MN muskie opener

Saw a ton, only got 1 44″ though. Nice weekend all the same.

Really rough night on tonka. Not even a follow. Temps are already 61-62. I would imagine high 50s over night.

I muskie fished this morning for about 4 hours. Had 1 follow, caught 2 pike. Water temp was 63, east metro.

Muskie fishing has been mostly a disaster for this guy. Think I’ve gone 8 times since July totaling about 35 hours and I have one fish to show for my efforts.

Youre ahead of me. I probably have almost 30 outings and 0 in the bag for me. Probably 70-80 follows though. Buddy had 15 follows this AM and 3 eat.

Wow you ain’t kidding. That’s rough.

You guys fishing at night? Sometimes it’s the great equalizer.

I do some fishing at night. Hasn’t seem to make a difference for this guy this season. But other seasons it has.

I should say that I have hooked up with 3 other fish and they jumped, shook their head, and spit the hook. Not a lot I can do when a 3 or 4 foot fish wants to go airborne and shake free. I usually swear and look skyward for answers.

I did a handful of dog shift 9pm-1amish and had some activity but tough to tell how many fish you contact without being able to see follows.

Saw one nice one last night throwing a tube. If my flat tire gets fixed today I should be out again tonight and tomorrow morning. Temps dropped a lot. Saw 56 degrees.

I put in 5 hours today with a friend and it was a total bust. Ripped oversized plastics without so much as even a sighting or follow. Water temp was 52 degrees.

Frustrating season to say the least. I muskie fished about 40 hours since July and boated one fish. I’d try a couple more times if I was able to, but I have to get ready for hunting season.

Got out one last time. Water temps were 49. Super slow saw one real big follow and that was it.

I realize muskie season is over in both MN & WI. This article was in the star tribune yesterday about the use of FFS when muskie fishing.

Freeze-up was a couple of weeks away when Josh Stevenson and I launched his boat recently, looking for a muskie. Tricking one of these toothy behemoths into munching a lure or bait would, we knew, end our season on a happy note, with months of lake and river ice approaching.
Dressed more like deer hunters than anglers, Stevenson and I were as comfortable as we could be, given that a cloud hangs over the sport of muskie fishing these days, not only in Minnesota and Wisconsin, but throughout the U.S. and Canada.
Or is muskie fishing even a sport anymore?
“If you’re using your knowledge of muskies and understanding of their behavior in different lakes and rivers at different times of the season, and applying that knowledge in your pursuit of muskies, there’s no greater challenge in all of fishing,’’ Stevenson said. “But if you’re just driving around a lake, watching a video screen, or multiple video screens, until you see a muskie on one of the screens, and then you cast until that fish eats or seeks refuge in deeper water, well, that’s not fair to the fish, and it’s not a sport.’’
At issue is forward-facing sonar (FFS), a revolution in fishing technology that can locate fish up to 100 feet from a boat (or ice fishing hole).
I’m not alone in believing FFS could doom muskie fishing, and perhaps other types of fishing, especially crappie fishing. “Panfishing,” which includes crappie fishing, is Minnesota’s most popular type of angling, and FFS can exponentially increase crappie-catching rates, especially in winter.
But it’s muskies that are already suffering from the increasingly widespread use of FFS, turning the pursuit of these trophies from one that historically has required 10,000 casts to one, as Stevenson says, that requires only “10,000 cash.”
A muskie guide who also owns Blue Ribbon Bait in Oakdale, Stevenson is hesitant to speak out against FFS. He has friends and customers whose boats are outfitted with the gadgets, and his guiding livelihood depends on serving anglers who are willing to pursue muskies without the aid of FFS.
“ If anglers knew how much they are robbing themselves of potential knowledge about fishing by just watching a video screen, they might not do it,’’ he said.
Increasingly, others in the muskie business also are going public about concerns for the fishery. It’s true, they say, that most muskies are released after being caught. But so relatively few of these outsized fish inhabit Minnesota and Wisconsin lakes and rivers that their populations can’t withstand higher angler catch rates thanks to FFS.
Additionally, FFS contributes to more muskies being caught and retrieved from deep water, potentially increasing their chances of dying after release.
“I don’t think the muskie fishery can be sustained the way things are going,” said Brad Hoppe of Parkers Prairie, Minn., a semi-retired muskie guide who with his wife, Carrie, owns Musky Mayhem, a leading muskie tackle innovator and manufacturer.
FFS has its place, Hoppe said, and can help anglers refine casts and retrieval speeds of specific lures, so the lures can be deployed as intended.
“But muskie stocking in Minnesota has seen a downturn, which is affecting muskie fishing here,” he said. “Add to that the more often these fish are being touched due to the higher catch rates resulting from forward-facing sonar, and the more mortality there is.”
Two developments compound FFS’ negative effect on muskies.
One is that muskie fishing in Mille Lacs is far less productive now than in the 1990s. Hugely popular among muskie anglers of that era, the slump prompted a dispersal of perhaps thousands of muskie anglers to other Minnesota and Wisconsin lakes, increasing pressure on muskies in those waters.
Another is social media’s effect on fishing.
“A lot of inflated egos exist in the muskie world,” said Scott Kieper, a former teacher who has guided full-time for muskies in the Hayward, Wis., area for 25 years. “Their egos puts a forward-facing sonar unit on the bow of their boats and another unit on each side their boats. Then when they catch a muskie, they post it online. I don’t use FFS and I never will. To me, it’s a video game. That’s all it is.”
Like Stevenson, Kieper believes it’s important to teach clients not only about muskie fishing, but about muskie conservation.
“When you teach a person about muskies and how to fish for them, and particularly how to handle and release them when you catch them, you’re promoting the sport of fishing,’’ he said. “When you teach them how to turn on a machine and drive around a lake looking for fish, you teach them nothing.”
Given a choice between guides who use FFS and ask clients to cast only when a fish is located on a screen, and guides who ask clients to repeatedly cast to places where muskies might lurk, some anglers opt for the former easier option, further causing a rift among guides.
“I learned to fish muskies in Detroit Lakes,” said Ryan Crosby, a muskie guide who now lives in Fall Creek, Wis. “As recently as a couple of years ago I wanted to be someone in the muskie fishing industry. But what it’s coming to, I want no part of. Using FFS is cheating, pure and simple. Yes, it’s a struggle to cast 10,000 times or whatever it takes to catch a muskie. But that’s what’s rewarding, the hunt.”
The fishing industry’s influence with policymakers likely means FFS won’t be outlawed by natural resources agencies. The growing popularity of FFS among everyday anglers also argues against a ban.
Yet some restrictions have been made. The Professional Musky Tournament Trail last year banned FFS from its competitions. Various bass fishing organizations this year will restrict boats to a single FFS unit, rather than the multiple units some contestants were deploying. And the national headquarters of Muskies Inc., addressing FFS use, urges anglers “to use common sense, be responsible, and apply the spirit of fair chase when fishing.”
And yet … more fish-finding gadgets are on the way.
Already, anglers can link augmented reality glasses to their FFS machines so fish locations can be projected directly onto their glasses.
And perhaps some day soon, tiny camera-carrying submarines will be developed so anglers can find muskies and other fish from the comfort of their cabin porches.
Already, drones are legal for some types of fishing in Florida.
Stevenson and I had no muskies to show for our efforts at the end of our recent outing. Still, we had a good day of fishing.
Said Stevenson: “If forward-facing sonar isn’t where we draw the line to save muskie fishing, and perhaps all of fishing, where is the line?”

Reads like an anti-technology manifesto.

BrianF wrote:

Reads like an anti-technology manifesto.

That’s what I thought too. I do agree with the part where he says if you just stare at a screen all day you are really missing out on learning however.

Of note, all of the recent state muskie records (and the most recent IGFA one) were all taken using this technology.

Stevenson, one of the guides mentioned in the article, is the current state record holder of the tiger muskie. He caught it on Lake Elmo using “traditional” fishing methods quite a while ago.

It may sound that way, but there is a lot of technology not allowed in hunting because of “fair chase.” I think that fair chase is the point of the article and will continue to be part of this conversation.

BrianF wrote:

“A lot of inflated egos exist in the muskie world,” said Scott Kieper, a former teacher who has guided full-time for muskies in the Hayward, Wis., area for 25 years. “Their egos puts a forward-facing sonar unit on the bow of their boats and another unit on each side their boats. Then when they catch a muskie, they post it online. I don’t use FFS and I never will. To me, it’s a video game. That’s all it is.”

OMG Has there ever been a more ironic quote

This whole article is so painful, I was ready for the satire disclaimer at any minute. Reading it made me want to put my phone in a blender

Also to be clear, I do not fish muskies with FFS

gim wrote:

Of note, all of the recent state muskie records (and the most recent IGFA one) were all taken using this technology.

The record has been broke many times on Mille lacs by people not using FFS but they weren’t kept so they weren’t in the record books. The recent record was only kept because it died on the angler according to his story.

Point being, ffs has little to do with the Muskie records because most anglers (with or without ffs) aren’t going to kill the fish. So IMO state record Muskies really don’t apply to the ffs debate.

People may be more apt to keep a tiger since they don’t spawn. Tiger record has also been crushed on the St. Louis but fish wasn’t kept because it was too short and not legal to be bonked.

The guide angle is interesting. Pretty sure the market will clearly choose between paying a guide big money to cast all day and rarely catch anything, or a guide that drives you around all day and cast a few dozen times at specific targets…

Maybe people should point out the big changes to stocking. With more Muskies would ffs even be an issue?? Muskie fishing in MN was on a downward trend before ffs came to the scene due to stocking. Now ffs seems like the easy scapegoat everyone wants to talk about. FWIW I do not fish Muskies with ffs.

One is that muskie fishing in Mille Lacs is far less productive now than in the 1990s. Hugely popular among muskie anglers of that era, the slump prompted a dispersal of perhaps thousands of muskie anglers to other Minnesota and Wisconsin lakes, increasing pressure on muskies in those waters.

Anybody care to guess why this happened? When you reduce stocking by about 95% the fishing success is going to change.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

Anybody care to guess why this happened? When you reduce stocking by about 95% the fishing success is going to change.

The musky fishery in MN definitely dropped off in the early to mid 2000’s as they reduced stocking.

Your biggest issue with this is higher mortality. I think 10% is whats normally thrown out there for c&r fish. More fish caught is more fish dying. If stocking is dropping it turns into less fish. The good news is it seems like a lot of more dedicated guys are burning out. after the second or third weekend after musky opener I saw a lot less guys out.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

The record has been broke many times on Mille lacs by people not using FFS but they weren’t kept so they weren’t in the record books. The recent record was only kept because it died on the angler according to his story.

Point being, ffs has little to do with the Muskie records because most anglers (with or without ffs) aren’t going to kill the fish. So IMO state record Muskies really don’t apply to the ffs debate.

Its not a record until its certified as one. I could say I have a dozen of them if I wanted to but until its documented properly and certified by the state, its nothing but a tall tail.

You don’t have to kill the fish to receive a record. C & R length state record has been around for pure strain muskie, lake sturgeon, catfish, and northern pike for years now. More have been added recently too.

You do have to kill it to receive the weight state record though.

The part about muskie stocking is completely true. The data proves it.

gim wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>FinnyDinDin wrote:</div>
The record has been broke many times on Mille lacs by people not using FFS but they weren’t kept so they weren’t in the record books. The recent record was only kept because it died on the angler according to his story.

Point being, ffs has little to do with the Muskie records because most anglers (with or without ffs) aren’t going to kill the fish. So IMO state record Muskies really don’t apply to the ffs debate.

Its not a record until its certified as one. I could say I have a dozen of them if I wanted to but until its documented properly and certified by the state, its nothing but a tall tail.

You don’t have to kill the fish to receive a record. C & R length state record has been around for pure strain muskie, lake sturgeon, catfish, and northern pike for years now. More have been added recently too.

You do have to kill it to receive the weight state record though.

The part about muskie stocking is completely true. The data proves it.

Length and width makes it pretty clear if a Muskie would break a record. You’re clearly naive if you aren’t aware of all the record breaking fish that have been let go on Mille lacs. Pictures of length, girth and weight scales tell the story. If you want to call it a tall tail fine, stick your head in the sand a little more.

The length c&r length record is pointless with Muskies. A fat 45 incher can weigh more than a skinny 55. Until a 60 incher is caught, no one in the know cares that much about a length record.

Point being, bringing up the fact that the recent record was caught with a ffs is meaningless to the ffs debate. No body cares.

I actually like the C&R Length record because it allows the angler to release the fish fully alive and potentially grow bigger. The standard weight version requires killing the fish.

I didn’t write the article, I only posted it because the Star Tribune has a paywall. So I copied and pasted the whole thing for people to read.

Gim, you repeatedly bring up the Muskie record in ffs debates like it has some bearing on the discussion. IMO it does not which is why I pointed that out. Maybe it does to you but to those aware of all the record breaking weight fish released it is kind of meaning less. There have been fish released that were bigger than the current record that was recently killed. If you actually care about Muskie records (majority don’t) I would think you’d find those fish interesting. Pretty good video documentation on some of them. Check em out and decide for yourself if they are just ‘tall tales’.

It is pretty clear that ffs in musky fishing is a superior tactic versus doing it “old school.” From what I’ve heard in the musky tournament circuit, a guy showed up with screens and transducers all over his boat and won dang near every derby that year. They then outlawed the use of ffs in that musky circuit.

Tommy wrote:

Saw a ton, only got 1 44″ though. Nice weekend all the same.

Buddy, you’ve got the best profile pic I’ve ever seen! Love that pooch!

crawdaddy wrote:

It is pretty clear that ffs in musky fishing is a superior tactic versus doing it “old school.” From what I’ve heard in the musky tournament circuit, a guy showed up with screens and transducers all over his boat and won dang near every derby that year. They then outlawed the use of ffs in that musky circuit.

You heard wrong. They won one tournament and blew everyone out of the water and they were banned shortly after. I don’t really care what the pro tourneys do. Just pointing out the false hearsay.

Ffs can be deadly in certain scenarios, certain times of year and/or on certain bodies of water. But sometimes it is not the best method. If FFS was still allowed there would still be tons of tourneys won by those not using it.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

You heard wrong. They won one tournament and blew everyone out of the water and they were banned shortly after.

That’s correct. That individual did have his boat equipped with a number of livescope transducers and the strategy was to scan water until they found a fish, and then pester it with varying lures until it bit. It was during an event in Northern Wicsonsin. I have spoken with the individual’s friend on the subject who regularly fishes one of them. He was also trash talking to other anglers about it the night before at the bar which did not sit very well with some.

The PMTT banned the use of it after that event which I thought was a knee jerk reaction. They should not be making alterations to the rule midseason. Better to re-visit it during the offseason.

They are allowed to use them during pre fishing. Transducers have to be removed during tournament hours. The individuals who won that specific event no longer fish the circuit. They don’t like the idea of having to muskie fish without the aid of livescope.