MN-fish Conference – FFS was a hot topic

The Muskie fisherman are not a fan.
Below were some suggestions on FFS.
There is a good article in the Strib.
BTW – if you want a good laugh read some of the comments at the end of the article.
You can tell by the comments who is from the people from the city.

Limit fishing boats to a single forward-facing sonar unit.
Ban the equipment from fishing tournaments.
Require users to complete certified training on how to use the technology responsibly.
Cut fish bag limits in half for anglers who deploy forward-facing sonar.
Ban the equipment from certain “sonar-free” lakes.
Ban the use of forward-facing sonar from night fishing.
Disallow forward-facing sonar on muskie lakes between June 1 and July 4.

I think a lot of it stems from a guide on leech last year that had a couple double digit musky days during the time females are usually out deep recovering from spawn.

Jeff Sundin runs a website with some write ups on the MN Fisheries Summit Report and the MN Fish gathering a few days prior.

https://fishrapper.com/

Only idea I agree with is banning it in tournaments. That should be about the skill of the angler to read a lake and current conditions to put fish in the boat. Yes I know it’s just a tool to help catch fish but I think it would help make the tournaments more of a challenge and the good fisherman would find a way to win. The one about a training course is just bs and won’t change anybody’s habits.

I couldn’t care less about how each tournament (for any species) handles FFS. Using it in an efficent way where you aren’t wasting time is just as much a skill as casting or retreiving a lure is. They’re both skills…just completely different ones. It’s up to those tournaments to define what angler skills they want to award with a trophy/payout/etc.

My only issue relates to bag limits. Those limits are set in-place, and if the MNDNR believes that they are assigned in a way that the system can safely handle MORE anglers taking their full bag limit as technology advances…then so be it. If there’s doubt about whether or not a system can handle the increased success (more anglers taking their full bag limit) then changes need to be made.

I don’t think enforcing different regulations on a case by case basis whether or not a particular angler has the technology in their boat is very practical for COs.

The Muskie fisherman raising concern are those that have not embraced FFS. The few diehard muskie fisherman I know of or talk with all use FFS. They are all catch and release guys.

I know of a few walleye and bass fisherman who would not cry over a few less muskies.

I would say FFS is more of an issue (if it is an issue) on species of fish that are caught, kept, and consumed.

I don’t own any live imaging, but I can tell you from watching guys I know that do have it, it’s not as easy as the pros make it look to master. That being said, the panfish and muskie are the fish that need to be protected from FFS. Banning the tech isn’t going to change anything. Lower limits statewide and you won’t have so many fish being kept by guys that can pluck them from schools on live imaging.

I am not a tournament guy and have no interest in watching it on TV. I do talk with several guys though that are into this kind of thing and have been for decades.

If you want to ban FFS, then how about banning scouting with FFS, pre-fishing and scouting/pre-fishing by tournament entrants’ friends and employees.

Plenty of bigger name tournament guys in MN have scouts on lakes patterning fish long before they show up in their boat.

buckybadger wrote:

I couldn’t care less about how each tournament (for any species) handles FFS. Using it in an efficent way where you aren’t wasting time is just as much a skill as casting or retreiving a lure is. They’re both skills…just completely different ones. It’s up to those tournaments to define what angler skills they want to award with a trophy/payout/etc.

My only issue relates to bag limits. Those limits are set in-place, and if the MNDNR believes that they are assigned in a way that the system can safely handle MORE anglers taking their full bag limit as technology advances…then so be it. If there’s doubt about whether or not a system can handle the increased success (more anglers taking their full bag limit) then changes need to be made.

I don’t think enforcing different regulations on a case by case basis whether or not a particular angler has the technology in their boat is very practical for COs.

^^^THIS^^^^^ Your limits your limit. If they feel like FFS could damage a fishery, change the limit. There is zero chance any new laws would/could be enforced. Hell, the MNDNR can’t keep up with the 456 page rule book we have now.

You know now that I think of it you could make some serious money selling waypoints. I know guys outwest will sell waypoints for Cams that have big bulls on them. You could do the same with livescope for muskies fairly easily. Go scan some basins get a solid group of waypoints and sell them for x amount per person.

No one talks about the elephant in the room. We know it increases finding fish and doing better if used right. Not all experience that. You still have to work to get them, they don’t jump in the boat with it. We look at it as a threat to fish, but no one talks about guides. They make one, two, or even three trips a day fishing from lakes and their job is to get people to fish. They have a huge impact on fish more than the average guy fishing. They have the technology and they use it well. Just a little thought.

Conservation and smart fishing are key.

Youbetcha wrote:

You know now that I think of it you could make some serious money selling waypoints. I know guys outwest will sell waypoints for Cams that have big bulls on them. You could do the same with livescope for muskies fairly easily. Go scan some basins get a solid group of waypoints and sell them for x amount per person.

That’s part of the reason more and more western states are banning cams on public land. 2 of the states (Az and Utah) with the biggest bulls have already banned or severely restricted the use of cameras.

As for FFS I agree with Bucky 100%.
I know guys complain about it’s boring watching guys stair at a screen.
Well it’s just as boring to me watching guys pound the bank. To each their own. But I think it should be up to the tournaments to ban it if that is what they want to do. Not a the state doing it.

Lower the limit on muskies? It’s already essentially zero. The muskie guys are flirting with the Mille Lacs/hooking mortality/fishing ban zone

If the concern is the impact on populations of fish, reduce limits.

If catch and release mortality is an issue, change how that’s done. Where I do the majority of my fishing each summer, if a fish is going to be released, it can not be removed from the water. Several studies have been done on its efficacy. So much better than improper handling on top of the time a fish is out of the water for a glory photo.

If y’all really want to urine people off how about all sonar needs to be registered with the DNR like drones with the FFA. Sales tax and registration goes towards fish conservation instead of the general fund. No reg sticker you get a ticket. You can then use this to control the guides usage as well. Yay gubment controls.

Mortality issues?
Make barbless hooks mandatory.

Running a few errands and listening to KFAN … commercials so punching buttons and by chance stumbled onto a Leach Lake fishing guide talking to the WCCO radio guy about FFS and the issues. It was a good conversation.

They want to run a study on muskie hooking mortality in the summer … DNR is supportive, but would need funding …

FFS has a different meaning in my book. How about you actually go fishing and not stare at a screen all day. FFS.

lindyrig79 wrote:

FFS has a different meaning in my book. How about you actually go fishing and not stare at a screen all day. FFS.

This is where I’m at with FFS. I never use my Garmin on open water. It’s great on ice but the last thing I wanna do on the boat is stare at a screen. I probably only brought it on half my ice trips this year.

I see so many guys motoring around just staring at a screen…takes the joy out of being outside and enjoying the time on the water.

I find it laughable that the holier than thou Muskie guys who preach, preach, preach fishing temps, release tools & safe handling of their precious fish are running around with FFS to catch a Muskie. Talk about hypocritical. At least the panfish & Bass guys make no pretense of what they’re up to.

Totally disagree.
You, the Captain are looking at the screen while others are watching the view.
What’s the difference between you looking for fish on a screen or you look at your mapping or landmarks?
With adding FFS you may have a better chance at putting the people in the boat on fish.

Brittman wrote:

They want to run a study on muskie hooking mortality in the summer … DNR is supportive, but would need funding …

I heard the same interview. The guy said MNFish would fund the Study.

Lowering the limits will hurt the guys without FFS more than anyone that does use it. The guy that releases 30 fish a day doesn’t compare to someone that might release 5 fish a day in a total kill rate.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Totally disagree.
You, the Captain are looking at the screen while others are watching the view.
What’s the difference between you looking for fish on a screen or you look at your mapping or landmarks?
With adding FFS you may have a better chance at putting the people in the boat on fish.

I’ve had it for 5 years and I find myself using it less and less. If being on the boat is just about catching fish then you’re probably right. But, I catch plenty of fish without it and enjoy my time much more.

I have a couple buddies who are religious about SI…will drive over spots for 20 minutes and not drop a line. That drives me nuts. I’d rather be fishing.

To each their own though.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Totally disagree.
You, the Captain are looking at the screen while others are watching the view.
What’s the difference between you looking for fish on a screen or you look at your mapping or landmarks?
With adding FFS you may have a better chance at putting the people in the boat on fish.

These guys (obviously not all of them) are hunting basin fish that they would never in a 100 years locate without FFS. They are jerking them out of deep water for no other reason than to pound their chest and say look at me, the greatest Muskie hunter of all time. Sorry EPG, you’ll never change my mind on this one.

I have a couple buddies who are religious about SI…will drive over spots for 20 minutes and not drop a line. That drives me nuts. I’d rather be fishing.

To each their own though.
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Solidified my point.
There is a distinct difference between fishing and catching.

The biggest difference is….if you can’t find them you have zero chance of catching them. FFS takes that zero away and puts a number there, no matter how small the number it’s greater than zero.

Lowering the bag limits (which I support) wont fully solve/address the issue. The article was mostly focused on muskie fishing. I have mixed thoughts on the topic, but hearing stories about people catching 10+ muskies in a day using FFS to harass them in open water leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Even with perfect handing techniques a fish or 2 probably dies in that scenario, and the guys doing that are generally the ones taking pictures and measuring every fish.

I am not sure how to fix it, but it does not seem sporting to me. One thing I would add is this is no longer a “watch your own bobber” situation, as the actions of a few can have material impacts on a fishery (and other anglers success, or lack there of). The hooking mortality issues are obvious, but everyone knows highly pressured fish are tougher to catch.

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Solidified my point.
There is a distinct difference between fishing and catching.
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Will you take me “catching?” You can drive and stare at the livescope with a corona in hand and I can hammer the fish?

Solidified my point.
There is a distinct difference between fishing and catching.
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What is it ?