MN-fish Conference – FFS was a hot topic

You’ll also have to smoke a macanudo.

These guys (obviously not all of them) are hunting basin fish that they would never in a 100 years locate without FFS. They are jerking them out of deep water for no other reason than to pound their chest and say look at me, the greatest Muskie hunter of all time. Sorry EPG, you’ll never change my mind on this one.

And Gene on Mille lacs will troll for them at 5 miles an hour and real them in at that speed out in the basin. What’s worse?
I don’t see whats wrong with catching more fish. Isn’t that the point.

This is not directed at you Dutch just used your quote to make my point.

Pandora’s box has been opened with FFS I don’t think they are closing it anytime soon.

I wish every lake wasn’t completely mapped out and people had to find structure the old school way. Not turning back now FFS is probably in the same boat.

What’s really crazy is that FFS is relatively “new” still. We are still talking about its initial generations. The “smart” or “AI” component isn’t even a factor yet. With today’s devices, you still have to interpret the relative size of the fish, guess at the species based on what you’re seeing, and react to its mood while having first-hand knowledge of the lure you are throwing as far as diving depth, fall rate if power corking/drop shotting, etc.

We aren’t THAT far off from a live imaging component that interprets all that information for you. Think “2.5# SMB, 71.4′ from the boat at a heading of 112.4 degrees” with an indicator on the map/imaging circling what it is on a seperate screen and maybe even a suggested lure. Mass produced and shared algorithms for suggested areas to go “scan” or check “live” on major lakes could easily be a factor too.

Fishing is going to be significantly different for future generations. I don’t even want to think about what fishing/catching will be when my children are my age. I am going to enjoy fishing my way for now with current levels of technology, but with the full understanding that what is a hobby of mine now may very well be of no interest to me in the future.

Picking up my first LVS34 on Thursday. Anticipate it will change my tactics during the day, how and where I can hunt my fish. What it won’t do is change how many I keep, or whether I can enjoy night trolling with me and a beer or other in hand. It will stay in the truck when I really want to just enjoy some moon or sun. I see plenty of buddies doing well fishing, but not really out there to relax.

buckybadger wrote:

Fishing is going to be significantly different for future generations.

This probably won’t upload but I’m going to try…

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Dutchboy wrote:

They are jerking them out of deep water for no other reason than to pound their chest and say look at me, the greatest Muskie hunter of all time.

Aren’t muskie fishermen catching muskies just to pound their chest and say look at me? regardless of what sonar they use

mnfisherman18 wrote:

hearing stories about people catching 10+ muskies in a day using FFS to harass them in open water leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Does harass = catch ?? Are we not “harassing” every single fish we catch, or try to catch? Do I need to do an HR training session for this?

Ripjiggen wrote:

I don’t see whats wrong with catching more fish. Isn’t that the point.

This is what it boils down to for me, can’t get past it.

Also for all the “it’s not fun staring at a screen, I’d rather fish” posts – then don’t do it! I agree with you, not a fan of sharpshooting, so I don’t do it. But I also don’t think we should take it away from the guys that do like to use it.

I like the previous posts about water releases and barbless hooks for muskies. If the muskie guys are truly so concerned about the fish, that’s what they should be pushing

buckybadger wrote:

We aren’t THAT far off from a live imaging component that interprets all that information for you. Think “2.5# SMB, 71.4′ from the boat at a heading of 112.4 degrees” with an indicator on the map/imaging circling what it is on a seperate screen and maybe even a suggested lure. Mass produced and shared algorithms for suggested areas to go “scan” or check “live” on major lakes could easily be a factor too.

It’s all coming full circle

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I made an ice fishing computer game in high school in 1976. Used a teletype and called in to a main frame computer in Mpls. What a blast. We’ve come a long way since then.

lindyrig79 wrote:

FFS has a different meaning in my book. How about you actually go fishing and not stare at a screen all day. FFS.

AMEN- watching my son’s friend on rainy last year sit and stare at a screen all day. We caught more than he did. HOWEVER, to each his own. In my opinion I am already cheating w SI and DI so FFS is just one more way to make the sport less enjoyable FOR ME. You do you. I am out there for the sun, water and relaxation. A fish is just a bonus and I don’t eat them anyway.

Youbetcha wrote:

You know now that I think of it you could make some serious money selling waypoints. I know guys outwest will sell waypoints for Cams that have big bulls on them. You could do the same with livescope for muskies fairly easily. Go scan some basins get a solid group of waypoints and sell them for x amount per person.

Ice fishing guide I have been using out in Devils Lake has been selling waypoints for a good number of years. Does quite well with it. Sells different waypoint packages for different prices as well as yearly subscriptions.

Ice Cap wrote:

Ice fishing guide I have been using out in Devils Lake has been selling waypoints for a good number of years. Does quite well with it. Sells different waypoint packages for different prices as well as yearly subscriptions.

Not a bad way to make a little extra coin. Was joking with a buddy the next world record musky out of mille lacs will be a bought waypoint.

Matt Moen wrote:

I have a couple buddies who are religious about SI…will drive over spots for 20 minutes and not drop a line.

I resemble that statement! The guys I fish with don’t seem to mind. They get time to crack another beer and we have much better luck than just fishing blindly.

So was there any discussion as to what MNfISH is actually doing besides fund-raising?

“Aren’t muskie fishermen catching muskies just to pound their chest and say look at me? regardless of what sonar they use”

Sure maybe some people, but I would argue many enjoy the rush of seeing and catching such a large fish along with the challenge and comradery/memories it builds.

“Does harass = catch ?? Are we not “harassing” every single fish we catch, or try to catch? Do I need to do an HR training session for this?”

I guess it means a combination of things, in some cases its throwing your whole tackle box at a single fish you are following on radar, and yes sometimes it bites. That is the point of fishing, but when it gets to the point when its too easy/efficient for some anglers it ruins the experience for everyone.

“Also for all the “it’s not fun staring at a screen, I’d rather fish” posts – then don’t do it! I agree with you, not a fan of sharpshooting, so I don’t do it. But I also don’t think we should take it away from the guys that do like to use it.”

I disagree with this sentiment, its impacting our fisheries and other anglers enjoyment of the sport. Would you start to care when/if your catch rates start going down?

I disagree with this sentiment, it’s impacting our fisheries and other anglers enjoyment of the sport. Would you start to care when/if your catch rates start going down?

So has every new tech in the fishing industry.

In terms of the muskie angle, the lack of stocking over time has probably played a bigger role. The numbers of fish stocked have dropped significantly.

I don’t know what the solution is here. I’m not a big fan of people just turning competition into an arms race of technology and it feels like that’s what it’s come to now with the Bassmaster Classic being a very recent example.

But at the same time, you can’t really just undue it completely either. Clearly it’s a generational thing and older anglers have a tougher time learning than the younger tech savvy generation does.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

What’s the difference between you looking for fish on a screen or you look at your mapping or landmarks?

The difference is with FFS most people are looking at the screen the ENTIRE time they’re retrieving a cast.

To the ones that say people using FFS are basically “catching” have you ever actually used it?

It’s NOT that easy. You would be extremely surprised how many fish don’t bite let alone even interact with a bait.

“I disagree with this sentiment, it’s impacting our fisheries and other anglers enjoyment of the sport. Would you start to care when/if your catch rates start going down?”

How is it impacting our fisheries? Has there been a study proving out that it is?
How is it impacting other anglers enjoyment? I don’t own FFS but I can say, anyone that is using it they are not affecting my enjoyment at all. Why should I care what someone else is doing?

There is a lot of technology out there that can be associated with higher angler success, gps, you tube, imagery, cell phones, wheel houses, portables and the list goes on. Yet FFS is the one that certain anglers want to draw the line in the sand on.

There was no eveidence that smoking was detrimental to your health until there was. There was no eveidence that seat belts saved lives until there was. Is there anything that common sense tells us that people don’t need a study done to believe?

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize FFS is impacting muskie fishing negatively. Same goes for panfish on smaller lakes. So over time your average angler will be catching smaller and less fish thus impacting their enjoyment. Its so early that there has not been time to actually conduct long-term credible studies, but seeing and hearing countless stories about the negative impacts at least warrants a conversation.

Its obvious other technologies have impacted fishing, I don’t think theres a person here who would dispute that. I am not advocating for a blanket ban on FFS by any means, but the question is where do you draw the line? I don’t understand why people think we cant or shouldn’t even consider regulating it when other sports such as hunting have clearly demonstrated its possible.

Dutchboy wrote:

There was no eveidence that smoking was detrimental to your health until there was. There was no eveidence that seat belts saved lives until there was. Is there anything that common sense tells us that people don’t need a study done to believe?

My common sense tells me there are a lot of other factors that affect our fisheries more than forward facing sonar does.

I agree mnfisherman18. Good post.

Some tournament formats do have a blanket ban though. The PMTT does. They are permitted to use it pre-fishing but they cannot use them during tournament hours. This topic has come up here before too but that is the ruling they have stuck to for now.

I believe that MLF/BPT has certain periods when they fish in which they can and cannot use it this season.

I wonder if anyone is working on front facing thermal imaging that a guy can mount to the front of a SXS to pick out grouse as you drive down a trail. A limit is a limit ya know.

On a side note, every time I see FFS written I think of “for F sakes”

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Common sense also tells us catching fish in any manner has a negative impact on the fishery. Easy fix to that, right. Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon or a brain scientist to tell me the obvious answer is to simply ban hooks.

FFS makes it too easy to catch fish so we must ban it.

GPS shows me where the rock pile is where the fish are. Ban it

Newer boats handle big waves too well when my boat can’t. Ban it

High horse power motors are not needed when my 25hp gets me to the spot. They just get people to fish faster than me. Ban it

Spoons feed people food which makes them fat. Ban it

Guns… I leave it there

Everything is a tool and needs to be used with common sense. Crazy thought

At some point we should have a discussion around people acting like sportsman and using proper handling, targeting, and C&R practices. I’m sure a decent portion of people complaining about FFS are also the people that have overlimits of fish in their freezer.

Also, I’d argue that software like OnX Fish which compiles lake survey data and uses AI to allow a person to search for trophy crappie (or any species) lakes is a bigger determinant to fish populations. Hardly ever hear anyone complaining about that.

blackbay wrote:

I wonder if anyone is working on front facing thermal imaging that a guy can mount to the front of a SXS to pick out grouse as you drive down a trail. A limit is a limit ya know.

On a side note, every time I see FFS written I think of “for F sakes”

Well maybe you could try lassoing that pheasant with a rope and then releasing them back into wild or shooting one with a home made bow and arrow vs blasting them with a semi auto shotgun from the front seat of your heated sxs that kills them dead and doesn’t really give them a chance.

See how it’s not exactly apples to apples.

Muskies are like 99% catch and release in Minnesota. I don’t have the exact figures on shoot and release for grouse, but I’m confident it’s less

blackbay wrote:

On a side note, every time I see FFS written I think of “for F sakes”

Lol same. Did Bman ever settle on the formal spelling for FFS?

My wife wanted to buy FFS for my birthday and I declined . Was honestly concerned I was going to catch less fish with it cause I’d be dicking around with it too much . The worst is the species – I’d be chasing a 8 lb drum on the river thinking it’s a 28 inch walleye . Ice is a different story .

I still like to argue I bet it’s 5 percent or less that actually use it to an advantage . I see hundreds of FFS poles on pool 4 … and they ain’t catching anymore than the next guy .

tswoboda wrote:

Muskies are like 99% catch and release in Minnesota. I don’t have the exact figures on shoot and release for grouse, but I’m confident it’s less

Eh, that’s about right for the ones I shoot at.