Minnesota Vikings 2019 Season Thread

  • BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11644
    #1905835

    I don’t like the interview process, but Stefanski has been garbage many times this year and last without any outside influence. Pretty much every big game (Packers/Bears, playoff implication games, games vs good opponents) our offense has been offensive with one exception vs New Orleans last week. His inability to adapt midgame is atrocious and usually shows no indication of even attempting to do something different. The fact Cleveland hired him away is a boon to the Vikings, and I will never understand how they picked him over 49ers DC Robert Salah who gave Stefanski’s offense an epic beating.

    AnotherFisherman
    Posts: 609
    #1905836

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>AnotherFisherman wrote:</div>
    I believe SF’s Defensive Coordinator also interviewed for the position? Not sure on the timing on when he interviewed, but their defense was fine. I think it is just Stefanski being a poor play caller.

    He interviewed with them on January 4, Stefanski interviewed on January 9. 49ers also had 13 days between games. The Vikings had 6 days. They returned from New Orleans late Sunday evening and flew to SF Friday morning. A quick turnaround of a week to fit in a lot of stuff between game prep and interview prep. Shouldn’t be an excuse for either side, but it felt like it affected it from MN’s perspective. Still not saying MN was the better team, but they are better than what they showed.

    Thank you. I completely agree with you

    mnrabbit
    South Central Minnesota
    Posts: 815
    #1905838

    The fact Cleveland hired him away is a boon to the Vikings, and I will never understand how they picked him over 49ers DC Robert Salah who gave Stefanski’s offense an epic beating.

    Unless your HC is also a coordinator (which is happening more often), the HC doesn’t do a whole lot X’s and O’s wise – those duties are handed over to the Coordinators who report to the HC. Think of the HC more like the CEO of the team. Stefanski may just be viewed as a better leader, organizer, etc. than Salah.

    Here’s an interesting article on things the Browns were wanting a HC to do, and the reasons why they hired him. McDaniels supposedly wasn’t willing to meet those demands.
    https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/report-new-cleveland-browns-coach-had-to-agree-to-turn-in-game-plans-to-owner-analytics-department/95-5837e1ab-7aeb-439d-98fc-20210728eff8

    glenn57
    cold spring mn
    Posts: 11822
    #1905840

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>glenn57 wrote:</div>
    how many other teams have even played in at least 30 playoff games?

    Just asking cause that would be interesting to know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_all-time_NFL_win%E2%80%93loss_records

    Vikings are 21-30 in postseason play. The 51 games ranks tied for 5th most played. The 21 wins ranks for 12th most won. The 30 losses ranks for the most lost.
    *I did not look close enough to see if those numbers are <nobr style=”font-size: inherit”>updated</nobr> for this post season or not.

    And to speak regular season, the Vikings have the 7th highest <nobr style=”font-size: inherit”>win</nobr> percentage of all time. Certainly not a bad organization at all, just haven’t gotten the bounces to go their way in the post season.

    waytogo waytogo thats cool. there also like the top 6 in playoff games played.

    thanks for posting that!!!!!

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 10430
    #1905843

    Wow! Stefanski’s a moron for taking that deal.
    So basically he’ll be the assistant HC.lol

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11644
    #1905845

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
    The fact Cleveland hired him away is a boon to the Vikings, and I will never understand how they picked him over 49ers DC Robert Salah who gave Stefanski’s offense an epic beating.

    Unless your HC is also a coordinator (which is happening more often), the HC doesn’t do a whole lot X’s and O’s wise – those duties are handed over to the Coordinators who report to the HC. Think of the HC more like the CEO of the team. Stefanski may just be viewed as a better leader, organizer, etc. than Salah.

    Here’s an interesting article on things the Browns were wanting a HC to do, and the reasons why they hired him. McDaniels supposedly wasn’t willing to meet those demands.
    https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/report-new-cleveland-browns-coach-had-to-agree-to-turn-in-game-plans-to-owner-analytics-department/95-5837e1ab-7aeb-439d-98fc-20210728eff8

    Yeah, I’d say the vast majority of HC’s take ownership of one side of the ball, and leave it to the Coordinator for the other side within a general game plan. Which is why I blame Stefanski more than Zimmer for all the offensive stinkers under his direction. I think that article also speaks to Stefanski’s ability to stick with one organization through 3 HC’s and about a dozen OC’s. He seems to be a yes man of the highest order, and works for self preservation/advancement only. I’m very glad he is gone.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16654
    #1905848

    How can you have the 8th best offense in the NFL with what some say is a quarterback one step above being dead. The same quarterback and coordinator who were praised just a week ago. Are now garbage.

    Stefanski will do just fine in Cleveland.

    I’m glad football is over, the nonsense is getting crazy. crazy

    mnrabbit
    South Central Minnesota
    Posts: 815
    #1905849

    Which is why I blame Stefanski more than Zimmer for all the offensive stinkers under his direction.

    I really wouldn’t blame Zimmer for any of them in his 6 years, other than they report to him and he is in charge of hiring them and making sure they implement a gameplan that represents the entire team (this week does the defense need the offense to try and dictate the flow of a game the certain way, etc.)

    5 OC’s in 5 years is starting to be a sign, while most have left for job advancement, there has to be some continuity there at some point soon. Under Zimmer the Vikings have also started Matt Cassel, Teddy Bridgewater, Christian Ponder, Sam Bradford, Shaun Hill, Case Keenum, Kirk Cousins, and Sean Mannion. Find me another HC that has started 8 QB’s in 6 seasons and had the relative long term success that MN has had under him. I believe MN’s winning percentage the last 6 years under Zimmer ranks somewhere around 5-8 in the league.

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1905861

    I guess I have a more positive outlook on the SF game than most here. I mean, yeah, the final score wasn’t particularly close, and sure, they had one drive where they ran the ball every single down and scored a TD with what looked like no resistance at all.

    BUT, I think if you watched closely, you’d see what I saw. If 20-30 plays just would have gone our way, and we had better O-line play, I think we would have been right in it!

    Outdraft
    Western Wi.
    Posts: 1149
    #1905862

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mnrabbit wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>glenn57 wrote:</div>
    how many other teams have even played in at least 30 playoff games?

    Just asking cause that would be interesting to know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_all-time_NFL_win%E2%80%93loss_records

    Vikings are 21-30 in postseason play. The 51 games ranks tied for 5th most played. The 21 wins ranks for 12th most won. The 30 losses ranks for the most lost.
    *I did not look close enough to see if those numbers are <nobr style=”font-size: inherit”>updated</nobr> for this post season or not.

    And to speak regular season, the Vikings have the 7th highest <nobr style=”font-size: inherit”>win</nobr> percentage of all time. Certainly not a bad organization at all, just haven’t gotten the bounces to go their way in the post season.

    waytogo waytogo thats cool. there also like the top 6 in playoff games played.

    thanks for posting that!!!!!

    ya, they dominated in the 70s, believe me I know, I’m a packer fan and I grew up watching them kick our asses, we stunk for 25 years, the younger fans now got spoiled with Favre and Rodgers,

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11644
    #1905868

    How can you have the 8th best offense in the NFL with what some say is a quarterback one step above being dead. The same quarterback and coordinator who were praised just a week ago. Are now garbage.

    Stefanski will do just fine in Cleveland.

    I’m glad football is over, the nonsense is getting crazy. crazy

    I’ve been railing against Stefanski since the stinker at Soldier Field to start the year. He also had some terrible decisions against NO last week that thankfully didn’t come back to bite us. He didn’t have Dalvin in the game after the Brees fumble, and then continually ran sweep when it was about -28 yards, including on the goalline where he should have just been hammering it up the middle and not losing ground.

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5797
    #1905869

    One last thought about Zimmer…. why does the team almost always fall flat on their face in a big game??? Doesn’t that ultimately fall on the head coach when it’s repeatitive?

    You think about the 2017 season and the Minneapolis Miracle. 13-3 record and get the #2 seed. They have the bye, host the Saints, were in control for most of the game and then let it slip away at the end (sound familiar?). It takes a ‘miracle’ to win. Then you go to Philadelphia and get embarrassed.

    We could do several more examples and don’t even get me started with Sunday Night or Monday Night Football. At some point it’s the head coaches job with how prepared your team is to play when it counts.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17409
    #1905877

    Part of the reason I think they are hesitant to “blow it up” and start over with a new head coach/GM/quarterback is because things can get a whole lot worse really quickly. 10-6 (technically 11-5 with a throwaway loss to Chicago at home with 3rd stringers in) combined with a road playoff win against at higher seed is considered to be a pretty good season when you compare it to almost every other team in the league. The teams that are successful for a longer period of time do not have high turnover rates. That’s just my opinion. Its hard to even make the playoffs in the NFL, much less win playoff games.

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1905879

    On a more serious note, it’s hard to really see this team in it’s current construction making waves in the playoffs. But who knows, maybe a more up to date offensive philosophy and upgraded O-line could make the difference?

    I know it’s easy to look through our purple tinted glasses and see all the talent on the team, but how does an offense with a competent QB, Dalvin Cook, Adam Thielen, and Stefon Diggs not show more consistency on offense? Perhaps none of those guys are as good as we thought they were.

    On one hand, there were times that our offense was great* this year!

    *When we were able to run the ball on 1st and 2nd down effectively. The problem is when we get to the playoffs(or to a big game with playoff implications), we inevitably run into a team that has a stronger D-line than our O-line(Bears our last 4 matchups, Eagles in the NFCCG in 2018, Niners, Chiefs, Packers week 15, etc). In which case we crumble into a pile of the most ineffective offenses I’ve ever watched.

    1st down: Run the ball for no gain.
    2nd down: Run the ball for no gain OR throw a screen pass for no gain.
    3rd down and long: Drop back and get sacked or pressured before our receivers get through their routes.

    They showed a few replays focused on the WRs/secondary in the niners game and every WR was just smothered by the defense, nowhere for Cousins to throw.

    In some cases, sure, maybe we want him to throw the ball up for guys like Thielen and Diggs, both of whom are good at contested catches, but I just don’t think that’s a long-term strategy for success.

    Meanwhile, we watched the niners just kill us with quick-fire passing plays on their first drive. A lot of pre-snap movement and motion to open up parts of the middle of the field. Where is our innovative play design? Oh yeah, double reverse to Diggs incomplete pass/sack happened twice.

    It’s impossible to watch this offense in games where our run game sucks, which is like 1/4 of the games, which is way too many for us to win a super bowl. And when that happens our game plan appears to be, throw screen passes, if that doesn’t work….?

    The niners gameplan and execution was just top notch on Saturday. First drive they just absolutely carved us up with short passes, and continued to show that ability throughout the game. We had to adjust to stop those types of plays and then they just ran it down our throat. Meanwhile, they showed early that they could stop our run game and we couldn’t do anything to slow down their D-line.

    Shouldn’t we have like 50 different quick-fire passing plays in our playbook that highlight Thielen and Diggs’ skillsets? Or Rudolph’s size? Or Dalvin’s ability to catch and run(excluding screen passes)?

    Or is Diggs only good at running down the sideline. Is Rudolph only good at catching redzone passes where Kirk can throw it up with the safety net of the endzone, etc.

    SuperDave1959
    Harrisville, UT
    Posts: 2816
    #1905884

    If Chicago got a real quarterback this offseason your division would look real interesting next year.

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11644
    #1905885

    Part of the reason I think they are hesitant to “blow it up” and start over with a new head coach/GM/quarterback is because things can get a whole lot worse really quickly.

    Agreed. This has also been the Vikings plan most of my life, have a good run, fall just short, fire the HC and start from the beginning. I’m fine with keeping Zimmer/Spielman and keep knocking on the door. They will have a busy offseason restructuring or cutting a lot of big names, need to figure out the OL somehow, we need a big physical receiver as well, and likely a whole new offensive system again. Defensively we are in a good place imo, Weatherly/Idenigbo have good depth on the DL, and even with a rash of injuries we were still alright in the secondary w/ Hill/Hughes/Alexander/Boyd backing up the starters. Not sure what they can do with Rhodes, but he needs to be cut or restructure to about half his current salary.

    lindyrig79
    Forest Lake / Lake Mille Lacs
    Posts: 5797
    #1905891

    Hopefully Zimmer will be like Bill Cowher and finally get the puzzle figured out after many seasons. Agreed – our O Line needs major help if they want to stick with the scheme.

    mnrabbit
    South Central Minnesota
    Posts: 815
    #1905897

    Remember what life was like before Zimmer? I’ll never forget this game when we faced Zimmer’s Bengals near the end of 2013, a few weeks before we hired him. We are 1,000x better than that and I don’t want to blow up the current regime for the fear that we will got back to that.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312220cin.htm

    And if you look through who played that game, the Vikings actually had decent players. The most lifeless Vikings game I can remember watching.

    1hl&sinker
    On the St.Croix
    Posts: 2501
    #1905906

    Two observations. We have a quarter back that wont fight for a first down . We saw it earlier in the season when he slid short of a 1st and we saw when he threw with a non reception when he only had one 1 1/2 yard against the 9era.

    We know Cousins get flustered so why design a bootleg play where Cousins runs a circle then tries to pass. Jimminy, why get him all dissy before he passes the ball? rotflol

    BigWerm
    SW Metro
    Posts: 11644
    #1905908

    Remember what life was like before Zimmer?

    3 coaches prior to Zimmer were 92-100, Zimmer is 57-38. Like I said I’d rather keep knocking at the door, than start from scratch on an unknown commodity.

    philtickelson
    Inactive
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 1678
    #1905911

    Part of the reason I think they are hesitant to “blow it up” and start over with a new head coach/GM/quarterback is because things can get a whole lot worse really quickly. 10-6 (technically 11-5 with a throwaway loss to Chicago at home with 3rd stringers in) combined with a road playoff win against at higher seed is considered to be a pretty good season when you compare it to almost every other team in the league. The teams that are successful for a longer period of time do not have high turnover rates. That’s just my opinion. Its hard to even make the playoffs in the NFL, much less win playoff games.

    I started writing up a response that was like, “we are kind of like the wild, always a ‘decent’ team, make the playoffs fairly often, never a favorite to win it all, never a top 3 pick to draft that generational talent”.

    But then I realized that’s not exactly the case.

    I think it’s probably right to say the Vikings had the team in place to win 2-3 super bowls in the last 20 years, which is about all you can do unless you are the Patriots, we just haven’t gotten it done.

    ’98 Vikings and ‘2009 Vikings for sure could have gone all the way, and there were a few other years where we definitely had a shot.

    And we absolutely had top top end talent on the team, maybe excluding the QB position.

    I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see this core of the Vikings getting it done. Too many question marks next year and we’ve already had to pay too many of the guys past their rookie deals.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17409
    #1905912

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mnrabbit wrote:</div>
    Remember what life was like before Zimmer?

    3 coaches prior to Zimmer were 92-100, Zimmer is 57-38. Like I said I’d rather keep knocking at the door, than start from scratch on an unknown commodity.

    Ya I agree. A lot of Vikings fans rail on Dennis Green and Brad Childress too but Denny is the second highest winning coach here (behind Bud Grant) and Chilly took a 6-10 team to an 8-8 team to a 10-6 team to a 12-4 team the four years he was here…5th year got canned for going 6-10 when the roof on the dome collapsed.

    JoeMX1825
    MN
    Posts: 17856
    #1905929

    Every year 31 teams are disappointed and their fan bases think they suck…

    targaman
    Inactive
    Wilton, WI
    Posts: 2759
    #1905943

    How can you have the 8th best offense in the NFL with what some say is a quarterback one step above being dead. The same quarterback and coordinator who were praised just a week ago. Are now garbage.

    Stefanski will do just fine in Cleveland.

    I’m glad football is over, the nonsense is getting crazy. crazy

    Only for you and the purple. I get it though…. Playing for draft picks again jester

    Beast
    Posts: 1123
    #1906338
    Attachments:
    1. 1ho2py-1.jpg

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16654
    #1909233

    ESPN is reporting Gary Kubiak will be named offensive coordinator.

    Dan
    Southeast MN
    Posts: 3784
    #1909238

    Makes sense to me, he had such a hand in the offense this year and keeping him in the system will make the change more seamless. As much as some don’t want to believe it, the Vikings offense did improve this year and Kubiak will continue that zone run-blocking scheme that (sometimes?) worked this year.

    mahtofire14
    Mahtomedi, MN
    Posts: 11036
    #1909246

    Makes sense to me, he had such a hand in the offense this year and keeping him in the system will make the change more seamless. As much as some don’t want to believe it, the Vikings offense did improve this year and Kubiak will continue that zone run-blocking scheme that (sometimes?) worked this year.

    Will be nice for Cousins to have the same offensive scheme two years in a row for the first time in 5 years.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17409
    #1909316

    How in the heck did Xavier make the pro bowl? He was ranked almost dead last in the cornerback position this past season. Must be a lot of other guys that didn’t want to go.

    Dan
    Southeast MN
    Posts: 3784
    #1909381

    I fully agree. This year he was maybe the 3rd or 4th best CB ON THE TEAM, let alone NFC.

    Typically people blow this off and say “yeah well, no one really takes the Pro Bowl seriously.” Which is true and I don’t disagree. However Pro Bowl selections are actually used for a lot, such as free agent negotiations. I would imagine Rhodes’ agent will now put this Pro Bowl nod in his arsenal for his player’s next contract.

    It also gets brought up for HOF consideration as well, when you hear so-and-so being considered and he made xxx number of Pro Bowls.

    It is mostly a joke, but it does impact other serious matters as well. And it’s not exclusive to football, pretty much every sport has major issues with their All-Star/Pro Bowl exhibition.

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