MN deer harvest

buckybadger wrote:

If me getting my nephew up out of bed on a Saturday morning at 5:00am, having him dress for frost, hike a 1/3 of a mile through the woods in the dark quietly, then sit silently in a tree for a few hours watching the sun rise is somehow ruining him or society…all because it’s a few weeks earlier than a grown man gets to do it with an opportunity for harvest……….than I fully admit I am the problem with modern society and youth today Add me to the list of scapegoats for some people.

Just my $.02

Just like me you are entitled to your opinion.

” If me getting my nephew up out of bed on a Saturday morning at 5:00am, having him dress for frost, hike a 1/3 of a mile through the woods in the dark quietly, then sit silently in a tree for a few hours watching the sun rise ”

Nothing you said here could not be done in a few weeks when the regular season opens. My question for you is why do you see a need to do it in a special season ?

You are right. It will hopefully be done in a few weeks too if our schedules line up. I never once said it “needed” to be done in a special season. I will take advantage of the opportunity and support those who do.

I want to maximize memories, opportunities, and positive experiences for a child while having absolutely no impact on anyone else. We hunt on my land and are more selective about what we would harvest than most adults.

fishthumper wrote:

Nothing you said here could not be done in a few weeks when the regular season opens. My question for you is why do you see a need to do it in a special season ?

Weather is a big difference. It was 9° before sunrise on opener of gun season last year where I was. That’s a pretty miserable experience for a kid. Hell, it was miserable for me and I was wearing all my expensive stuff that I can get because I’m not going to grow out of it next year.

People bitch about the youth duck season to. Boo who. Sure its people without kids or dont take theirs cause their dads wouldnt have taken them. Let them have an opportunity only young once.

gimruis wrote:

I have some die hard compound archery hunters who were dead hell against the idea of the general population using a crossbow during the “archery” season too,

Just like when MN finally got a muzzy season and everyone pissed and moaned that new muzzleloaders werent fair.

Hopefully youth hunters are continuing to participate beyond the designated early season. I don’t know if there is a statistic to track that but if they keep hunting, then the retention factor seems to be working. If not, then the goal of long term hunter retention is failing.

Bearcat’s son seems to have taken to hunting pretty well, both regular season and youth seasons. I’m not sure we can just use his as a good example though as he and his son definitely seem to be more dedicated than the average “bear.”

JEREMY wrote:

People bitch about the youth duck season to. Boo who. ^^^ Sure its people without kids or dont take theirs cause their dads wouldnt have taken them. Let them have an opportunity only young once.

Several of the groups of hunters who I know that are not in favor of the youth seasons all have their own kids and do more with them than most parents do. They also had dads who took them when they were young. In fact several of them still hunt with their elderly parents. Like I said, Ive got nothing against parents wanting to take their kids hunting. In fact I’m in favor of it. I just don’t see the need for a special season for it.

Reef W wrote:

Weather is a big difference. It was 9° before sunrise on opener of gun season last year where I was. That’s a pretty miserable experience for a kid.

I started when I was 12 and was told to sit in an uncomfortable wooden stand when it was cold out, waiting for a deer that never came, for hours on end. It was awful. I wondered why any poor soul would want to do it.

Not sure why I kept hunting after the first couple years of that but its not a good way to teach a kid to learn how to enjoy it, that’s for darn sure. I’m quite surprised I kept going after those first few miserable seasons.

I can definitely see the weather being a factor here.

fishthumper wrote:

I just don’t see the need for a special season for it.

I bet you love the special CnR bass season in the spring tho. I generally agree with you in that I wish the DNR would try and have some goal of simplifying seasons/regs.

But the youth deer hunt is good for a number of reasons. It’s attempting to grow a weak demographic in license sales (young people), which funds our outdoors. It allows more guidance and bonding among mentors (Parent, uncle, etc.) sitting with the kid, as opposed to throwing them in the regular season where the Mentor just drops the kid at a stand and says don’t get down until you shoot something or 10 am. The weather factor. And it’s always over MEA break, so instead of sitting home watching YouTube, kids are out hunting. There’s plenty of special seasons to get upset at, but youth ain’t it imo.

I do think the one thing the kids coming into the sport will have is less pressured public. 5-10 years from now a lot of guys will age out and not many are replacing. I have noticed that a ton with late season. Not many of those folks can handle the below 0 weather. The other thing they will miss is over the counter non resident tags. Those are slowly going away.

Youbetcha wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
I know several serious deer parties that are not real big fans of either the youth or early anterless seasons. I always find this odd as all the parties have a fair # of youths in them and they like to harvest a few Doe’s to have in the freezer. I think their main reasoning is they feel like those early season mess up the hunting some for the normal season. What are all of your thoughts on the 2 early seasons?

I think its a good opportunity for youth. As far as it ruining gun season I think guys like to find anything to blame but themselves for not being successful. I can get into plenty of deer pretty easily on public in the heart of gun pressure.

Agree. Crappy hunters blame every one but them selves.

fishthumper wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>JEREMY wrote:</div>
People bitch about the youth duck season to. Boo who. ^^^ Sure its people without kids or dont take theirs cause their dads wouldnt have taken them. Let them have an opportunity only young once.

Several of the groups of hunters who I know that are not in favor of the youth seasons all have their own kids and do more with them than most parents do. They also had dads who took them when they were young. In fact several of them still hunt with their elderly parents. Like I said, Ive got nothing against parents wanting to take their kids hunting. In fact I’m in favor of it. I just don’t see the need for a special season for it.

Tell those guys they don’t have to be in favor of the season. It isn’t for them

Youbetcha wrote:

5-10 years from now a lot of guys will age out and not many are replacing

I’ve personally seen this with my own traditional up north deer camp over the years. The older folks stopped going or died, and we didn’t replace very many of them. And the newer ones that did start going were not dedicated at all.

Hopefully the goal of long-term hunter retention is taking hold here. We probably won’t know the answer to that for many years.

I don’t really care either way, but I survived without a “youth” season growing up.
Also, if you think hunting pressure doesn’t effect deer and deer movement you’re nuts, especially mature bucks.
I know two guys who are very accomplished deer hunters who only target mature bucks. Neither of them would even consider allowing youth hunters in their spots. Both guys will be taking youth hunters out this weekend, just not anywhere near where they themselves hunt.

I have been trying to find deer population numbers throughout the years and can’t seem to do it.
They estimate the numbers at around 1 million today.
I remember back when I was in high school. Late 80’s early 90’s. The population was around 850,000 deer.

I did find this article pretty interesting.

https://mndeerhunters.com/about-mdha/news/88-from-whitetales/144-100-years-of-hunting-minnesota-whitetails

grubson wrote:

I don’t really care either way, but I survived without a “youth” season growing up.
Also, if you think hunting pressure doesn’t effect deer and deer movement you’re nuts, especially mature bucks.
I know two guys who are very accomplished deer hunters who only target mature bucks. Neither of them would even consider allowing youth hunters in their spots. Both guys will be taking youth hunters out this weekend, just not anywhere near where they themselves hunt.

Well of course pressure is a big deal always will be. But if you are not actively trying to hunt that deer early via archery and you only gun hunt and it’s not private land then there is no say in the game. Now if it’s private land and you don’t want to have early hunters out there then that’s more power to ya. If it’s public and known then not much say that matters.

What the hell does it matter if there wasn’t this season when we were kids. There wasn’t early teal either but most of us joined in with out a complaint.

Ron, it matters because more people means more hunters, which means less game available for everyone. Add in new seasons and it just gets harder for the average Joea and his kids. Our population keeps rising but as far as I know, they aren’t making more land and habitat anymore.
I think good populations and good hunting experiences create more new hunters than extra seasons.
For the record I think the early teal season is totally unnecessary. I’d rather have the season go longer than start sooner. Mid October and we’re still covered in teal here in my area, if you can find a place that hasn’t been hunted yet…..

grubson wrote:

Also, if you think hunting pressure doesn’t effect deer and deer movement you’re nuts, especially mature bucks.

100% agree. If you are fine with the effects the early and youth hunts have on the regular season, then I say go for it. Its interesting that some of the people who I know who do the early season hunt, Don’t do so on their own private land, but instead hunt public land. This tells me something right there.
Once again if it helps getting and keeping more youth involved in the sport great. I’m just not sure how much it does so long term. I guess only time will tell if those introduced to the sport is special seasons continue to do so into the regular season or not.

Reef W wrote:

Weather is a big difference. It was 9° before sunrise on opener of gun season last year where I was.

Yep the POSSIBLY better weather is a factor. I remember opening deer openers when its been in the 60’s and others when its been well below 0. Then again I remember years by mid Oct. when the temps have been rather low and other years when they have been rather warm. Yes a better chance of better weather in Mid Oct. than early Nov. but no guarantee.

grubson wrote:

Ron, it matters because more people means more hunters, which means less game available for everyone. Add in new seasons and it just gets harder for the average Joea and his kids. Our population keeps rising but as far as I know, they aren’t making more land and habitat anymore.
I think good populations and good hunting experiences create more new hunters than extra seasons.
For the record I think the early teal season is totally unnecessary. I’d rather have the season go longer than start sooner. Mid October and we’re still covered in teal here in my area, if you can find a place that hasn’t been hunted yet…..

What about the fact that archery guys been going for well over a month before youth. Do the gun guys whine about that ?
Or is it just the 4 days the children get that ruins it for the gun guys

grubson wrote:

Ron, it matters because more people means more hunters, which means less game available for everyone. Add in new seasons and it just gets harder for the average Joea and his kids. Our population keeps rising but as far as I know, they aren’t making more land and habitat anymore.
I think good populations and good hunting experiences create more new hunters than extra seasons.
For the record I think the early teal season is totally unnecessary. I’d rather have the season go longer than start sooner. Mid October and we’re still covered in teal here in my area, if you can find a place that hasn’t been hunted yet…..

…but does it?

You can’t estimate deer/game populations and assume it automatically correlates to the number of hunters. I bet I see an average of 2-3 deer per sit for an entire season, but have had many years where I don’t harvest one by choice. I have many times made the choice to happily enjoy tag soup.

I look at the youth season as an opportunity to teach the younger generation in a favorable setting with less action in the woods. I don’t really think the youth season has a significant impact on populations. I’d add this to the list of scapegoat reasons why someone doesn’t have success “the darn youth hunt ruined everything”

grubson wrote:

Ron, it matters because more people means more hunters

But, it doesn’t. Firearm deer licenses peaked in 1992 at 443k and in 2023 there were 315k. Archery has picked up a bit but only added about 20k over that time frame.

Those guys not taking a youth to where the mature bucks is, isn’t because they don’t want the pressure. It’s most likely due to they want that buck themselves. Bumping that deer 1 time is to much. And to have a successful hunt on a mature buck is a totally different game then normal hunting. You would never hunt that land unless it was perfect weather wind moon ext….
Of course pressure changes deer movement. That should have been learned the first day before any hunt. The guys who whine about the youth season have no idea what it’s like hunting public land obviously because pressure out there is insane between small game, archery, pheasant, and so on. I still have to 2 shooter bucks I’m watching. But I can’t move Mason on to them until the right situation. And if we can’t make the stars align, it won’t be because the youth season.

I’ll bet that the hundreds of acres of public land here in Wabasha county ~4 miles from our land doesn’t have more than 2 vehicles parked at it on any given morning during the youth gun hunt. It’s not as if there are just lines of angry blaze orange little people scouring the woods and shooting all the deer.

buckybadger wrote:

I’ll bet that the hundreds of acres of public land here in Wabasha county ~4 miles from our land doesn’t have more than 2 vehicles parked at it on any given morning during the youth gun hunt. It’s not as if there are just lines of angry blaze orange little people scouring the woods and shooting all the deer.

Same with the 800 I hunt near home

Yes, I’d be willing to bet there are guys that only gun hunt that complain about archery hunters having the whole fall to hunt. I’m not one of them, but I’m sure it’s happening.
The fact is that the more opportunities to hunt will mean more game harvested. The more new seasons they open up, the more game will be harvested. At what point is it too much pressure? There’s a lot of variables here, I’m not saying you can’t get a big buck or fill your doe tags in the late season now that we have early seasons because obviously that’s not the case. The odds do go down though. So much of hunting (like fishing) is pure luck, there’s always a chance, regardless of pressure or population.
There’s enough deer (in farm country) to handle the extra harvest without a doubt. The extra pressure just puts more deer into nocturnal patterns or pushes them into properties that don’t get hunted, which could potentially hurt everyone throughout the remainder of the seasons.
Again, I’m not necessarily against the early doe season or the youth season. I am glad it’s not gonna effect the private property I hunt though.

Meh, to me these arguments against things like a youth waterfowl or deer season always come across as “that’s not how I did it so you can do it either.” I know for a fact that there were old timers back in the day arguing that scopes shouldn’t be allowed “because that’s not sportsman like and makes for a worse hunter.” But many of us would obviously still choose to use scopes on rifles.

I know when my girls are old enough you can bet your britches I’ll be taking them out during the early season, with the odds of success and better weather being in our favor.

buckybadger wrote:

I’ll bet that the hundreds of acres of public land here in Wabasha county ~4 miles from our land doesn’t have more than 2 vehicles parked at it on any given morning during the youth gun hunt. It’s not as if there are just lines of angry blaze orange little people scouring the woods and shooting all the deer.

I have friends who tried hunting public down there last year. The gave up after 3 days of having guys set up on top of them and the non stop “squirrel” hunters stomping through the woods all day. I’m sure they’re are lesser known places but overall those big public pieces down there are trampled by hunters from September through December.

The youth hunt i think is cool, get the kids a bonus opportunity to get on a deer. The early antlerless seems odd to me. I don’t get the reason. But I also don’t have the need or want to participate. I do think a gun hunter should be capable to shoot there doe during regular season. I think the bonus 4 days for kids is cool just to give them a extra opportunity

It’s not as if there are just lines of blaze orange little people scouring the woods and shooting all the deer.[/quote]

I dont know who armed the Oompa Loompas but it wont turn out good.