Minnesota Muzzleloader Season – Any New Equipment

With the opening of the Minnesota Muzzleloader season only a few days away. I thought I would see if there is anything new in equipment that anyone is trying this season. I’m mostly interested in if there any new bullets or powder that anyone is trying this year. I need to go in the next few days to get a new supply of both and not sure if I should try something new or stick to what I have been using the last few seasons ( 777 Powder and Powerbelt Platinum ) I think I may give the Powerbelt Aerolite a try. I’d read some good reviews on them. I like to shoot 110 Grains ( 1 50 and 2 30″s ) but the 30 Grains are kind of hard to find. The 150 Max was just to muck charge for my gun to control. It shot good with 100 but even better with the 110 and I liked the little extra punch or the 110. All the buddies normally get together on the Friday before season and sight in their guns and have a little shooting match for bragging rights after everyone is all dialed in. I know the 3 shot groups got much better last season after most everyone added a scope to their guns. Be interesting to see how tight the groups get this year after everyone has had a chance to make a few adjustments in the off season. Good luck to everyone heading out this weekend. Shoot straight and be safe !!!!

I can’t stand pellets or t7 or Pyrodex because of the crud ring these powders generate so my only thoughts lean towards BH209 powder. Powerbelts of any ilk aren’t good company with me either….too many ugly reviews on them I use a Harvester sabot and an XTP bullet in 300 grain.44 cal in all my rifles of .50 cal. In the .50 cal pistol I shoot an XTP in .44 cal at 240 grains. In my .45 cal rifle I’m shooting a .40 cal XTP.

I have a .54 T/C Renegade that’s never seen a load, but that is the only gun I have that will see T7 granular if I decide to shoot it. And I’ll be using a .50 cal, 300 grain XTP atop the powder if and when I do shoot it.

Good luck and good shooting. Stay safe.

I love the BH powder. I’ve been messing with some load changes. Thought of going from 250 grain to 300. I’ve been trying Shockwave’s and Hornady SST”s.
DT

deertracker…. be careful of those SSTs as they , like the powerbelts, have a bad reputation for terminal performance especially after 150 yards. Can’t comment on the Shockwaves as I have not shot them at game. I pretty much stay away from any bullet with a plastic or polymer tip.

I love the XTPs and the picture here shows three 300 grain, non-magnum, .44 cal XTPs taken from as many bucks, all neck shots.

I shoot blackhorn exclusively in all of my rifles and pistol save for the one sidelock. I weigh my charges separately and tube them for convenience at the range and in the field.

I have both Swift A-Frame 300 and 240 grain bullets as well as Deep Curl 300 grain and 240 grain. I can pretty much shoot any of the 300 bullets using the same sabots and 77 grains [weighed][110 grain by volume] powder charge in any of my .50 cal rifles and all of the 240 grain bullets using the same sabots and 63 grain by weight [90 grains by volume] powder charges and accuracy is as close to identical as a guy can get. I just haven’t ever had an XTP fail me and until that happens they’ll get the nod.

The one big problem a lot of people have who are using primer ignition is that they need to be certain the flame channel and fire hole are clear. With primers and T7 or Pyrdex one or two shots may be gotten before another load binds from the crud in the barrel, black horn can get maybe 20 shots before loading is starting to balk. A good rule of thumb is when you need to swab, run a drill bit in the flame channel just behind the primer pocket and a small wire thru the flame hole. The other primer related concern are those primer packaged as “muzzle loader” primers. Skip those and pick up Federal 209 A, CCI Magnum or the Winchester 209 shotshell primer that come in the blue box. A primer cannot be hot enough in cold weather and with the Winchester primers measuring the longest of any American made primer the amount of blow back or blow by is greatly lessened if not eliminated. Personally I use the Wichesters and have never had a bad ignition in the field under any adverse weather conditions.

I Know to get the most accuracy out of the smoke pole I should make the move to shooting loose powder. I’m sure the BH209 is most likely the better way to go. I just like the simplicity of the pellets. I have hit and recovered all 4 deer that I’ve shot at so far with the muzzleloader with my current setup. 2 Deer dropped in their tracks. 1 had a blood trail a blind person could have followed. 1 did have a fairly week blood trail but there was a recent snow fall so that helped a lot. I tried playing around with a few different bullets last year ( Including the XTP – But with a different sabot – I could not locate the Harvester ) and I could not get any of them to group well. I often had a real hard time getting sabots to load – Sounds like the BH209 would help a lot with the loading issue.

I was going to pm you Fishthumper and let you know I was trying to let you know of the powder and bullet options, not really trying to tell you how to hunt or shoot. There have been concerns over the PowerBelt line of bullets regarding terminal performance, enough so that I refuse to use them and the pellets are surely a bit less challenging in the field but not enough that the 209 powder should be not tried. There are huge benefits from getting away from using both.

Cabelas carries the Harvester sabots or you can order directly from http://www.Harvestermuzzleloading.com.

The BH209 powder all but eliminates the hard loading and certainly under hunting conditions reloading will be a snap compared to the other powders and pellets, plus the 209 powder is by far and away less corrosive than black or the other subs.

What are you shooting for a gun Fishthumper? There are a lot of guns that will shoot the 209 powder right from the box today. CVA’s call for a different plug or a conversion to the original to shoot the 209 powder but the meager cost is offset by the benefits of the powder. The 209 powder can be measured from the bottle by volume or it can be weighed on a scale as I do. There is a conversion formula that has to be followed but that is a simple 70% of what black powder calls for. If you were using 100 by volume grains of black, you’d want 70 grains of the 209 powder by volume. I have the conversion in 5 grain increments that I can pm you if you’d like. Just say the word. There is however a difference in the same charge if its done by weight or by measure and I can include that aspect as well. And the MAXIMUM load for the 209 powder is 120 grains by volume unless you own a custom gun.

At any rate….happy hunting! Stay safe!

Tom – No offence taken – I enjoy all the knowledge that you bring to this site. I shoot a Thompson Center Omega. Go ahead and send the Info/Data you have for the BH209. I’m going to make the change prior to next season and that is the direction I’m looking to go. Like you I’ve read some of the Negative Info. on the powerbelts. I myself and all my friends has never had a issue with them, but I’m sure it just a matter of time before one of us does. all of my shots and kills have been rather close with a 75 yard shot being the longest – That may be the reason I’ve not had a issue as of yet. I normally shoot either 100 or 110 grains of the 777. I bought some of the new magnum 60 grain pellets this year. I’m going to either use 2 of them for a total of 120 or mix a 60 with a 50 for my normal 110. I’ve got a little time Friday morning so I’m going to play around with both. Your knowledge on shooting and ballistics is far greater than mine. I’m into the sport, but not near as into it as you are. Its nice when someone like you does a lot of the leg work and is willing to share your knowledge with others. Good Luck to you if you are heading out this weekend.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

I can’t stand pellets or t7 or Pyrodex because of the crud ring these powders generate so my only thoughts lean towards BH209 powder. Powerbelts of any ilk aren’t good company with me either….too many ugly reviews on them I use a Harvester sabot and an XTP bullet in 300 grain.44 cal in all my rifles of .50 cal. In the .50 cal pistol I shoot an XTP in .44 cal at 240 grains. In my .45 cal rifle I’m shooting a .40 cal XTP.

I have a .54 T/C Renegade that’s never seen a load, but that is the only gun I have that will see T7 granular if I decide to shoot it. And I’ll be using a .50 cal, 300 grain XTP atop the powder if and when I do shoot it.

Good luck and good shooting. Stay safe.

Hey Tom – Which Harvester Sabots do you use with the XTP. Harvesters web site suggest the Crush Rib sabots

I use the green crush ribs with my .50 caliber rifles, using the .44 cal XTP in 300 grain. The black crush ribs work with the .45 caliber bullets. I use .44 because my guns favor the narrower bullets and while it may not seem like much difference it is definitely there. Your Omega may play otherwise. Each gun is different. I’d order both and give each bullet diameter a try when you start snooping out the Bh209 next year. Your gun is 209 ready so switching will be of no consequence.

I’m sure you’re aware but will just toss this out as a reminder….when you seat your bullets on those pellets you only snug the bullet down, don’t get heavy handed. If you crush or fracture a pellet nasty things can happen. The loose powder can be packed hard. Pellets and loose powder are two distinctly different animals.

I’ll get that conversion table and send it your way.

Again….good luck to you and your party.

This will be my first black powder season so all my gear is new to me. Been shooting 110 gr bh209, federal 209a primers and Barnes T-EZ 250 gr bullets. My rifle, CVA Wolf, likes that combo very much.

I got some of the bh209 viles that they sell, 5 for about $6, and premeasured charges to take to the range. That made it pretty easy for reloading. I set my powder measurer to 110 gr but when I dump it into the vile it reads just above 100 gr on the vile. I don’t know how accurate the hash marks are on the side of those viles and I don’t know the accuracy of my measurer as I have not weighed my charges, but the gun shoots very consistent with 1” groups at 100 yards. I have noticed that the bh209 will settle in if you tap the side of the measurer or the vile so it could be settling on the transfer and that may be the reason the two don’t line up. Very pleased with the accuracy of this combo at any rate. I will continue to toy with it after the season to dial in for more distance but it is ready out to 100 for now.

Sounds like a shooter Bullhead.

All powders used in muzzies should be measured or weighed without any tapping or forced settling. Just fill your measure and dump in the barrel or a charge tube.

The 209 charge tubes marketed by Western Powder are very inaccurate so don’t put much stock in the charge as it shows in them. Trust the powder measure.

Those, and other, tubes can develop static and can get powder clinging inside when you pour them out. I take a dryer sheet and a forceps and stuff an end of the dryer sheet in the tube and twist the tube so that the sheet leaves the anti-static stuff on the tubes. I do this regardless so I don’t have any unexpected surprises. Maybe every six or eight times you fill the tubes do this. Blackhorn from the jug can have a lot of static in it and the static will transfer to the tubes. Just call it preventive medicine.

The only thing that I know for certain is that CVA will be coming back with a 45cal rifle again and they will intro it at the SHOT Show. It is a fast twist rate rifle and they will also be marketing a long, sleek, heavyweight missile to match in the Powerbelt line. The rifle will also be BH209 ready. Will likely have to get one because I have killed the vast bulk of my deer with a 45cal since ’72 (and i own tonnage of 50’s and 54’s).

Whether or not I will shoot their new projectile remains to be seen. I have had no issues using a 200gr SST or a 175 Dead Center powered by loose 777. Both kill deer like the Sword of Gideon. Either should work fine in the faster twist rate. Rather shoot the BH209 however.

CVA will release a couple new inlines including an Accura .45 caliber break barrel model and the Paramount .45 bolt. The bolt gun can be considered high end. I think I read where both guns will have faster rates of twist, faster than the 1:28 currently offered in the .50 cal Accuras, that will allow more consistent use of heavy conicals for long range shooting….think in terms of target shooters tossing 400 to 650 grain cast lead conicals upwards of 1000 yards. The Accura model though has only so much breech strength so maybe the fast twist rate won’t be reflected in the Accura if the load using 209 maxxes at 120 grains and the 350grain max on bullets weight still applies there. The new Accuras will be sporting 30″ barrels which might make them ungainly in the field and honestly .45 cal barrels rely more on bullet mass/weight in fast twist barrels than barrel length. Powder burn is insignificant beyond 26 inches of barrel so nothing to gain really from the extra length other than weight and having 4 too many inches in overall gun length.

Coming from the box as 209 powder capable is a huge step in itself. The nitride process as standard is huge too.

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I’ll probably try a package of the Powerbelts on paper, then a box of wet newspaper, to see what kind of terminal performance can be expected. Supposedly these new bullets will open up but not fragment like the usual run of Powerbelt products.

I really want to get these products in my mitts before I get too excited. That bold rifle sounds exciting but priced wayyyyyy out of my meager budget.

The break open receivers have a short length compared to a bolt action and although irons are going the way of the dinosaur, maybe that is their thinking…sight radius for iron sights??

The rumor mill has been pretty active on a Paramount rifle…120-140 grain capable (BH209) and 22″ twist (same as the new .45cal Accura). Talk of “300 yard performance”. Seems that CVA is holding it all pretty close to the vest on this product and has no comment.

Though I have never killed any personally at this distance, my 45cal FireBolts have 200 yard accuracy to get the job done. Whether or not the projectile has the energy is another matter. Prefer to shoot them at 10 yards, but have reached out to 165yds with smokeless on one occasion. All of my 45cal kills have come inside 125yds. Not so sure that having anything capable of 300yds will benefit me because I prefer to hunt my deer, not sling lead to obscene distances.

There are no G1 or G7 numbers released on that new Paramount missile to get a feel for the drift at 150-200yds.

Will let others be the Guinea Pig with this new Paramount rifle/projectile system and I will sit back and wait.

I’m not interested at all in either rifle. And the bullet….I’ll try it once its available without having to order on line or spend a arm and leg for a package. Until then I’ll read what others have to say.

Ha…CVA deleted my post on Facebook