Mandatory masks!?

mplspug wrote:

I wear a seatbelt to survive a crash, not to protect the other people involved in the crash.

I where one because that F@#*ing chime won’t stop chiming

eyeguy507 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mplspug wrote:</div>
I wear a seatbelt to survive a crash, not to protect the other people involved in the crash.

I where one because that F@#*ing chime won’t stop chiming

Ha, you can probably silence that

Keep it simple and don’t wear one. Its very simple. Those of us still in the real world don’t wear one, except for a Menards trip and that is rare for me.

If you don’t like being out where people are that don’t use a mask, then stay home. You can order everything online these days and have it delivered to your house.

People need to realize the sky is not falling and this is not the end of civilization. The Media has gotten this into a political situation.

“MUSCATINE, Iowa (KCRG) —
In Muscatine on Monday, a mask mandate took effect requiring residents to wear a face covering in all public, indoor and outdoor spaces.

The Muscatine Police Department is taking a pause before enforcing the new mask rule.

“When we’re tasked with the enforcement of mandates, and so forth, we obviously have to figure out where our legal ground is and protect ourselves and the city from further civil liability, should there be some out of enforcement action. So that’s kind of where we are cautious with it,” Capt. Steve Snider, of the Muscatine Police Department, said.

Reynolds said she doesn’t believe it’s appropriate for Iowa’s cities and counties to issue mask mandates, but she may be open to allowing it.
The governor said it isn’t appropriate for cities and counties to do that right now because they don’t have the authority under her disaster proclamation.”

I was trying to find where Gov. Reynolds stated that a city has no jurisdiction over a states CDC guidelines but it was stated by her.
Maybe MN has no policy on this?? <img src="//www.in-depthoutdoors.com/wp-content/smilies/icon_confused.gif" alt="???" class=”wp-smiley” />

My 2cents.

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The land of the free and the home of the brave is long gone. Replaced by the parents who put helmets on their children when they ride training wheel bicycles.

They are not content living silently in their own anxiety.

They must impose their fears upon EVERYONE. By force if necessary.

And this is just another incremental step in the progression. Their fear will always expand. It will get worse.

tindall wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
Wearing the seat belt does nothing to protect others. Its there to protect yourself.

This is simply not true. Anyone who has been a first responder long enough has likely seen some dead people with teeth in the back of their skull. Less likely, but still very possible is being killed by someone beside you in a rollover or side impact.

I am a lot of meat to sling unrestrained around a metal box. You would not want to be in that box.

Come on now. The main reason is to keep the person who is wearing the seatbelt from hitting the dash or being tossed from the vehicle.

I agree that people who spend a lot of time indoors at the same place for an extended period of time need to wear masks, like say grocery store employees.

Otherwise I think it should be an individuals choice. I work from home and don’t have much contact with people at all. On the weekends I might go to a bar and grill patio once in a while. I might spend a total of 45 minutes at the grocery/liquor store spread between 2 or 3 trips each week. When I am in public I am conscience of keeping a distance between me and others. I wash my hands like I always did. I am not wearing a mask for the sake of wearing a mask.

I wear a mask when required. I wore a mask to get blood drawn for the antibody test, even though it wasn’t required, out of respect of the lady who was 2′ from me drawing blood.

MPLSPUG You are correct, its the smart thing to do. All we have to do is look around the country and see the infection rate . It’s not good ! New record infection rates being set means its not being taken seriously by many. It’s really simply just wear the mask to protect yourself and others . I think some equate wearing a mask to getting on a train to Auschwitz ?!

To clarify, when I say I am not wearing a mask for the sake of wearing a mask…I am not wearing a mask.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of mask wearers are actually spreading the virus, because they wear the mask but then are not cognizant of all the other things they are doing wrong. Impossible to prove, but I know humans.

mplspug wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of mask wearers are actually spreading the virus, because they wear the mask but then are not cognizant of all the other things they are doing wrong. Impossible to prove, but I know humans.

No doubt about it because you see how many people put them on incorrectly, take them off incorrectly, or touch the inside of their mask, etc. Makes the whole point of the mask a moot point. Can’t fix stupid

I read this the other day, so it’s not mine.
MASK IT OR CASKET-your choice. I will do what ever it takes to make myself and other people safer.

mplspug wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of mask wearers are actually spreading the virus, because they wear the mask but then are not cognizant of all the other things they are doing wrong. Impossible to prove, but I know humans.

Possible. And here I promised myself I wasn’t going to discuss masks for a while.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

gimruis wrote:

Makes the whole point of the mask a moot point. Can’t fix stupid

That’s damn crass. Masks are something being thrust on society and are for the most part foreign to a whole lot [most] of the people. Being unaccustomed to a new part of daily dress does not constitute stupid.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

That’s damn crass. Masks are something being thrust on society and are for the most part foreign to a whole lot [most] of the people. Being unaccustomed to a new part of daily dress does not constitute stupid.

Yes, I agree but when you don’t do it correctly, it kind of ruins the concept because then viral particles are on their hands and their hands touch all kinds of things. I know how to put one on and take it off correctly, but a lot of people don’t.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mplspug wrote:</div>
I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of mask wearers are actually spreading the virus, because they wear the mask but then are not cognizant of all the other things they are doing wrong. Impossible to prove, but I know humans.

Possible. And here I promised myself I wasn’t going to discuss masks for a while.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

That was from 2015. They had a follow up in March

It is important to note that some subjects in the control arm wore surgical masks, which could explain why cloth masks performed poorly compared to the control group. We also did an analysis of all mask wearers, and the higher infection rate in cloth mask group persisted. The cloth masks may have been worse in our study because they were not washed well enough – they may become damp and contaminated. The cloth masks used in our study were products manufactured locally, and fabrics can vary in quality. This and other limitations were also discussed.
…
There have been a number of laboratory studies looking at the effectiveness of different types of cloth materials, single versus multiple layers and about the role that filters can play. However, none have been tested in a clinical trial for efficacy. If health workers choose to work using cloth masks, we suggest that they have at least two and cycle them, so that each one can be washed and dried after daily use. Sanitizer spray or UV disinfection boxes can be used to clean them during breaks in a single day. These are pragmatic, rather than evidence-based suggestions, given the situation.

b-curtis wrote:

It is important to note that some subjects in the control arm wore surgical masks, which could explain why cloth masks performed poorly compared to the control group. We also did an analysis of all mask wearers, and the higher infection rate in cloth mask group persisted. The cloth masks may have been worse in our study because they were not washed well enough – they may become damp and contaminated. The cloth masks used in our study were products manufactured locally, and fabrics can vary in quality. This and other limitations were also discussed.
…
There have been a number of laboratory studies looking at the effectiveness of different types of cloth materials, single versus multiple layers and about the role that filters can play. However, none have been tested in a clinical trial for efficacy. If health workers choose to work using cloth masks, we suggest that they have at least two and cycle them, so that each one can be washed and dried after daily use. Sanitizer spray or UV disinfection boxes can be used to clean them during breaks in a single day. These are pragmatic, rather than evidence-based suggestions, given the situation.

That’s a great follow up and I agree.

Where do you think a vast majority of these cloth masks are being made? How many mask makers are taking filtration into consideration? How many even wear them correctly? How many remove and handle them correctly? How many are washing and disinfecting them after every use. How many people use multiple masks?

The number of people following all those guidelines is probably less than 5%. Mandating masks won’t change that.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

Two questions for the anti-vaxxers, er- I mean the anti-maskers.

1) do you wear your seat belt when you are in a vehicle?

2) if yes, do you do it because it improves your chances at avoiding injuries in the event of a crash? Or do you do it because it’s a law?

Perhaps a better question would be: If this virus killed 100% of it’s victims, would you wear a mask?

-J.

Do you mean people and children that are forced to wear masks won’t be diligent to do it as they’re suppose to?

In church this past Sunday a family with 5 children were doing there best to wear masks. Those masks were all over the place. what should we expect from children? Let alone the public.

Such a mockery and a waste that causes so much fear and division.

So if the concern people have is that cloth masks aren’t good enough and people don’t wear them right, why not a massive effort to her higher quality masks in people’s hands and an education campaign to teach people how to do it right? Other countries have done it, are they smarter and more innovative than america? Since when did this country quit because things are too hard?

Fish To Escape wrote:

So if the concern people have is that cloth masks aren’t good enough and people don’t wear them right, why not a massive effort to her higher quality masks in people’s hands and an education campaign to teach people how to do it right? Other countries have done it, are they smarter and more innovative than america? Since when did this country quit because things are too hard?

Great point!

crappie55369 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fish To Escape wrote:</div>
So if the concern people have is that cloth masks aren’t good enough and people don’t wear them right, why not a massive effort to her higher quality masks in people’s hands and an education campaign to teach people how to do it right? Other countries have done it, are they smarter and more innovative than america? Since when did this country quit because things are too hard?

Great point!

Who’s holding the purse strings, and do they believe in masking in public?

If we had an adequate public health system, the surgical masks would be available for free and provided by mail order to anyone who wants them. The costs would be peanuts compared to all the other money getting thrown around lately.

South Korea started a program months ago to ensure everyone had access to KN95 masks and limited the profits on the sale to pennies per mask, seems like we could have done something similar. Meanwhile, as a healthcare provider dealing directly with covid patients, I am still re-using N95 masks and there are concerns that hospitals in the south are running short on them again with their increased spread

When will the anti maskers realize nothing will be back to normal and the economy will continue to slip until we get this thing under control? Take a look at the rest of the world to see how to handle this and get it under control. A bear hunt in Canada this spring… cancelled. A mountain goat hunt in BC this fall… likely cancelled. We have lost and continue to lose so many freedoms because of the poor handling of this thing. If wearing a mask is such a personal assault to your idea of freedom I feel bad for you because many of us value other things much more than our tiny ego. Maybe anti maskers are all just hoping this thing stretches out longer and they can get another Trump welfare check.

Fish To Escape wrote:

South Korea started a program months ago to ensure everyone had access to KN95 masks and limited the profits on the sale to pennies per mask, seems like we could have done something similar. Meanwhile, as a healthcare provider dealing directly with covid patients, I am still re-using N95 masks and there are concerns that hospitals in the south are running short on them again with their increased spread

I guess you know why we don’t have them then. only so many were made and only can be made so fast for the world.

Fish To Escape wrote:

So if the concern people have is that cloth masks aren’t good enough and people don’t wear them right, why not a massive effort to her higher quality masks in people’s hands and an education campaign to teach people how to do it right? Other countries have done it, are they smarter and more innovative than america? Since when did this country quit because things are too hard?

Because that angle isn’t controversial. Experts are indeed looking into this and publishing studies about filtration and sanitizing masks. They are largely ignored because the issue at hand is trying to prove that anything is better than nothing.

Dr. Osterholm, who doesn’t see a benefit in cloth masks is part of a study that will look at the efficacy of different types of masks to hopefully provide data develop something that can have the greatest impact. Most see him as some kind of science denying, anti-mask troll but most don’t listen to what he actually has to say.

cmn wrote:

When will the anti maskers realize nothing will be back to normal and the economy will continue to slip until we get this thing under control? Take a look at the rest of the world to see how to handle this and get it under control. A bear hunt in Canada this spring… cancelled. A mountain goat hunt in BC this fall… likely cancelled. We have lost and continue to lose so many freedoms because of the poor handling of this thing. If wearing a mask is such a personal assault to your idea of freedom I feel bad for you because many of us value other things much more than our tiny ego. Maybe anti maskers are all just hoping this thing stretches out longer and they can get another Trump welfare check.

there is the freedom thing………..and the whole part where they don’t prevent anything thing.

joe-winter wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fish To Escape wrote:</div>
South Korea started a program months ago to ensure everyone had access to KN95 masks and limited the profits on the sale to pennies per mask, seems like we could have done something similar. Meanwhile, as a healthcare provider dealing directly with covid patients, I am still re-using N95 masks and there are concerns that hospitals in the south are running short on them again with their increased spread

I guess you know why we don’t have them then. only so many were made and only can be made so fast for the world.

So America is not capable of getting or making masks? That is my question, it would be hard so we gave up and didn’t try?

so why has our country done so much worse than many other countries who require masks? I agree though they “don’t prevent anything thing” lol

cmn wrote:

so why has our country done so much worse than many other countries who require masks? I agree though they “don’t prevent anything thing” lol

im guessing your a troll with another name on here also being your first posts

Fish to Escape – As a HC pro I assume you understand the supply chain and normal inventory levels and why. Of course we are capable, that all costs time and money. We sent a lot of product overseas. materials for manufacturing were held up with shutdowns,etc. You don’t believe they are making them as fast as they can?

I think in the future you will see more private companies make N 95 for general public purchase, but at the moment they are going to HC only.