mille lacs fall survey

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/2014/10/20/fall-mille-lacs-walleye-survey-shows-promise/17609453/

Haven’t figured out the @ part of IDO, but this seems to only backup what Will was saying about the bait fish shortage.

Those in the know, do you feel the increased tulibee #’s have helped by giving ample forage for the larger eyes, and not having the cannabilism? Or the increased perch population to provide enough for the yearling eyes to eat, therefore just more yearlings in the system?

I would assume both are just as important but curious to others thoughts.

nhamm wrote:

Haven’t figured out the @ part of IDO, but this seems to only backup what Will was saying about the bait fish shortage.

Those in the know, do you feel the increased tulibee #’s have helped by giving ample forage for the larger eyes, and not having the cannabilism? Or the increased perch population to provide enough for the yearling eyes to eat, therefore just more yearlings in the system?

I would assume both are just as important but curious to others thoughts.

^^Absolutely.

I think having increased bait (either perch or tulibees) helps tremendously to take pressure off the younger walleyes. Specifically I think the Tulibee population helps feed the larger walleyes/pike in the open basin and the perch population helps more with the average sized fish that spend most of their time relating to structure.

I also find it interesting that more smallmouth are being caught in the deeper sets… Most likely this indicates they’re also adapting to the increased baitfish population as the diet studies have shown that near shore smallmouth eat mostly crawfish.

Will

I wonder how much this (start of recovery) has to do with extremely late springs the last two years pretty much stopping tribal netting…

ptc wrote:

I wonder how much this (start of recovery) has to do with extremely late springs the last two years pretty much stopping tribal netting…

I’ll add on to this if it was in part to the lack of netting, what benefit did that have to the lake?

How many male eyes does it take to fertilize a female?

They say there’s always enough spawned, they just dont make it to the next year. If there are more YOY eyes during fall that means
A. There were more to begin with B. More baitfish for the bigger eyes to not eat the YOY eyes
C. Combo of both.

So if that means there were more spawned than past years will that be attributed to the late springs, or the lack of nets?

ptc wrote:

I wonder how much this (start of recovery) has to do with extremely late springs the last two years pretty much stopping tribal netting…

Great question that I doubt will ever have a definitive answer (Too many variables involved) but it definitely is a factor that I hope is not ignored.

They say there’s always enough spawned, they just dont make it to the next year. If there are more YOY eyes during fall that means
A. There were more to begin with B. More baitfish for the bigger eyes to not eat the YOY eyes
C. Combo of both.

If you believe the data in the article it points out that based on recent history this year was an average year for spawning success (ie there were not necessarily more to begin with) but there was a higher recruitment/survival rate. Based on those two facts my left-brain dominant way of thinking leads me to believe that your option B is the most likely cause. However my gut feel also leads me to believe that it most likely would have actually been a worse than average year had there been more netting.

This lake survey is EXACTLY what I expected/predicted and I am still willing to bet $$ that the DNR/State government will not waste this opportunity to pat themselves on the back for “fixing” Mille Lacs.

How can it be fixed when it was just declared officially broken this year?!?!?!

suzuki wrote:

How can it be fixed when it was just declared officially broken this year?!?!?!

That’s why I used “quotes” Mike… In this case fixed is obviously very much open to interpretation.

My prediction was that with a lower population of large walleyes and a high population of YOY perch (not coincidentally I may add) that when they did their Spring and Fall surveys they would find that the walleyes year-to-year recruitment rate would be much better. And viola that is exactly what has happened… Next year when it happens again the DNR will take credit for their new regulations helping to correct the imbalance of the lake when I really believe it was much more mother nature overcoming their slot limits and the lake working to re-balance itself after years of mismanagement.

I honestly am very afraid that many other lakes are currently falling into the same slot limit trap that Mille Lacs has been caught in for years and that the encouraging lake surveys on Mille Lacs right now (in spite of, not because of the management) are going to embolden the DNR to increase the use of slot limits on other bodies of water.

So the sky is not falling?

I still understand that a combination of fishery mismanagement and natural circumstances are to blame but unfortunately local businesses are the victims here.

No use trying to ignore the elephant in the room
Killing more smallies is working

biggill wrote:

So the sky is not falling?

I still understand that a combination of fishery mismanagement and natural circumstances are to blame but unfortunately local businesses are the victims here.

Absolutely Matt, the issues at Mille Lacs are very personal to me as many of my friends up there earn a living based off of the lake. The reason I keep pointing out that I think the slot limit on Mille Lacs is one of, if not the biggest, issues that led to the walleye population imbalance and subsequent crash is that I have concerns that similar management practices using slots to create a high population of large walleyes in other lakes are being implemented with none of the court ordered harvest quotas that exist on Mille Lacs. I don’t want to see this scenario repeated on other lakes.

The point I want to make is that the ecosystem lake is incredibly strong. Even the severe mismanagement couldn’t keep it down for long. I think it’ll be a quick recovery, but it’ll take some time for everything to stabilize again.

The other problem is the misconception that removing nets from the lake is going to solve the problem.

I think I share the exact same point of view. I even had a nice long talk to a seasoned co at the state fair about mostly AIS, but we touched on the ML issue. He was absolutely convinced that slots were the main reason for the imbalance.

biggill wrote:

The other problem is the misconception that removing nets from the lake is going to solve the problem.

It’s no more a misconception then you can run your car without gas. While the nets are far from the whole issue they are a contributing factor that can’t be ignored.

biggill wrote:

I think I share the exact same point of view. I even had a nice long talk to a seasoned co at the state fair about mostly AIS, but we touched on the ML issue. He was absolutely convinced that slots were the main reason for the imbalance.

And to think I get accused of thinking the earth is flat. I can’t even imagine the indoctrination training required to believe the slots are the main problem ….. and ignore the 600 pound gorilla

Sorry guys. I won’t bite. I’ve got AIS threads to worry about.

Paulski wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
I think I share the exact same point of view. I even had a nice long talk to a seasoned co at the state fair about mostly AIS, but we touched on the ML issue. He was absolutely convinced that slots were the main reason for the imbalance.

And to think I get accused of thinking the earth is flat. I can’t even imagine the indoctrination training required to believe the slots are the main problem ….. and ignore the 600 pound gorilla

The problem is the management system that is in place based on a court order… Because of the nets. I don’t think anyone disagrees that the ideal solution would be to remove the nets which would eliminate the need for a slot to be applied… Without an act of congress (literally) that solution won’t happen. The nets need to go, but its crazy to say there’s nothing that can be done in the mean time. The management plan on Mille Lacs for the past 20 years has been a huge failure that ended up burying many local businesses this past summer. The slots need to be fixed regardless of what happens with netting.

Ok I’ll bite.

Plain and simple, quotas and slots ruined the lake.

Since quotas were never severely exceeded by anglers or nets, why the crash?

If correctly manage the harvest, you’ll have a healthy lake. Nets can stay if the harves is actually managed.

Whether the quota is set to 5 lbs or 5M, the quota will be the determining factor.

In the current way of thinking, if you remove the nets and then give that quota back to the angler, what changed?

Other then females living long enough to deposit eggs into the lake? Nothing I guess.

Will Roseberg wrote:

The problem is the management system that is in place based on a court order… Because of the nets. I don’t think anyone disagrees that the ideal solution would be to remove the nets which would eliminate the need for a slot to be applied… Without an act of congress (literally) that solution won’t happen. The nets need to go, but its crazy to say there’s nothing that can be done in the mean time. The management plan on Mille Lacs for the past 20 years has been a huge failure that ended up burying many local businesses this past summer. The slots need to be fixed regardless of what happens with netting.

Actually the President has the authority to do something, but that road leads right back to the Supreme Court who took the politically correct route the last time around, much to the chagrin of Chief Justice Rehnquist….. who could not find any good reason for the rational of the majority ….. I digress

Dutchboy wrote:

Other then females living long enough to deposit eggs into the lake? Nothing I guess.

Its my understanding the net mesh size only takes mainly slot fish, which would be mostly males, creating the imbalance of larger females in the lake causing the baitfish shortage, hence the cannabilism.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

If the nets were the issue, it would seem the last couple springs would have made the lake even worse, leaving more fish in the system which would deplete the batfish even further. But that’s not the case by these reports.