and powerful skaters one the ice. His positioning is too notch. And his ability to possess the puck is also top end.

    By the way, what is TMSF? I looked it up, but I don’t think we’re saying “too many smiley faces”.

    No axe to grind and I’ve never thought I am a great hockey mind. Just thought someone would’ve been able to give me a better answer than the cliche he’s the best skater in the world line. In my previous post I actually said I didn’t mind his tenure here up until the last two seasons. I have to disagree with about his puck handling. Especially when it comes to passing. Every other pass is in someone’s skates. All you have to do to see that is actually watch the game.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1895082

    Well said grouse! Now do the twins!

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11654
    #1895088

    Well said grouse! Now do the twins!

    There’s nothing to “do” that is any different. The TMSF Manifesto knows no boundaries.

    All the self-loathing, all the “no achievement unless we win it all”, all the complaints about underachieving (despite the cheapest ownership in baseball), all the hate heaped on players that dare to rise above their station by “earning too much”, it’s all covered by the Manifesto. And the TMSF’ers have laid it all on the Twins too.

    You want TMSF scorn? Oh how they hated Mauer. And probably even worse was the hate heaped on Morneau, the guy gets his brains scrambled, never recovers, and the TMSFs STILL pour on the hate. Now that’s a special flavor of TMSF bitter!

    Grouse

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1895095

    I think you guys are forgetting about the TTMSFE, you know who I’m talking about, the:

    Typical ‘Typical Minnesota Sports Fan’ Explainer, who often times deep down really wants to be a TMSF.

    basseyes
    Posts: 2513
    #1895100

    Al Franken should bring back his SNL character Stuart Smalley for all us TMSF’s with some daily affirmations. He could encourage us that mediocrity is ok.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1895113

    The difference is that some of us buy the ticket for the entertainment value but to the TMSF, by buying a ticket, you think you’re entitled to a cup.

    biggill
    East Bethel, MN
    Posts: 11321
    #1895123

    Lou is commentary tonight. Now if they could just bounce LaPanta out of the press box and I’d be a lot happier.

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1895128

    Lou is commentary tonight. Now if they could just bounce LaPanta out of the press box and I’d be a lot happier.

    Completely agree.

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5805
    #1895149

    I think you guys are forgetting about the TTMSFE, you know who I’m talking about, the:

    Typical ‘Typical Minnesota Sports Fan’ Explainer, who often times deep down really wants to be a TMSF.

    Oh man… that’s some funny stuff there Phil! waytogo

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5805
    #1895150

    Lou is commentary tonight. Now if they could just bounce LaPanta out of the press box and I’d be a lot happier.

    Why? Is LaPanta a cancer?

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11654
    #1895158

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
    Lou is commentary tonight. Now if they could just bounce LaPanta out of the press box and I’d be a lot happier.

    Why? Is LaPanta a cancer?

    No, he’s overpaid and hogs mic time.

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