MN Permit to Carry Ruling

The 2nd Amendment has been infringed upon already… it’s like eating an elephant… you nibble at it, one bite at a time.

monticatgeek wrote:

wouldn’t the solution be that permit holders just start to open carry since that is legal under your carry permit and open carrying is not considered brandishing

This is correct. My story on this one. I got my permit on the first wave of applicants. I had all the training completed and submitted my paperwork on the first day it was possible to apply. Back then, they didn’t mail the permit to you. (At least not in Ramsey County) I got a letter telling me I needed to meet with the Sherrif to pick up my permit. At that meeting the Sherrif pretty much gave me a lecture on proper storage of my hand guns. Then asked – “Got any questions” I asked how should I be carrying? Concealed or open? He didn’t hesitate on the answer as he is tapping his hand on his holster. “Carry just like this in a holster on your belt” I smiled and said ok. He gave me my permit and I walked on out of there!

I open carry on occasion. Never had a problem. I think more people should.

-J.

Lots of horror stories of open carry and “concerned citizens” calling the police because some crazy is displaying a gun.. and then uninformed police, approaching you and treating you like you just robbed the bank.

My buddy open carries all day long. What a easy target to take out if one were looking for trouble. I prefer concealed and not to draw attention. Only rime I open carry is in the woods

Jimmy Jones wrote:

Since all this CC garbola started up years ago, hopw many of all you holders have actually been in a situation where you needed the pistola to protect yourself? If you think you need the cc, follow the rules. It’s really simple.

Its far better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Bearcat89 wrote:

My buddy open carries all day long. What a easy target to take out if one were looking for trouble. I prefer concealed and not to draw attention. Only rime I open carry is in the woods

I’m 100% with bearcat on this one. No way am I going to open carry. That’s a element of surprise I want on my side if ever needed.

Jon Jordan wrote:

He didn’t hesitate on the answer as he is tapping his hand on his holster. “Carry just like this in a holster on your belt” I smiled and said ok. He gave me my permit and I walked on out of there!

Jon – I hate to say this because I have a ton of respect for all law enforcement. But I’d say that Sherrif is a idiot. Big difference between a person who would already be thought to be armed ( Law enforcement in uniform ) that from a average citizen with a carry permit. If you or others want to open carry and help a criminal identify the 1st person to take out, by all means do so. Not me. No way.

fishthumper wrote:

But I’d say that Sherrif is a idiot.

I suspect I may have been one of the first permits they were required to issue. Hence the face to face lecture. I would not expect the same answer today.

The legislature should step in and clarify the rule. Otherwise you force permit holders to resort to other actions like open carry to avoid breaking the new precedent.

If you are afraid to have your gun taken from you, carry two or three….

-J.

If you’re involved in any kind of altercation, no matter what the truth is, you can count on the DOJ trying to make an example out of you. The best gambit is to join one of these prepaid 2A attorney groups that have a lawyer somewhere within a couple of hours of your home. That way you’ll have a card with a phone number on it to get immediate help. That’s very cheap insurance against having your life ruined.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

Since all this CC garbola started up years ago, hopw many of all you holders have actually been in a situation where you needed the pistola to protect yourself? If you think you need the cc, follow the rules. It’s really simple.

That’s the issue.. rules being made to protect the criminal and to criminalize the victim. Welcome to Mn…. we give up precincts to satisfy the mob.

I don’t see it so much as a rule but rather a guideline to help protect those who think they need to carry a gun from doing something stupid.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

I don’t see it so much as a rule but rather a guideline to help protect those who think they need to carry a gun from doing something stupid.

.

I agree. And there are a lot of legal carriers out in this world that think they are the new John Wayne. 3 people in one of the classes we took were talking about all the scenarios they could pull a gun out and scare people away. We just shook our heads. Drawing your fire arm is the last thing you should be doing in most any scenario, especially if your only intent is to scare some one.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

I don’t see it so much as a rule but rather a guideline to help protect those who think they need to carry a gun from doing something stupid.

Again… in context, someone is threatening bodily harm to you or a family member and their first concern is the safety of the perp around you. Seems backwards to me, that’s all.

So I’ve had my CC permit since they first became available in Minnesota. Honestly I do not carry nor would I be likely to as I avoid situations like a plague. I got the permit for 2 basic reasons. 1. Because I can. My permit says to the state that I am taking advantage of my rights and I am in the statistic of permit holders, regardless. 2. The permit gives you the opportunity to purchase handguns without any background checks. If I see a gun and I like it, I can buy it without any further BS, and take it home with me. My only complaint is the state makes you retake everything, instead of a simple renewal process, maybe a simple background check prior to renewing. But again, the State of Minnesota always wants that money.

I hunt with a muzzle-loading in-line handgun and the only reason I’d want a permit might be to wear or carry it under the hunting coat if the weather is bad, but I holster it and the holster offers complete closure, so the permit idea is moot.

I’ve never even remotely found myself or family in need of a gun for protection in well over 70 years. I don’t find myself all bound up worrying about needing a gun for defense some day. I don’t give a rip if CC holders think they need the protection or if they have the card just to be able to buy guns.

Just like the original 2nd Amendment, the government will find reasons to “amend” your CC permissions somewhere down the road and there’ll be a flap over that, one that I don’t need in my life. Sooner or later there’ll be a situation arise that will involve a card carrier that will go south and then the government will be testing whether CC is such a great idea. Personally I know of a couple card holders that absolutely have no business having one. Also personally, I think he process for obtaining the card should be much more rigid and involve a subtantial waiting period along with zero permission for additional purchases beyond the gun to be carried. Want another one? Reapply and have a rock solid reason you need it.

Speaking of the Land of 10,000 fees… I tested & received my motorcycle endorsement when I was 17, in Paynesville Minnesota. And for the next 35+ years, paid the extra $3 to keep my endorsement. I moved to Maui in 2018 and received my Hawaii DL… they grandfathered my MN motorcycle endorsement on my new license. After moving back to Minnesota in 2019, I went to get my Mn License… I had to take the Drivers Test again, to receive my license.. GRRRRRR.. I waited in line for 2 hours to do this. After passing the test, I went to the DMV to get my Licensed. She asked if I wanted my Motorcycle endorsement still, it was $3.. of course I did. She went to enter it and had issues, she called the Sup over and she also had issues. She called the state and suddenly found out, they had changed the process… i would need to take the written test, to get it back. NO WAY was I waiting in the line for 2 hours again, so I do not have my MC endorsement anymore. They couldn’t believe this was the new law… I got my original endorsement in Minnesota and suddenly its void. Money hungry state… $17B surplus… gone. Your welcome Timmy, not getting my $3 anymore.

Sounds like some need to move to a country without a Constitution… This country wasn’t built on love and hugs.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

I’ve never even remotely found myself or family in need of a gun for protection in well over 70 years. I don’t find myself all bound up worrying about needing a gun for defense some day. I don’t give a rip if CC holders think they need the protection or if they have the card just to be able to buy guns.

Noted. Personally, I wish MN was constitutional carry. Criminals are already doing it.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

I’ve never even remotely found myself or family in need of a gun for protection in well over 70 years.

Congrats! However I can assure you with 100% certainty if your life is threatened by a criminal, you will change your mind on this.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

Want another one? Reapply and have a rock solid reason you need it.

This is the way the law was prior to must issue permit law. There were zero reasons the Sherriff ever saw a reason to issue a permit. Therefor no one ever got one. Forcing law abiding citizens to become criminals.

-J.

big_g wrote:

Sounds like some need to move to a country without a Constitution… This country wasn’t built on love and hugs.

No they would rather turn this country into one without one.

Jimmy Jones wrote:

I’ve never even remotely found myself or family in need of a gun for protection in well over 70 years.

There are new victims each day that went 70 years of their life without needing one either, Till they day they did and didn’t have one. I bet when they needed it they wish they had it.

David Anderson wrote:

2. The permit gives you the opportunity to purchase handguns without any background checks.

this is actually false even with having a permit you still need to have the NICS check run. there are some states that this is true in but not in Minnesota.

monticatgeek wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>David Anderson wrote:</div>
2. The permit gives you the opportunity to purchase handguns without any background checks.

this is actually false even with having a permit you still need to have the NICS check run. there are some states that this is true in but not in Minnesota.

Yup and even with the license I am put on hold for a day often. Even for long guns

Jon Jordan wrote:

This is the way the law was prior to must issue permit law. There were zero reasons the Sherriff ever saw a reason to issue a permit. Therefor no one ever got one. Forcing law abiding citizens to become criminals.

Depends where you lived and was arbitrary but there were 12,780 permits issued in 2002. Only 1,453 were issued in the 7 county metro.

Those were permits issued to people who needed one for work. Like security guards and armored truck drivers. Not regular citizens who wanted to carry for personal protection.

-J.

Reef W wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Jon Jordan wrote:</div>
This is the way the law was prior to must issue permit law. There were zero reasons the Sherriff ever saw a reason to issue a permit. Therefor no one ever got one. Forcing law abiding citizens to become criminals.

Depends where you lived and was arbitrary but there were 12,780 permits issued in 2002. Only 1,453 were issued in the 7 county metro.

It’s wild how much free time you have to cross reference and Google every post that some one says something about and try to prove them wrong. I wouldn’t have enough time nor care to do so.

Bearcat89 wrote:

It’s wild how much free time you have to cross reference and Google every post that some one says something about and try to prove them wrong. I wouldn’t have enough time nor care to do so.

Wasn’t trying to prove him wrong, it’s an interesting statistic that drove passage of the MPPA. The day the 2001 report was released, in 2002, they tried to move it forward in the Senate but it was blocked with a tied vote and didn’t pass until the following year. It had been worked on for about 7 years by the time it was passed.

Jon Jordan wrote:

Those were permits issued to people who needed one for work. Like security guards and armored truck drivers. Not regular citizens who wanted to carry for personal protection

I do think this is wrong, there aren’t significantly more security guards in outstate than in the metro. It showed that a non-discretionary method of issuing was needed to make it fair across the state.

The 2002 data report is here by the way, I can’t find the 2001 report anymore: https://www.leg.mn.gov/docs/2003/mandated/030143.pdf

IIRC those out state Sherriffs were issuing permits to family and friends and denying permits to regular citizens. I’ll bet you can google search news articles on that topic. It was a mess! And one of the big reasons there was a push for legal carry for everyone!

-J.

I was 50 years old when I got my permit to carry. I didn’t want one. Afterall I survived 50 years without needing one. But the FW wanted one. Mostly for show.

I’m not going to go into all the details, some may remember if when I posted.

Guy with a long criminal record gets in a chase with the Hudson WI police.
He gets away but they found a stolen pistol in the saddle bag of his motorcycle.
Next day, with warrant in had they go to arrest him.
Officer is shot in the arm and criminal hops into his SUV on another high speed chase.
Comes across bridge into MN and runs into a pole in front of the Bungalow Inn where we were just heading in the back door to.
Just about dusk when this guy is booking towards the river.
Something is in his hands but I couldn’t make it out. Turned out to be a .22 rifle.
He passed us, but never saw us. We were too close to the building.
If he would of seen us, I know things would of turned out differently.

SWAT was called in.
Screwed up an attempt to take a car from a couple that lived in the area.
At gun point push two parents into their garage where he planned on using them as hostages.

Dad grabs the gun. Criminal has a .45 in his pants while there still struggling. Dad gets shot in the buttocks, then holds the guy down until wife calls 911. When Dad gets of criminal, police immediately tase him.

Had he seen us leaving our truck, there is not doubt in my mind that I would of been looking at his barrel. Take my truck? No problem. I have insurance. Take hostages and hopefully there will me a moment I can put a 9mm in the back of your head.

Again, many people never need to use a fire extinguisher in there entire life. I’ve use one on two separate occasions and am very happy they were available.

From my narrow point of view, I’ll carry. What you do is totally up to you.

Brian Klawitter wrote:

Again, many people never need to use a fire extinguisher in there entire life. I’ve use one on two separate occasions and am very happy they were available.

Great comparison BK. Scary night it could have been for you and the wife. Glad he didn’t see you guys.