I-da-ho Elk

I don’t know enough about it to judge, I’ll leave it up to those who are supposed to know. Government intervention though sounds to me like a band-aid.

We’ve gotten crazy lately with our financial responsibility. The 10 o’clock news two nights ago opened with the bailout and President Bush on TV telling us it was necessary or our financial markets were doomed. 10 minutes later the same channel was talking about all the boutique hotels opening in downtown Mpls, with many of the rooms running upwards of $500 per night on up to $7000 per night.

Something’s really wrong with this picture.

ET

I know how to build a shelter in the woods.
I know how to catch and kill things.
I can cook what I catch and kill.

If worst comes to worse, I will be able to survive.

I am going fishing. I am not going to let this take over my life. I am not going to look at my 401k for months. I am not going to move stocks around. I am more than happy to let those much smarter than me lose the sleep over solving this. There are fish to catch, and deer to put in the freezer.

This is probably one of the most painful times in American history. But hey, the Twins are in first place today, and there are trophy walleye waiting to come visit Jon Jordan and I tonight on the Pond.
After work I am jumping into the gas guzzler and pointing it north.

I’m like you, give me a twins or vikes game. I don’t know enough to even try to make and educated opinion on this matter. DaveB must have an opinion, he’s a money guru.

The problem we have is summarized nicely by Mr. Ben Stein in this article here…

Credit Default Swaps

There is no reason at all why taxpayers should be responsible for this. Poorly run companies who’s executives lack the forsight to predict the burst of the largest most inflated housing bubble in history don’t “deserve” to stay in business, and should crumble as those before them have. Let the winds of capitilism blow true, only the strong survive.

And for heaven’s sake somebody shove a sock in Suze Orman’s mouth!!!!

just be happy, dont worry… and keep on doing what you do… I like that.. its the American way…. those who got us into this.. and hopefully back out… they dont think like that.. and maybe thats why I cant understand this….

I guess I’m neutral on this bail-out cause I don’t fully understand it. I do know that banks and financial institutions made some unsound decisions the last few years. I think that some CEO’s and CFO’s of these failed banks should be doing hard time behind bars for some of the stuff that has went on—but that’s just one redneck’s opinion

Thank you Bocephus. He sang it very well.

The preacher man says it’s the end of time
And the Mississippi River she’s a goin’ dry
The interest is up and the Stock Markets down
And you only get mugged
If you go down town

I live back in the woods, you see
A woman and the kids, and the dogs and me
I got a shotgun rifle and a 4-wheel drive
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

I can plow a field all day long
I can catch catfish from dusk till dawn
We make our own whiskey and our own smoke too
Ain’t too many things these ole boys can’t do
We grow good ole tomatoes and homemade wine
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Because you can’t starve us out
And you cant makes us run
Cause one-of- ‘em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn

We came from the West Virginia coalmines
And the Rocky Mountains and the and the western skies
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

I had a good friend in New York City
He never called me by my name, just hillbilly
My grandpa taught me how to live off the land
And his taught him to be a businessman
He used to send me pictures of the Broadway nights
And I’d send him some homemade wine

But he was killed by a man with a switchblade knife
For 43 dollars my friend lost his life
Id love to spit some beechnut in that dudes eyes
And shoot him with my old 45
Cause a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Cause you can’t starve us out and you can’t make us run
Cause one-of- ‘em old boys raisin ole shotgun
And we say grace and we say Ma’am
And if you ain’t into that we don’t give a damn

We’re from North California and south Alabam
And little towns all around this land
And we can skin a buck; we can run a trot-line
And a country boy can survive
Country folks can survive

Amen.

Please pass the shotgun. Dinner just ran across my back yard.

and Im makin some wine… and working on corn whiskey… getting ready to survive…

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and Im makin some wine… and working on corn whiskey… getting ready to survive…

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I’ll trade ya 3 squirrels, 2 rabbits and a venison roast for a jug of wine.

it is partially the governments fault too, seeing they are the ones that pushed these financial institutions to give loans to anyone that wanted it, so that “everyone could get a house”… well they told these companies they would back them up…and now is the time.

I say, let the companies fold, and the strong ones survive, our economy will be better off in the long run because of it!

These companies are not exactly getting bailed out, they are taking a beating. The CEOs are not getting off scott free-they are losing countless millions.

I work with all of this stuff and these securities. If done right, the Govt will make a killing on purchasing these assets.

The problem is that all of these companies were highly leverages. Meaning they used a dollar to buy $10 of assets. When the prices on those assets fall, instead of having $11 of assets and $10 of debt, they quickly had $9 of assets and $10 of debt. They raised $2 of capital earlier this year to get back to $11 asset $10 debt, but then the assets continued to fall.

The reason the prices are so artificially low right now is that there are just no buyers left. When all these companies try to delever themselves, they need to pump a ton of paper onto the market.

Good old supply and demand drives these prices WAY down to obscene levels. For example, many of these mortgage are trading at $.20-.$40. They are backed by REAL homes, not just paper. Even in a rough real estate market, how many homes wont sell for 1/5-1/2 of their appraised value? Not many. So, if you have time and money, these securities are worth a lot more than they Govt will be buying them for.

“All pigs are equal, some pigs are more equal than others.”
George Orwell.

I say no bailout. The only difference between now and 1929 is the windows don’t open on the banks anymore to jump out of.

thanks Dave… that all makes sense.. and is kind of what I was starting to think…
so.. why is it we have to act fast? they say toxic debt is clogging the market.. to me it sounded like they were going to use the goverment as a trash bin and just toss out the worst of the worst… the stuff that for sure was going to default.. making the goverment the owner of lots of houses… like you say. that is worth something.. and they maybe got them cheap?.. do they sell them? when they dump them on the market wont that hurt the market too?… but basically… if the govt acts fast.. it helps stop the death spiral at the bank level and frees up the credit markets… the 700 billion question is.. is 700 billion enough? Id heard there might be FAR more….

oh.. Tuck.. your deal sounds mighty fair… my wine is a bit raw right now… but once its bottled your free to drink it anytime.. it just gets better with age… just like us…

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And for heaven’s sake somebody shove a sock in Suze Orman’s mouth!!!!

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If we could only be so lucky!

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it is partially the governments fault too, seeing they are the ones that pushed these financial institutions to give loans to anyone that wanted it, so that “everyone could get a house”… well they told these companies they would back them up…and now is the time.

I say, let the companies fold, and the strong ones survive, our economy will be better off in the long run because of it!

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Actually, you have that backwards. Under the Clinton administration, the government let strict lending laws expire.

-J.

I don’t understand anything about the whole deal. Even after reading DaveB’s reply it makes little sense to this bum. What I do know is I have never been a big fan of “government fixes” and I suspect this one would be no different. Even if done “properly” and the government made a killing what benefit would we, Joe Publis, see? Zero as usual. Our taxes would not decrease and our 401K will not increase as a result of the bail out.

I’m in the same oat as the other guys. I know how to catch fish, kill animals, cook, sew, and build stuff. I have plenty of guns and even more ammo. I will not starve to death and will be able to feed my family and kids.

But you know what? At the end of the day this debacle will have little to no impact on 90% of us ordinary folk. My old truck will be no less rusty next year than this and my freezer will have plenty of animals chilling.

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I know how to build a shelter in the woods.
I know how to catch and kill things.
I can cook what I catch and kill.

If worst comes to worse, I will be able to survive.

If we are going to leave the decisions to ” those who are smarter than us ” and go fishing or watch the Twins. I sure hope we can all ( Quote from above ) because it may not be long before we will need to !!!!!

Seriously about all we can do is be more fiscally responsible. Nothing else we can do. We are not going to go to Washington and make any impact what so ever and I don’t believe we’ll be able to elect anyone with the ability to change government, if it is their fault. So I guess the options left are be more responsible with out money and learn to survive if worse came to worse.

At some point the market needs to correct itself. Let it!

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it is partially the governments fault too, seeing they are the ones that pushed these financial institutions to give loans to anyone that wanted it, so that “everyone could get a house”… well they told these companies they would back them up…and now is the time.

I say, let the companies fold, and the strong ones survive, our economy will be better off in the long run because of it!

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Actually, you have that backwards. Under the Clinton administration, the government let strict lending laws expire.

-J.

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Wasn’t Clinton part of Government ???? That’s what he is saying……

big G

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Wasn’t Clinton part of Government ???? That’s what he is saying……

big G

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No. He was implying that the government passed law that required lending institutions to hand out risky loans. Just the opposite. There were laws on the books that prevented it. The Clinton administration let those law expire.

-J.

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I know how to build a shelter in the woods.

I know how to catch and kill things.

I can cook what I catch and kill.

If worst comes to worse, I will be able to survive.

If we are going to leave the decisions to ” those who are smarter than us ” and go fishing or watch the Twins. I sure hope we can all ( Quote from above ) because it may not be long before we will need to !!!!!

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Obviously I was over simplifying this…That was my intent.

Jon J. and I were out on Mille Lacs tonight dodging thunderstorms and solving the worlds problems. Politics aside, and we both agree on this…wouldn’t it be nice to hear one of these candidates stand up and say “Yes, the US is in a heck of a pickle right now.” “But we are Americans, and we are the best Country in the world, and we are going to pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and take our medicine and come out of this thing stronger than ever!” “But first we gotta clean house and here is how we are gonna do it…”

If any of you noticed Mille Lacs leaning to the right tonight…..

MY OPINION…. twenty five years ago i bought a house i could afford, I have always bought used cars cause that is what i could afford. I have busted my to pay my bills and my taxes. and now i sit and watch what little retirement money i have slowly fizzle away , not because of what i have done but what others are doing. and now they want to take my taxes and bail out those who have been living better than I.. I say screw that.. Like I said , My opinion

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No. He was implying that the government passed law that required lending institutions to hand out risky loans. Just the opposite. There were laws on the books that prevented it. The Clinton administration let those law expire.

-J.

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Not quite correct Jon….
Your forgetting the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Reform Act of 1999..

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Wasn’t Clinton part of Government ???? That’s what he is saying……

big G

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No. He was implying that the government passed law that required lending institutions to hand out risky loans. Just the opposite. There were laws on the books that prevented it. The Clinton administration let those law expire.

-J.

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I thought it was congress'(R) job to propose/push legislation, not the Presidents…..

big G

I recieved this email on how we need to solve this bailout problem:

Hi Everyone,

I’m against the $85,000,000,000 bailout.

Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in

a “”We Deserve It Dividend””.

To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000

bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman

and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a

“We Deserve It Dividend”.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500 in their pocket.

A husband and wife has $595,000.

What would you do with $297,500 to $595,000 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college – it’ll be there

Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car – create jobs

Invest in the market – capital drives growth

Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks

who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company

that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it…instead of

trickling out a puny $1000.00 (“vote buy”) economic incentive that is being

proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, let’s bail l out every adult U S

Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here’s my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn’t.

Sure it’s a crazy idea that can “never work.”

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

“We Deserve It Dividend” more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington

DC .

And remember, The Family plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because

$25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh…I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic.

The problem I have is that I don’t trust any of the “players” in this deal. If we give the gov. $700,000,000,000 will the greedy execs at Fanny and Freddy sell the paper at fire sale prices, or inflate the price and once again come out smelling like a rose? If you don’t find out who is to blame for this mess, how can you be sure that you’re not giving the bailout money to the crooks who caused this mess in the first place??? Good money after bad.

I’ve seen that 3 times now and every time, the math is wrong. I think the guys running WaMu and those other banks ran the numbers for that email.

what worries me most about this is its a huge amount of money.. the treasure secretary is pressing to gain access to this kind of money with basically no strings attached.. and also have the ability to commit more as needed…. this is way too much power for one person to have….
there is so much pressure to do this quick.. fast.. now, now, now…. I dont see the world falling apart before my eyes as each day passes…. Im taking their word for it that it will fall apart soon or at all… but this whole pressure of speed.. you MUST act NOW!… like a late night infomercial… I never trust that…. sounds almost like a scam…. but as I mentioned above.. there is much I dont understand.. and I sure how SOMEONE understands….