Local dentist kills lion

This isn’t just about the hunter. Stop and wonder just how a wild lion becomes a “local” icon. S”pose they [the locals] maybe have been buttering him up with some handouts over the years? Then imagine too, if you have an imagination, what we’d be reading if “Cecil”, the friendly devil he was [according to the locals], started dining on the same locals’ children or elderly? Or maybe if he’d hopped aboard one of the nice tourist busses and had lunch….repeatedly. I wonder what the media would write or comment on about that scenario? But in the end, wild lions do not befriend humans unless there is something that the lion wants offered to it. As in food. So if bait was legal and offered, is it surprising that this animal would show up? The people around him conditioned the animal to come to offered food. Any blame there at all?

It was only a year ago at this time when a few wolf pups were seen begging for food along a rural blacktop road in the Two Harbors area. The wolf parents put the pups in that area to wait for them as the parents hunted. People passing by in cars noticed the pups and began coaxing them out in the open for photo ops using food. It didn’t take long for those pups to relate food and motor vehicles. On a winter drive thru Death Valley a couple years back we saw a pair of coyotes and hoped they’d stay in the spot where we saw them to get a picture, but instead they ran right up to the truck door and sat down waiting for treats to come out the window. When food didn’t show they just sort of wandered off.

These situations are not created by hunters, but the media doesn’t mention this because the people creating the issues with these animals are as guilty of killing if one should die as a person using a leashed, live goat to draw an animal into shooting range. So until the media decides to put focus on the beginning of the issue and how it affects the outcome its only this dentist that gets rifled. I think he’s a dumb a$$ going after a lion with an arrow. And if he was convicted of or pled guilty of illegally taking a bear, then the reciprocity laws don’t reach far enough. But the media is responsible for what’s happening to this poor schmuck right now and this can be likened to the recent riots in many locations because what has happened gets inflamed by the media. I have said it before and it needs saying again, every item of the constitution has been amended except the first. If the first were amended only to make the media report ONLY TRUTHS and be openly accountable for sources, this world we live in would be a whole lot better than what we have today. As far as I am concerned, they can track this ugliness back to whoever it was that skewed the information in the first place and feed him/her to the rest of the lions in the pack as a tribute to Cecil.

Why does it matter that he’s a dentist? What does that have to do with it?

Tom, a big part of the story is the lion lived in a refuge/preserve. I doubt he’d be getting handouts. I believe lions also scavenge other animals kills, so baiting may not be the best wording. They allegedly were luring him.

mplspug wrote:

They allegedly were luring him.

Not proof. All this based on maybe? Its all media and you’re stepping right into it.

I would rather hear about a famous lion getting killed than another human beheading by isis.

It’s getting ridiculous. Facts need to come out. I saw a headline getting passed around facebook yesterday that read “Local dentist travels halfway across world only to slaughter beloved local lion.” Headlines like that need to stop and are only making this worse.

Until the facts come out, right now I feel sorry for the guy. His address, numbers, and even his wife and daughters name and number are being passed around facebook. His reputation is ruined and he may have a hard time getting dentist patients back.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

Not proof. All this based on maybe? Its all media and you’re stepping right into it.

You don’t understand the meaning of allegedly?

mplspug wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tom Sawvell wrote:</div>
Not proof. All this based on maybe? Its all media and you’re stepping right into it.

You don’t understand the meaning of allegedly?

YOU CAN’T PROVE THAT!

I understand that there’s no proof that he’s guilty of anything at this point and that any charges now certainly won’t render a fair verdict. And as for getting any FACTS to work with now, your media buddies have diluted things so badly that the whole thing may as well be dropped and put a sign on the desert “don’t feed the lions”

And for your knowing the meaning of allegedly…..

Webster defines allege as: 1. to declare or assert without proof; or 2. to offer as an excuse.

Alleged is defined as: 1. declared but without proof; or 2. not actual, so called.

Right from the book.

…..this is exactly what I have been saying, so no I am not at all confused. What I am is fed up with the media inflaming stuff to the point of being dangerous for people. The media started the riots and the media has now put heads in harms way that had nothing whatever to do with this fiasco. Yada, yada, yada, the prick shot a lion MAYBE using questionable practices in an area of Africa where lions are fed by locals to keep them handy for photo sessions. So change dentists if you have a hard-on for him. He paid for a legal hunt and assumed that what was being done was legal. Its hard to mount a lions head without the friggin head to take accurate measurements and unlike fish a carbon copy isn’t available. The hunter didn’t bait the animals. His family had nothing to do with this. Yet his whole family is in danger because of facebook, twitter, youtube, new radio, the tv and the newspapers torching every bity of proof as they move ahead on this witch hunt they created. And nobody is smart enough to say hold on a damned minute….show your sources or shut up.

I said it before and will again. Fish caught in nets are suffocating. They slowly choke to death. But does the media flame those who are guilty of the practice? Oh no….special interests might lay siege to the newspaper with lawsuits. The media is pretty darned good at picking and choosing items, not of interest but rather those that will boil emotions, and go wild with un-founded innuendo. All these loose media lips in this generation are going to sink this country. Instead of looking to box this dork and his family this country should be demanding the media disclose their so called sources…..then figure out if he’s in the wrong or not.

On the news last night there were pickets saying that trophy hunting is wrong. Maybe a little bird let it out that a SE Minnesota group of archers want to grow big antlered deer just for their heads, meat secondarily. Maybe create another Minnesota animal killing related fiasco, eh?

Sharon wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>KwickStick wrote:</div>
You sort of want it both ways, Sharon…

Well, now there is a difference. I enjoy a good discussion, not a pitch-fork induced rant spewing word vomit at random. And it seems like the media fuels that kind of response! Some people are yelling for Palmer to be brought back to Africa to be hanged, some want HIM hunted by lions. That’s ridiculousness.

I agree with what you’re saying here. I just sensed that you were not wanting to hear opinions on this discussion right here. Sorry if I read you wrong.

In my personal opinion which may be wrong, I do believe he knew what was going on. That’s my opinion, and I’m entitled to it until it’s settled otherwise.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

I understand that there’s no proof that he’s guilty of anything at this point and that any charges now certainly won’t render a fair verdict. And as for getting any FACTS to work with now, your media buddies have diluted things so badly that the whole thing may as well be dropped and put a sign on the desert “don’t feed the lions”

And for your knowing the meaning of allegedly…..

Webster defines allege as: 1. to declare or assert without proof; or 2. to offer as an excuse.

Alleged is defined as: 1. declared but without proof; or 2. not actual, so called.

Right from the book.

…..this is exactly what I have been saying, so no I am not at all confused. What I am is fed up with the media inflaming stuff to the point of being dangerous for people. The media started the riots and the media has now put heads in harms way that had nothing whatever to do with this fiasco. Yada, yada, yada, the prick shot a lion MAYBE using questionable practices in an area of Africa where lions are fed by locals to keep them handy for photo sessions. So change dentists if you have a hard-on for him. He paid for a legal hunt and assumed that what was being done was legal. Its hard to mount a lions head without the friggin head to take accurate measurements and unlike fish a carbon copy isn’t available. The hunter didn’t bait the animals. His family had nothing to do with this. Yet his whole family is in danger because of facebook, twitter, youtube, new radio, the tv and the newspapers torching every bity of proof as they move ahead on this witch hunt they created. And nobody is smart enough to say hold on a damned minute….show your sources or shut up.

I said it before and will again. Fish caught in nets are suffocating. They slowly choke to death. But does the media flame those who are guilty of the practice? Oh no….special interests might lay siege to the newspaper with lawsuits. The media is pretty darned good at picking and choosing items, not of interest but rather those that will boil emotions, and go wild with un-founded innuendo. All these loose media lips in this generation are going to sink this country. Instead of looking to box this dork and his family this country should be demanding the media disclose their so called sources…..then figure out if he’s in the wrong or not.

On the news last night there were pickets saying that trophy hunting is wrong. Maybe a little bird let it out that a SE Minnesota group of archers want to grow big antlered deer just for their heads, meat secondarily. Maybe create another Minnesota animal killing related fiasco, eh?

damn Tom.i agree with ya 100%!!!!!!!!!!

Apart from the media hype, I also still have a problem believing this guy spent $50,000 for an african lion hunt and knew nothing about a 13 year old black maned, male lion named Cecil that lived in a game reserve in the immediate area where he was hunting.

No doubt there are plenty of facts that need to come out for anyone to know one way or the other, but this guys history isn’t helping him any either. And yes, history does matter in a case such as this.

The amount of attention this is getting is out of control. I find myself on the side of the dentist by default. **** cecil.

This wasn’t this guy’s first rodeo. He’s been on several big game hunts. IF illegal means we’re used I’m pretty sure he was aware of it.

I think the global outrage is social media snowballing run amuck. Hell, Jimmy Kimmel had a tear in his eye over it during his monologue.

I’m a little more concerned with the heads of humans being chopped off than this lion. People love a reason to hold a sign.

I had two cents burning a hole in my pocket…

Ok, they may or may not have lured him out with bait.

Some rich American does something heinous in a foreign country and then comes home and claims ignorance. Well I never…

Alright, I’m half kidding. The more I think about it though the more I just don’t believe this guy.

And as for why this story is getting so much attention compared to all the other terrible things happening out there today. Well, it’s different. Do you want newscasts to be an hour long list of every human that was wronged or died because of murder, rape, DUI, war, etc? It would literally be the exact same story every day. It’s terrible, don’t get me wrong, I wish none of those things would ever happen, but they do happen, extremely frequently.

How many times does a collared lion, who is known around the world get killed in an potentially inhumane and illegal way?

And don’t take this the wrong way, but there are an estimated 7 billion people in the world and an estimated 30,000 lions in Africa.

The facts that the animal was skinned, beheaded, the carcass was left to rot and the radio transmitter was intentionally damaged to try and disable it says all I need to know… hard to argue about those facts…

My issue is mostly with his total lack of respect for the animal and the sport of hunting in general.

I completely agree with the ridiculousness of the candle light vigils and people leaving flowers at his office, they are simply looking for attention imo… plenty of other much more important issues they should be fighting for in the world..

Where’s the media for this?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b22_1368624011

Ok. Its only a goat.

mplspug wrote:

Ok, they may or may not have lured him out with bait.

But how is this different than baiting black bears for a hunt? Or (less extreme) but using a buzz bait on the MN/Canadian boarder to lure a fish across the boarder from where you can catch it and where you cant?

I am not a hunter, but my college roommate got a bear tag and was constantly running up to make sure they had bait out all summer so it would be there when the season opened. This is legal, correct?

JoeMX1825 wrote:

The facts that the animal was skinned, beheaded, the carcass was left to rot and the radio transmitter was intentionally damaged to try and disable it says all I need to know… hard to argue about those facts…

These are facts or this is what the media reported? I am pretty sure it was skinned and beheaded, that’s the trophy part of the trophy hunt he paid for. The carcass left to rot and the radio transmitter was intentionally damaged to try and disable could be speculation.

From what I have read, baiting is legal in Africa. Originally I was addressing the notion that the lion was being fed by people.

glenn57 wrote:

damn Tom.i agree with ya 100%!!!!!!!!!!

Tom, you hit many nails on many heads. I love the passion in your writing!
You all bring up so many good points. It would be interesting to see how all of this unfolds. Unfortunately, all we get from the media is bloated crap that they think makes for a good story. It’s all about ratings and little facts. Who’d’ve thought the information age could be so factless? I don’t think that’s a word, but I’m okay with it.

Im with Grouse on this one….

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Another example of Pitchfork Nation whereby the entire world feels entitled to rush to judgment based on few or no facts.

My thoughts on the situation are that I’ll be waiting for actual facts to be brought forward before having any thoughts on the situation.

The central question here is was Palmer aware of what was being done to lure this animal in and was he aware that this was illegal?

For those of you not familiar with how hunting is conducted (generally speaking) in Africa, it is the job of the Professional Hunter (PH), who is himself a trained and licensed professional, to secure all licenses and permits for all animals taken by the visiting hunter. In many cases the documents and permits that the PH has are written in the local language and are incomprehensible even if you could read them.

Hunting in Africa is nothing like hunting here in the US where you secure your own licenses and are responsible for understanding and abiding by all the regulations.

It is EXTREMELY difficult or impossible for the visiting hunter to look over the PH’s shoulder in Africa and try to verify that what the PH is telling you is correct and that he is in bounds as far as abiding by regulations. It comes down to reputation and trust, when the PH tells you that you can hunt and take a certain animal, in a certain area, and under a given set of conditions, the visiting hunter basically has to trust that this in correct and legal.

I’m not defending anyone or making excuses for what may or may not have happened. I’m just addressing the presumption that seems to be out there that this individual “must have known” what he was doing was illegal. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. Facts are needed before anyone can make that judgment.

Grouse

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Another example of Pitchfork Nation whereby the entire world feels entitled to rush to judgment based on few or no facts.

My thoughts on the situation are that I’ll be waiting for actual facts to be brought forward before having any thoughts on the situation.

The central question here is was Palmer aware of what was being done to lure this animal in and was he aware that this was illegal?

For those of you not familiar with how hunting is conducted (generally speaking) in Africa, it is the job of the Professional Hunter (PH), who is himself a trained and licensed professional, to secure all licenses and permits for all animals taken by the visiting hunter. In many cases the documents and permits that the PH has are written in the local language and are incomprehensible even if you could read them.

Hunting in Africa is nothing like hunting here in the US where you secure your own licenses and are responsible for understanding and abiding by all the regulations.

It is EXTREMELY difficult or impossible for the visiting hunter to look over the PH’s shoulder in Africa and try to verify that what the PH is telling you is correct and that he is in bounds as far as abiding by regulations. It comes down to reputation and trust, when the PH tells you that you can hunt and take a certain animal, in a certain area, and under a given set of conditions, the visiting hunter basically has to trust that this in correct and legal.

I’m not defending anyone or making excuses for what may or may not have happened. I’m just addressing the presumption that seems to be out there that this individual “must have known” what he was doing was illegal. Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. Facts are needed before anyone can make that judgment.

Grouse

mplspug wrote:

From what I have read, baiting is legal in Africa. Originally I was addressing the notion that the lion was being fed by people.

Lions don’t just happen along and fall in like with humans. They have to be acclimated to humans and food is the way its done. In may areas where natives have food or milk animals lions are fed at a distance to help keep them from zeroing in on their animals. Old animals, weak or sick animals…you can bet that they’d be taken out of a healthy herd in a heartbeat because lions can sense those animals and once a pride of lions find easy pickings in a domestic herd they won’t pay much attention to who is sick or lame if subsequent feeding don’t happen and then there’s the chance too that the pride will move along and find natural prey..

Its already been stated that this particular pride of lions were relied upon for tourist dollars. They did get collared and chained at night so they pretty much could go wherever they wanted to find food like a pride 100 miles away. But you can bet that this pride was kept happy by feeding them routinely, hence their hanging around. If bait was used, those cats can smell it a long ways off and will do as they have become accustomed to doing…..coming right in to the food even if human scent is all over it.

There are as many issues surrounding how the natives managed the cats as there are surrounding how the media has blown this way out of line.

This is getting out of hand. And where was all this passion for animals when Michael Vick was cought fighting dogs? He did a little time and now he’s back playing in the nfl. There are much more important things to get fired up over like that record flathead that got away

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There wasn’t an uproar with Vick?

From what I have read/heard, I do not fault the shooter. Look at it this way… you go to a race track, where they have a thrill ride option. You pay the $500 and go through the safety classes, get strapped in the car and start driving. After a couple laps, the cops pull you over for speeding…? Are you guilty ? Oh yeah, you also have a prior speeding conviction on a real hwy

catnip wrote:

This is getting out of hand. And where was all this passion for animals when Michael Vick was cought fighting dogs? He did a little time and now he’s back playing in the nfl.

There was a huge uproar over Vick, it was everywhere. And he actually served time in prison for his crimes.

It followed him into the NFL for a long time.

They will milk this guy for all they can then send him back home. What a waste of resources all the way around. Part of me wonders if the US Govt should be siding with foreign governments against its own citizens on such a paltry charge.

Actual facts are starting to emerge and, as facts are wont to do, they paint a picture that’s a little different from the social media firestorm.

Zimbabwe officials today finally admitted that a lion hunting permit was legally issued for the area adjacent to the park to the professional hunter Theo Bronkhorst, the PH who guided Walter Palmer when he killed the lion in question.

So much for the allegations that this is a case of poaching and that the lion was killed without a legal permit.

Interestingly, Zimbabwe officials also continue to deliver mixed messages on if it is, in fact, illegal to kill a radio-collared animal in Zimbabwe (assuming all other aspects of the hunt are legal).

As usual, the truth is so simple if your only sources of facts are Twatter and Facebook.

Grouse