MN DNR is concerned

http://www.kare11.com/life/outdoors/dnr-concerned-over-drop-in-fishing-and-hunting/269712705

“The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is addressing the drop in license sales and participation…”

They need to develop apps and websites that let people share photos and earn rewards for catch and release. I know it sounds basic and silly, but I think it might help.

Either that or incorporate Pokemon Go some how.

Possible reasons IMHO…….

Total cost for a family to go fishing compared to 60 & 70’s…

Massive amounts of regulations compared to 60 & 70’s…

The strong emphasis on C&R compared to 60 & 70’s…

All the issues at the landings with AIS…

From strictly a sales point of view, the DNR and the regulations in todays Minnesota world would be better named the “Anti-sales department” for MN. IMHO

Yes MN were nothing is allowed!! SO many rules etc new anglers overwhelmed with rules that differ from every other state. look how long it took to get quick strike rigs legal etc,Automatic tip up illegal yet down rigger which is the same thing legal. Nonsense. Hunting as well plus hard to keep new hunter interested when they see no deer in 4 or 5 days hunting. Or watch empty skies will learning to duck hunt. Watching the Doves leave the state 2 weeks before opener. Abundant teal no season to harvest them while they are here. On and on outdoor writers that say you should relish being able to just be out watching an empty slough. Well newcomers want to shoot there guns etc.

Mwal

Then consider how many areas have more dogs than deer and that those areas are expanding. Also consider the lame 4 point rules in all of zone 3.

The dnr could start soliciting new comers with much lower license costs right along side of those who buy annually and have forever. If they think this will short change the dnr coffers then they can begin to cut jobs that are not essential…..start with ais people and then hire big game specialists who are from Minnesota and understand Minnesota dynamics and get rid of a couple of the high dollar idiots currently employed by the dnr.

As much as I’d like to blame all of this crap on the dnr I do know that they have hands tied by our state government’s lawmakers and special interest groups with hands full of shiny trinkets. Nothing can be done that these idiots have to get their two worthless cents in. I don’t give a crap which side of the aisle anyone is votes on, we have too many old minds in Minnesota’s lawmaking body and its time that some of the high and mighty that prefer to cater to special interest groups get replaced with more forward thinking persons.

The old saying of “don’t bite the hand that feeds ya” comes to mind here. This state’s mindless and greedy lawmakers and dnr shortsightedness have brought this current decline on all by their lonesome. If there are concerns perhaps they should all sit down and take a serious look at how they have treated anglers and hunters who have faithfully bought licenses over a lifetime as a whole and then spend some serious time thinking about who in their right mind would want to pay high costs for licensing to wade into this quagmire. The answer sit in the voting booth.

we come up from the quad cities to fish the rainy/lotw and the guff we get from CO’s is pretty awful. We used to bring 12 people up. now its 4. its not always but for a few years it was constant i wouldnt’ say harrassment but it was pretty annoying for some guys who just want to get away and fish. checking our licenses EVERY day…the same guy. it was pretty ridiculous. all the rules and stuff. the ais stuff is just getting crazy.

I understand the need for regulation but seriously.

How much of the numbers are older generations not participating anymore, and how much is it the newer generations just finding other forms of entertainment?

hnd wrote:

we come up from the quad cities to fish the rainy/lotw and the guff we get from CO’s is pretty awful. We used to bring 12 people up. now its 4. its not always but for a few years it was constant i wouldnt’ say harrassment but it was pretty annoying for some guys who just want to get away and fish. checking our licenses EVERY day…the same guy. it was pretty ridiculous. all the rules and stuff. the ais stuff is just getting crazy.

I understand the need for regulation but seriously.

I agree with you 100% This is obviously not the only issue at hand here, but could be a factor. I deal with this garbage on Rainy Lake every day. You’ve got the Sheriff out there, the Park Service guys, the Border Patrol, The Coast Guard, etc… Not that you need to worry about it as long as you are in compliance with the rules. It sure does seem like they are just looking for a reason to tag you. Takes the enjoyment factor of this wonderful place down a notch. It has to be intimidating for those visitors that are not used to it.

nhamm wrote:

How much of the numbers are older generations not participating anymore, and how much is it the newer generations just finding other forms of entertainment?

Yep and yup. There’s enough blame going around directed at the DNR for just about everything wrong, but the reality is that that are so many different and advanced forms of entertainment and recreation than there was a generation ago. When I was growing up, summers were spent riding bikes to the lake to fish, or going to a nearby park to hit fly balls (yes baseball) and other outdoor activities. There was nothing on TV to watch and we certainly did not have all the today’s gadgets and what not to keep us entertained. Our world and society is far different than it was back then.

What I did find amusing though was that the DNR is planning yet another conference (with panel of experts) for 2 days that should take care of the problem.

Walleyestudent Andy Cox wrote:

What I did find amusing though was that the DNR is planning yet another conference (with panel of experts) for 2 days that should take care of the problem.

What the dnr needs is to leisten to those who spend the greatest amount of time on the water and in the field. These text book idiots who are book smart and brain dead just waste time and money….which equates to sustaining the problems that bring them together in the first place. I’d be willing to bet that 100 outdoorsmen/women over the age of 60 could offer more insight into the problems this state has with declining license sales that all of the dnr/legislature combined and could offer fixes that would not only help improve the areas mentioned but also make the experiences for young entry level persons a whole lot more enjoyable. The real experts are those who have spent their time on the water and in the field pursuing the game and fish, not some bunch of self-proclaimed experts who often have personal interests attached to their ideologies.

We need to clean several slates in this state beginning with those who for two years in a row and 3 out of 4 years failed to pass a balanced budget just because of political affiliation. Start new and put people in office who have a positive attitude about sustaining the outdoor sports in this state by utilizing the best suited group to make recommendations….those 60 and up who have a solid history of license buying and have been afield to see first hand what and how things are like. While we are slate cleaning we also need to get legislation passed that keeps all special interest groups out of law making decision making. We need legislation to have all bills introduced to stand on their own merit and this state needs to start standing up for the people who support it, not a few select who have casinos. We certainly do not need politicians setting rules for the sportsmen in this state. Most of these political yahoos do not buy a fishing or game license in their entire tenure.

You can blame the rules all you want… but this is a national trend not just a Minnesota trend. The rules are, for the most part, there because the majority of participants cannot self regulate. There are dozens of threads, not posts, threads on this very site requesting tighter regulations for walleyes, panfish, etc… but there are too many rules?

License sales are down but every year it seems I see more and more ice fishermen.

My take on the too many rules comment, is more towards all the boating hoops they want people to jump through to keep evasive species from being spread from lake to lake in some fantasy land that DNR seems to be living in. Rather than slot limits and specific fish regulations.

youngfry wrote:

You can blame the rules all you want… but this is a national trend not just a Minnesota trend. The rules are, for the most part, there because the majority of participants cannot self regulate. There are dozens of threads, not posts, threads on this very site requesting tighter regulations for walleyes, panfish, etc… but there are too many rules?

youngfry wrote:

You can blame the rules all you want… but this is a national trend not just a Minnesota trend. The rules are, for the most part, there because the majority of participants cannot self regulate. There are dozens of threads, not posts, threads on this very site requesting tighter regulations for walleyes, panfish, etc… but there are too many rules?

I agree, MN is not alone. I think this is much more of a shift in society/generations rather than rules and regulations. I believe costs also have an effect as well. Not necessarily cost for licenses and such, but equipment. If you were new to fishing and visited this site or others, you’d get the impression you need a big fancy boat/ice house, latest and greatest electronics, custom rods, etc.

Two things greatly impact the decline imo. The first is the Regs, go look at your hunting and fishing reg’s. Combined there have to be over 300 pages for an outdoorsmen to “know”. Seems like every week on here there is another reg being debated for what it really means. My wife didn’t hunt or fish ever prior to our dating, now that she comes on a few trips we spend a good 1/2 an hour of me explaining why we can or can’t catch this or fish like that. No average joe would decide to start off on his/her own with that amount of laws hanging over their head.
Second is the game management. Overall I think the DNR does a pretty good job. However, I grew up a duck hunter, and spent a great deal of time and money every fall in the slough. It has been 10 years since I have gone duck hunting now, due to the numbers of birds. Similarly we had a big group of guys (about 30) that used to deer hunt Northwest MN every year. After years of 5 tag/person intensive harvest (and despite our telling the DNR the herd is getting decimated) there were hardly any deer there any longer. This group then went their separate ways, and I would guess about 15 of the 30 still go deer hunting in the fall.
Both of these greatly impact new hunter recruitment imo. No one is going to start hunting/fishing on a whim on their own (esp w/ the regs). And there are now less and less parents recruiting their kids onto the field or lake due to the fewer opportunities for success.

Wow, Are there that many people checking licenses up north?

I haven’t had my license checked or otherwise had a C.O. or any other Law Enforcement stop and check me for anything while Hunting or Fishing in over 30 years. Mainly Fishing Metro Lakes, but annual trips into Northern MN on some of the lakes/areas mentioned and never checked. Oh, I am out usually at least once a week or more during open water season.

As far as License Sales/Prices, $36.00 for a Husband/Wife combo I cannot see breaking the bank. Most years I am buying an out of state for Wisconsin or out of Country for Ontario, Canada too, is cost that big of a factor?, Personally I don’t think so.

Would a Family License be an option at a lower price but only allowing say 2-limits for the whole family at a discounted price? How about a 4-day or 8-day license for Non-Residents?, would that be an option? I think they could make it easier and allow Digital Licenses held on your cell phone. I buy my license online, so why not allow a digital copy on my phone or attached to my drivers license?

I agree with many comments that the myriad of various regulations, slot limits, etc. cause more confusion than anything.

If you’re having trouble with the AIS Inspectors, Are the Inspectors giving you hassle State, County or Lake Association Employees? They should have I.D. listing their name and employer as required by law. If you are getting hassled, What are the Reasons they give for the stop/questions? If you feel you’re being treated unfairly, ask for their supervisors name and phone number?, or Call the MnDNR or local C.O. if you have their number and discuss issues. I have not had any trouble or hassles with an Inspector for 5-years when One thought he could step up on my fender to open my livewell. I immediately asked him to get down as I am not going to be liable if he slips and gets hurt. I told him by LAW, he cannot get on my equipment or open anything on my boat without my permission. He backed off, then I told him my livewell is disconnected an only used for dry storage.

If they are from the Lake Association, I’ve heard many of these people get arrogant thinking they own the Lake. Many are Volunteers and unless Authorized by the MnDNR and Local Agency have no real authority except to call the C.O. or Sheriff if you have a violation.

When loading at the end of the day, I tie down the boat, then remove the plug and pull out my $1.00 grabber (30″ light plastic) tool and check for weeds on the boat and trailer. That alone shuts them up pretty quick, showing I am doing what I can to clean my rig.

Best of luck ALL, read and know the Law is your best bet! Now it is the Law when you purchase your Minnesota Watercraft License or Non-Resident fishing License you are signing a statement that you know the A.I.S. Law and will follow it.

mplspug wrote:

They need to develop apps and websites that let people share photos and earn rewards for catch and release. I know it sounds basic and silly, but I think it might help.

Either that or incorporate Pokemon Go some how.

I think Pug is 100% correct on this… IMHO the largest difference is purely a shift from an outdoors society to a much more urban/computer driven society. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_United_States) Between the 60’s and today the change an additional 10-20% of people live in metro areas. Video games didn’t even exist in the 60-70’s which I think more than anything is what keeps kids indoors more than ever in the past. The best way to connect with and get kids involved will be to do it on their terms which, exactly like pug said, is to come up with more online/social media/computer friendly ways for their participation.

youngfry wrote:

You can blame the rules all you want… but this is a national trend not just a Minnesota trend. The rules are, for the most part, there because the majority of participants cannot self regulate. There are dozens of threads, not posts, threads on this very site requesting tighter regulations for walleyes, panfish, etc… but there are too many rules?

You are right about the trends across the country, nobody is arguing that. But here in Minnesota we need to clean house on some of the un-necessary and worthless regulations that have been thrust on us. These idiotic pressure washer stations and half-a$$ed personel manning them have got to go. If the same money was being spent by the Iowa dnr and achieving the same thing it is here, you’d be howling too. If Iowa mis-handled the deer herd like has been done in Minnesota, you’d be howling too. If you were told to grease up the one eye and bend over so a certain portion of the population could net your walleyes during the spawn, maybe you’d howl about that too.

You can bet that all these senseless game and fish regulations we are protesting here in this state will affect you if you come here to fish or hunt.

I also posted this on another fishing website. I think it is a multi faceted problem, less kids do outdoor stuff as a whole (they weren’t raised that way), aging demographics (the state’s age is getting older). The DNR has screwed up Lake Mille Lacs beyond belief and they feel they need to be involved in everything. Unfortunately the state has also made it where you almost have to have a lawyer on speed dial to understand ALL the friggin laws and regulations..oh and don’t forget about the “Weed and Invasive Species Police” and the “Lakeshore Association” people if you own a boat and don’t even think about having a beer in the boat…I feel this is a classic “I made the problem so let me fix the problem that I caused in the first place” stuff. In my opinion the state, DNR and Lake Shore Associations got greedy and have pretty much took all the fun out of fishing..I am a lifelong resident of Minnesota and a passionate fisherman, outdoorsman and spend a minimum of 6 hours a week fishing somewhere (usually in the metro somewhere) so I’ve seen a couple things in 50 years or so..I’m sure they will move on to other thing to wreck now that they’ve broken this toy….Just my 2 cents.

ROFLOL: After reading the short NEWS article I just had to laugh.

“In the 1960s and decades before, hunting and fishing was simply a part of people’s heritage, and it was a relatively low cost social activity that provided food for the table,” said Jeff Ledermann, angler recruitment, retention and education supervisor. “But times have changed.”

The numbers back him up: In the 1960s and 1970s about 40 percent of Minnesotans age 16 and older purchased a fishing license. That began to decline in the 1980s and today, just 27 percent of Minnesota residents age 16 and older fish and 12 percent hunt.

“Because hunting and fishing provide important social, economic and conservation benefits, many are concerned about the declines in participation,” Ledermann said. “That’s why we’re bringing experts and organizations together around boosting hunter and angler numbers.”

Really, they have someone paid with that job title?

OK, now let’s look at the previous comments and what else is going on in society today:

1) Hassles from Law Enforcement &/or A.I.S. Inspectors.
2) The Myriad of Regulations, Limits, Seasons, etc. confusing everyone.
3) Parents have children involved in many other activities along with an onslaught of digital/video gaming easily accessible. Many activities/sports have required attendance and weekend tournaments so families do go up north every other weekend.
4) We have many other social activities available for adults: Professional (Minnesota: Twins, Vikings, Wild, Timberwolves, Lynx, Swarm, Soccer) and Hometown or Church League Sports (Softball, Baseball, Hockey, Kickball, etc.) taking up time & money.
5) Many young people were never brought up with a parent/parents encouraging these activities. I work with a couple young guys (23-35 y.o.) that when I ask about their weekends and if they went out fishing/boating answered they never did as a kid and looked at it as a senseless activity. They would be amazed at photo’s of Fish I would show them I’ve caught, yet have no interest in going out and trying it.

I believe we as sportsmen & women, we need to involve our children, grand children, relatives and neighbors in these activities. I have a neighbor whom recently moved into the neighborhood with a 8 y.o. boy. The boy stopped and talked to me one day while I was getting the boat ready to head to a tournament the next day. He was very interested in fishing and so I told him I’ll talk with his dad and invite them some evening or weekend for some fun fishing. I have enough gear to supply them for a 3-4 hour trip.

When it comes to Christmas time with all the organizations asking for toy donations, I donate half a dozen rod & reel fishing combos with a small selection of panfish gear to “Toys for Tots”. My local Sporting Goods shop gives me a nice discount when they know why I want all this gear. The get it off the shelves in late fall and it goes to a great cause. I’ve included copies of the Twin Cities Fishing Pier Map from the MnDNR along with a Regulations book.

Put a WiFi Hotspot on every lake….and give every kid that goes fishing a new Galaxy X smartphone with unlimited data and an app for something senseless. You’ll have 99% success rate and no fish will be harmed

I believe a major part of the reason for declining youth participation is organized youth activities, especially sports. If little Johnny wants to have a chance to play on the high school baseball team then he has to start young and be on the youth travelling team which entails practicing five evenings a weeks with out-of-town tournaments several weekends a summer. Want to go fishing Saturday morning… can’t because practice is at 11:00 or there’s a tournament in Mankato. Now if the parents have two or three kids, someone is always running somebody somewhere. There’s no time to go fishing or hunting. Swim practice, dance, hockey, etc. It has nothing to do with the DNR.

I know youth activities are the reason my family and I don’t fish or hunt nearly as much as I’d like and I know it’s true for other families too. I know we don’t have to sign the kids up for these activities but yet we want them to be able to participate too. It just seems like youth sports are just way too competitive and such an early age and requirement way too much time commitment. It wasn’t like that when I was a kid in my hometown.

Boone

Fishing and Hunting tends to be a rural activity. One thing to think about is the estimated Mn population in 1970 was 3.8 million. Today it’s closer to 5.5 million. How much more lakeshore development and habitat partitioning has happened since 1970? In 1970 there may have been a chance you grew up on a farm. Dad probably did & Grandpa almost certainly did. Today there’s a good chance Grandpa grew up in the suburbs that was partitioned into a housing development Great Grandpa use to hunt.

I think what you’re seeing is societal changes due to a growing urban population shifting from the family farm to the informational age.

tegg wrote:

Fishing and Hunting tends to be a rural activity. One thing to think about is the estimated Mn population in 1970 was 3.8 million. Today it’s closer to 5.5 million. How much more lakeshore development and habitat partitioning has happened since 1970? In 1970 there may have been a chance you grew up on a farm. Dad probably did & Grandpa almost certainly did. Today there’s a good chance Grandpa grew up in the suburbs that was partitioned into a housing development Great Grandpa use to hunt.

I think what you’re seeing is societal changes due to a growing urban population shifting from the family farm to the informational age.

This too is a great perspective and one that has some worthwhile play in this dynamic too. Boone’s comments on sports has merit as well.

94 eastbound is easier than driving north. A lot of us only get one day a week to fish and the train won’t take us there. Also you can buy beer on Sunday and not worry about getting caught in a protest march.

They are using percentage of population. I ran the numbers and there are more now than ever before which is probably what we all expected. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing less.

tegg wrote:

Fishing and Hunting tends to be a rural activity. One thing to think about is the estimated Mn population in 1970 was 3.8 million. Today it’s closer to 5.5 million. How much more lakeshore development and habitat partitioning has happened since 1970? In 1970 there may have been a chance you grew up on a farm. Dad probably did & Grandpa almost certainly did. Today there’s a good chance Grandpa grew up in the suburbs that was partitioned into a housing development Great Grandpa use to hunt.

I think what you’re seeing is societal changes due to a growing urban population shifting from the family farm to the informational age.

Great post. I agree.

Plus the it doesn’t help that 100% of the news publicity the DNR gets is about how bad the situation is on Mille lacs. Doom and gloom won’t sell licenses.

boone wrote:

I believe a major part of the reason for declining youth participation is organized youth activities, especially sports. If little Johnny wants to have a chance to play on the high school baseball team then he has to start young and be on the youth travelling team which entails practicing five evenings a weeks with out-of-town tournaments several weekends a summer. Want to go fishing Saturday morning… can’t because practice is at 11:00 or there’s a tournament in Mankato. Now if the parents have two or three kids, someone is always running somebody somewhere. There’s no time to go fishing or hunting. Swim practice, dance, hockey, etc. It has nothing to do with the DNR.

Boone

Well said

tegg wrote:

Fishing and Hunting tends to be a rural activity. One thing to think about is the estimated Mn population in 1970 was 3.8 million. Today it’s closer to 5.5 million. How much more lakeshore development and habitat partitioning has happened since 1970? In 1970 there may have been a chance you grew up on a farm. Dad probably did & Grandpa almost certainly did. Today there’s a good chance Grandpa grew up in the suburbs that was partitioned into a housing development Great Grandpa use to hunt.

I think what you’re seeing is societal changes due to a growing urban population shifting from the family farm to the informational age.

I think this post is spot on too

As much as I dislike all the AIS rules I don’t think people have quite fishing because of it.

By all means Tom, howl away. And believe me… people are howling down here about the way the DNR handles… well everything. Nothing is handled “correctly” to the masses. While I agree certain situations can be handled better… I believe on a more general level that things are handled pretty well. I just don’t feel regulation, management decisions, etc have much impact on people thinking about getting into the outdoors. Those things are polarizing for the percentage of people that are informed (misinformed?) about such things. Most of the newcomers that I know just happily go along with the existing regs because they don’t know any different. I’ve never heard anyone new to the outdoors complain about too many regs or mismanagement or anything like that…. regardless if it is true or not… simply out of ignorance.

Bigwerm brings up an interesting point about duck hunting… and as a fellow duck hunter… its a real problem. But the shift in migration patterns is as complicated or more so than the ML fishery. These are migrants of 1,000s of miles and there is very little the MN or Iowa DNR can do individually to impact where those ducks are choosing to migrate. I think it has more to do with habitat, food availability, and hunting pressure. Advances in technology (not just for duck hunting) and a huge increase in education has made today’s hunters and fisherman far more effective on average than 50 years ago… so less hunters/fisherman does not necessarily mean less harvest. It DOES however mean less revenue for regulatory services… which compounds the problem.

So, Tom, and others that feel strongly that regulation is a large part of the problem… I don’t necessarily think that organizations like the DNR are blameless in all of this, but I think there is a lot more to it than that.