MIAC Proposed Change

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Rod Bent wrote:</div>
But I figure we could play them non conference every year and still fill a stadium!

If they move up to D2 or D1, there is no way this will continue. There would be no benefit to either side.

What do you think of UST joining the WIAC Ralph? Doesn’t seem like a good match for either to me, but likely their only way to stay in D3. Now that this is done, I’d like to see UST continue to move up to D1. If Iowa can support multiple D1 teams, there’s no reason MN can’t, and a little in-state recruiting competition might be good for the Gophers who have been generally terrible our whole lives.

Enrollment has swelled, but how many of those are students who don’t live on campus, have no interest in sports and cant get into the other schools????

That is a bull sh*t excuse.

Cobber here. Absolutely hate the move. Step up for the big game and beat them, don’t kick them out. Is there a way to see which schools voted in favor of kicking UST out?

I think the WIAC is their best option but still not a good one. If they go d2 or d1 and can start recruiting, then I don’t think they’ll want to keep the Johnnie/Tommie rivalry anymore.

BigWerm wrote:

What do you think of UST joining the WIAC Ralph?

Like you said, I see it as their only option to stay in D3, but the WIAC and UST are quite different.

Unsubstantiated rumors have UST petitioning the NCAA for a direct move to D1. Time will tell, I guess.

Charlie W wrote:

If they go d2 or d1 and can start recruiting,

I think you mean offering athletic scholarships. The D3 big dogs recruit quite heavily, they just can’t offer athletic scholarships.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

Yeah, some of us are more connected to the issue and have been aware of this simmering situation for quite a while.

Fair enough. Now that a couple of Johnnies have chimed in about their displeasure, I would be interested in knowing what some former or current alumni of the other member MIAC schools think of this. Anyone?

gim wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ralph Wiggum wrote:</div>
Yeah, some of us are more connected to the issue and have been aware of this simmering situation for quite a while.

Fair enough. Now that a couple of Johnnies have chimed in about their displeasure, I would be interested in knowing what some former or current alumni of the other member MIAC schools think of this. Anyone?

Concordia Alum here. Hate the move.

gim wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ralph Wiggum wrote:</div>
Yeah, some of us are more connected to the issue and have been aware of this simmering situation for quite a while.

Fair enough. Now that a couple of Johnnies have chimed in about their displeasure, I would be interested in knowing what some former or current alumni of the other member MIAC schools think of this. Anyone?

Bethel alum, don’t like it and think the reason is ridiculous.

Ralph Wiggum wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Charlie W wrote:</div>
If they go d2 or d1 and can start recruiting,

I think you mean offering athletic scholarships. The D3 big dogs recruit quite heavily, they just can’t offer athletic scholarships.

I went to St Thomas for wrestling. No scholarships, but they do have money available for athletes. My financial package changed dramatically after dislocating my elbow.

I did mean athletic scholarships. Thanks for the correction.
I can speak for all of the current students at sju and they all agree- dumb move for a bad reason.

Former Hamline Athlete. I can understand the reasoning behind the decision. Double the enrollment of the next biggest school is substantial when trying to be comparative. The Athletic Department at UST has funneled a lot of money into athletics because that bump in tuition.

Don’t get me wrong, I love a good David vs. Goliath story, but at what point do we draw the line and say too big is too big?

gim wrote:

I would be interested in knowing what some former or current alumni of the other member MIAC schools think of this. Anyone?

Gustie and think it’s ridiculous. I was at GAC when UST was terrible and Caruso started. Any other program could have a similar ascension if they wanted to, they just don’t want to make the investment, it’s a lot easier to boot UST and bring the level down than to try and keep up.

I personally hate the move. UST won the conference title in a whopping total 3 of 12 men’s sports in the MIAC this last season. I’m not a big fan of penalizing an entire school’s sports programs because of their success. If enrollment is cited as the issue, is there some moratorium keeping other MIAC schools from expanding their program offerings and student populations? I’ve seen what they charge for tuition and what the alums donate to small private schools. Being content is great, but don’t complain while others grow.

Now regarding football specifically, Caurso is one of the more arrogant pricks to coach in all of Division 3 football. I have met him multiple times at clinics and have had former players play for him. He knows football (obviously) and can run a program like no other. His reputation of demoralizing bottom-feeder teams is what has created his negative reputation for many. A lot of this is stemming from the 2017 season where he CHOSE to put 97 points on St. Olaf and 84 on Hamline. That is a move that will never be forgotten. In football there are so many things you can do to prevent that from happening. Does 97-0 prove you are more of a man calling plays and managing your team than 62-0 does?

UST has 0 national championships which puts them nowhere near the conversation of Mount Union or Whitewater. I follow the WIAC pretty carefully and although it is a far more competitive conference top to bottom than the MIAC, Whitewater has never made the CHOICE to do what Caruso does to some of the MIAC bottom feeders.

buckybadger wrote:

A lot of this is stemming from the 2017 season where he CHOSE to put 97 points on St. Olaf and 84 on Hamline. That is a move that will never be forgotten. In football there are so many things you can do to prevent that from happening. Does 97-0 prove you are more of a man calling plays and managing your team than 62-0 does?

I agree that is inexcusable, but you can only do so much when you can only travel 2 deep. And SJU and the hallowed John Gagliardi do the same thing. New coach Fasching put a 98-0 beating on St Scholastica. In 2003 we played SJU under Gagliardi and kept it closer than it should have been, but the Johnnies were up 35-14 late in the 4th quarter and ran a fake punt to convert a 4th down. All of it is bush league imo, but still doesn’t mean anyone needs to get the boot.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
A lot of this is stemming from the 2017 season where he CHOSE to put 97 points on St. Olaf and 84 on Hamline. That is a move that will never be forgotten. In football there are so many things you can do to prevent that from happening. Does 97-0 prove you are more of a man calling plays and managing your team than 62-0 does?

I agree that is inexcusable, but you can only do so much when you can only travel 2 deep. And SJU and the hallowed John Gagliardi do the same thing. New coach Fasching put a 98-0 beating on St Scholastica. In 2003 we played SJU under Gagliardi and kept it closer than it should have been, but the Johnnies were up 35-14 late in the 4th quarter and ran a fake punt to convert a 4th down. All of it is bush league imo, but still doesn’t mean anyone needs to get the boot.

I’m going to go ahead and disagree adamantly as a high school coach. 90+ points?!? Think about how many touchdowns that is. FB dive and trap plays with kids out of position can eat up a lot of time and downs in a hurry without points.

I can see 62-0 or something like that, but another 30+ points on top of that? No way. That’s simply saying we are better than you and have no care in the world about how bad this ends up.

Again – I’m not a fan of kicking UST out whatsoever. However, I can see why Caruso has a urine poor reputation with other coaches.

buckybadger wrote:

I’m going to go ahead and disagree adamantly as a high school coach. 90+ points?!?

I’m not sure what you are disagreeing with, I called it inexcusable and bush league. UST was on the road for their blowouts, and if you’re 2nd teamers are still able to score at will would you rather have them take a knee? The Johnnies put 98 on Scholastica AT HOME and still didn’t get to the 200th player on the bench, which is worse imo, but again both are inexcusable. And ol Gagliardi ran it up on regular occasion but no one regards him as bush league (and yes I’m just partially trying to get Ralph going)…

I disagree about running up the score – figure out a way to stop the other team. These are college athletes not peewee’s. There is no reason to protect them.

I’ll buy the argument for younger ages where a mercy rule makes sense but not at the college level.

Hamline hockey alum here. I think it’s good for St Thomas if they can move up to division 2 for football and baseball. They have the facilities to compete on that level with those schools and there’s opportunities for scholarships at that level. As for hockey there is no division 2 so they would have to go division 1 and I don’t see that happening. They can still play the Johnnies if they want from a d2 schedule and I think that the school has grown out of the miac which is a testament to their great athletic programs. Take the next step in football and baseball.

BigWerm wrote:

(and yes I’m just partially trying to get Ralph going)

I’m not taking the bait.

kabefisherman11 wrote:

Take the next step in football and baseball.

The NCAA no longer allows picking and choosing of divisions by sport i.e. you’re either D2 in every sport or D1 in every sport. Schools have been grandfathered in, but going forward, this is the case.

Reply deleted

Ralph yep I know they can’t pick and choose but hockey doesn’t have a division 2 and so i know they would be able to go division 2 in all sports except hockey.

I’ve gotten at least 3 emails from UST about this. Can someone explain what happened for someone who doesn’t understand what is going on at all?

tindall wrote:

I’ve gotten at least 3 emails from UST about this. Can someone explain what happened for someone who doesn’t understand what is going on at all?

Basically St. Olaf Prez rallied the other terrible athletic schools (Carleton, Macalester, St Kate’s, St. Mary’s, Hamline) and told the league either St. Thomas gets the boot or we all leave and destroy the conference. St. Thomas, Concordia and St. Johns were opposed to it, and GAC and Bethel didn’t come out strongly one way or another, so rather than destroy the conference they kicked St. Thomas out for being too good at too many sports and investing too much more than the rest of the league in athletics. Supposedly this also had a lot to do with academics as UST has added a nursing program and law school which competed directly with Hamline Law, and St Kates/Mary’s nursing schools. (I may have the schools allegiance slightly off, but think that’s correct.)

wormdunker wrote:

I cant read the article because I have REACHED my LIMIT.

Do you have another Web Browser on your Computer/Tablet?
If so, read the article there, you get another up to the limit views.

Not sure what limit is anymore as I subscribe, as I go by “Keep your Friends Close and your Enemies Closer” to know what they’re doing. but, then as a News Junkie, I subscribe to 5 papers and a few other outlets.

delete my duplicate post

St Thomas has been invited to join the Summit League. This conference is D-1 AA in most athletics and includes other schools such as Denver, NDSU, UND, SDSU, etc.

In the end, I think this will be a good move for St. Thomas. I’m an alum, and my oldest son swam for St Olaf. St. Olaf dominated the conference in swimming/diving for a couple decades…then St. Thomas had a donor put in a new pool. It’s gorgeous and better than anything anyone else (except may Macalaster) has by a mile. It attracts the top swimmers/divers – no doubt. But, their teams are so big that many students never get to compete at the “varsity” level. That is a lot of practice…then you don’t get to actually compete. For instance, at conference relays St Olaf and Carelton and Macalaster and Hamline would each have 2 mens relay teams (8 swimmers total). St Thomas would have 8-10 teams (32-40 swimmers total). St. Thomas has won the conference for many years in a row now – it isn’t even close.

Plus, St. Thomas has nowhere close to the academic standards for admission as many of the other schools in the conference. That means the athletic teams have more students to choose from. We looked at St Johns, St Olaf, Gustavus, and St. Thomas with my oldest son…so I’m familiar with their standards for admission.

I think having more and better competition will be good for St. Thomas. I can’t believe that beating up inferior teams by 70-90+ points does much to improve your team…not much of a challenge.

Scott

The story I heard through folks connected to UST athletics is that St. Thomas has been looking to leave the MIAC for a while and move up to D1, wanted to control the narrative. Other schools were on board with them leaving, let the Tommies put it out that they were being booted out. The Summit League extended them the invitation to join, St. Thomas leverage that and its expulsion from the MIAC to get a waiver to the NCAA mandatory stay at D2 prior to moving to D1.

Good luck to them!

Brad Dimond wrote:

The Summit League extended them the invitation to join, St. Thomas leverage that and its expulsion from the MIAC to get a waiver to the NCAA mandatory stay at D2 prior to moving to D1

The waiver has not been granted by the NCAA yet, unless it happened in the past couple of hours.