So my 4-year-old lead acid TM batteries are having a tough time holding a charge so I’m thinking of going the lithium battery route this time. I have a 24v motor and I think it is 72lbs of force. What I can’t decide is if I want to go with two 50ah or two 100ah batteries. I know that latter will be plenty of power.
I’d love to hear some real life experiences for anyone that has two 50ah bats running their 24v TM. Do you ever run out of juice? If you do run out, how long and strong are you running your motor?
Lastly, does anyone run into issues charging in subfreezing temps? I’ve heard if you insulate your battery box you will be able to charge when the air temp is below 32′
You might want to check to see if your chargers can support lithium. I recently checked mine to see if they will be compatible with a lithium and all of them were not. They are only to be used with lead acid or AGM.
You might want to check to see if your chargers can support lithium. I recently checked mine to see if they will be compatible with a lithium and all of them were not. They are only to be used with lead acid or AGM.
Yep, it looks as though my Minnkota charger won’t work, so that will be another expense
Conditions will vary, but I have a similar set up with x2 100 ah lithium batts and an 80# terrova. Simply put, the SLA’s usually needed charging daily under steady use. I don’t have a meter, but I was getting 3+ days per charge last season with the lithiums. Never did find their limit though.
I did replace my Minnkota charger as gim said may be needed too.
There are single 24v batteries available. If you want to simplify your batteries. I went with a single 24v100ah battery this winter. From what I have saw so far it is much more battery then I need. But on the other side it will be great for weekend camping trips on the river.
There are single 24v batteries available. If you want to simplify your batteries. I went with a single 24v100ah battery this winter. From what I have saw so far it is much more battery then I need. But on the other side it will be great for weekend camping trips on the river.
I’ve looked at them, but I don’t think it would fit in my battery compartment.
I’ve looked at them, but I don’t think it would fit in my battery compartment.
This has been hashed out recently on a thread under lithium batteries if you care to look. Been considering all the options also. There are ones made to fit there are even ones the size of a single 24 series battery. I want to eventually replace my front tm battery with a single 24 volt and then used the other tm battery spot in the rear to be a exclusive electronics battery then freeing up the starter battery for just that.
The Dakota lithium thread has some valuable info in it. According to a couple posts in that thread. Be weary of the 24 or 36 volt batteries. If you have to wake the battery up it could be a pain.
According to that thread a Minn Kota PC charger will charge lithium batteries.
Switched to lithiums this spring…Impulse 120AH starting batt with internal heater and two Inpulse 100AH 12V TM batts hooked in series. All have Bluetooth. Replaced my MK on-board charger and DC on-the-fly charger with a single Power Pole Charge that does it all. Shed probably 130lbs off the boat and gained 2-3mph at WOT.
The system amazes me every time out and I have no regrets. As an example, I fished seven hours earlier this week. Checking my battery status upon arriving home, the TM batts each had 98% of their full charge left, while the starting batt had 81%. This is typical of the performance I’m seeing.
Was this an expensive set-up? Yes, but with a 10-year warranty I figured this was a long term investment, particularly when compared to the cost and effort of changing lead batts every three or four seasons.
It’s a no-brainer, but you gotta be prepared to open up the pocketbook.
I have a 24v motor and I think it is 72lbs of force. What I can’t decide is if I want to go with two 50ah or two 100ah batteries. I know that latter will be plenty of power.
This is essentially the exact same amount of capacity. When you run two 24V 50 Ah batteries in parallel the voltage stays the same and you add the capacity of both batteries which will equal 100Ah of capacity.
When you run two 12V 100ah batteries in series the voltage increases from 12V to 24V and the capacity stays the same. So, you’re at 100Ah of capacity.
A Norsk 24V – 50Ah battery actually delivers 57 – 58 Ah of capacity. I’ve tested a bunch of them on high end test equipment and I’ve never seen one deliver less than 57Ah so they’re pretty stout and definitely understate the capacity a bit. https://norsklithium.com/product/50ah-24v-lithium-battery-lifepo4-guardian/
I’ll attach a couple pics of the Norsk 24V 50Ah battery alongside a Norsk 12V 100 Ah battery. Both batteries are the exact same size – Group 27 case.
Lastly, does anyone run into issues charging in subfreezing temps? I’ve heard if you insulate your battery box you will be able to charge when the air temp is below 32′
Insulation doesn’t produce heat, it just slows heat loss. If you fish early and late in the season I’d highly recommend getting a lithium that offers internal heating. Nothing over the last two years has sold more Norsk Lithium heated batteries than tournaments held where the anglers experienced frigid overnight temps. The big walleye tournament on the Detroit River last spring was a prime example. There was lots of big , fancy boats with lithium batteries that didn’t charge over night in the cold leaving them SOL come start time the next morning!
Norsk offers a slick heated option, Thermal Core Heating, on their 100Ah and 80Ah 12V batteries and will be rolling out this feature into their 24V, 36V and 180Ah Starting + House battery this summer. What Thermal Core Heating does is divert the incoming current from the charger at the start of a recharge cycle and utilize that current to generate gentle heat in multiple heat pads surrounding the cells. Once the temp of the cells rises to a safe charging temp the current is diverted by the BMS back to the cells and the charging of the cells resumes normally.
I’ve personally tested Thermal Core Heating down to -2 F. and it takes about 35 minutes to get the batteries warmed up to the point where the charge cycle takes place. The best thing about this system is you can monitor it all in the Norsk Guardian App so you know exactly what’s going on. If you fish Green Bay, Rainy River, Mississippi River, Missouri River, etc., in the spring or do late full muskie fishing or want the ability to charge batteries in your boat during the winter you’ll never regret spending the extra $50/battery that it costs above an unheated battery.
The other thing I recommend looking at is the monitoring and diagnostic tools offered by the battery manufacturer. Everyone has a Bluetooth app. Most of them are completely inadequate when it comes to managing a multi-battery setup given most apps can only monitor a single battery at a time. Connect to one battery, see its status, log out. Login to the next battery. Repeat. It really doesn’t provide useful info if you want to know the status, aggregate state of charge SOC, and runtime of a GROUP of batteries like is commonly run by anglers powering a 24V or 36V system.
Here’s some info on the Norsk Guardian App.
If anyone has questions about Norsk Lithium specifically or lithium batteries in general give me a shout. I’ll be happy to help. Or call Norsk Lithium customer service at 612.400.3477 and you can talk to Jake Hals. I think one thing you’ll notice right off is Norsk Customer Service is exceptional… we actually answer / return calls and emails where others… not so much.
The system amazes me every time out and I have no regrets. As an example, I fished seven hours earlier this week. Checking my battery status upon arriving home, the TM batts each had 98% of their full charge left, while the starting batt had 81%. This is typical of the performance I’m seeing.
Brian – your BMS needs to be calibrated. We see this commonly when we help owners of “other” lithium batteries figure out why their batteries went dead at 40% – 50% state of charge remaining. Think about it this way, for a battery monitoring tool to be meaningful it has to be accurate. And if you used your (2) 100ah batteries rigged in series to produce a battery group at 24V and 100Ah of capacity if your app is showing a 98% of charge at the end of the day that means your batteries only delivered 2 amps from each battery after a full day’s use. That’s highly unlikely unless you spent the entire day anchored.
The resolution we’ve seen that has worked best to resolve this issue is to completely discharge your batteries down to your low voltage cut-off point which will typically be in the 10V – 10.5V range. Then recharge fully. What this does is allow the BMS to get a sense for true 0% State of charge on the bottom end and a true 100% SOC on the top end. Once this is done it is common, certainly not guaranteed, for the battery monitoring to come back into alignment and produce accurate results.
Have any of you guys who have switched to lithium in light aluminum boats had any problems in big water? I have a 1750 Rebel and I worry about losing that weight front and center with a fat guy plus a kicker motor hanging on the transom. Seems like the weight of those AGMs’ would help in this situation. Cutting through waves.
Thx James. Will do. My assumption was that the PP Charge system was re-charging the TM batts while on-the-fly.
That certainly could be the case if you’re making long runs. During those runs you should be able to monitor charge amps each battery is receiving to double check. That said, the calibration issue I detailed above is very, very common. People think their lithium battery are magic… until they’re not.
Have any of you guys who have switched to lithium in light aluminum boats had any problems in big water? I have a 1750 Rebel and I worry about losing that weight front and center with a fat guy plus a kicker motor hanging on the transom. Seems like the weight of those AGMs’ would help in this situation. Cutting through waves.
I definitely noticed the reduction of weight in my Lowe jet boat, mostly as a positive as the boat got up on plane quicker. I wouldn’t call that jet boat a “wave cutter” on its best day so I don’t think I can blame that on the reduction of weight.
According to that thread a Minn Kota PC charger will charge lithium batteries.
I missed this one previously, a MinnKota PC charger is the charger I’ve used with my current set of Norsk 100ah batteries for that past 3 years. I’ve had zero issues using the AGM setting.
James do you know if minn kota 315d on board charger works with lifepo4 lithium batteries? Thanks in advance
I just did some basic digging and after a quick look I don’t think that charger is going to play well with lithiums. I see it does have a AGM mode but I ran across a bunch of posts on various websites that said it either wouldn’t work at all or only delivered a partial charge. I’d recommend upgrading to a minnkota PCL or Noco genius.
I went with 3 50amp Ionics. Getting 3 days of 4-6 hours fishing. Wish I had gotten the 100’s. No problems in 22 but this year one of the won’t wake up (did everything the Ionic technician said to do) they sent me a shipping label, and it’s on its way back. Good customer service
Brian – your BMS needs to be calibrated. We see this commonly when we help owners of “other” lithium batteries figure out why their batteries went dead at 40% – 50% state of charge remaining. Think about it this way, for a battery monitoring tool to be meaningful it has to be accurate. And if you used your (2) 100ah batteries rigged in series to produce a battery group at 24V and 100Ah of capacity if your app is showing a 98% of charge at the end of the day that means your batteries only delivered 2 amps from each battery after a full day’s use. That’s highly unlikely unless you spent the entire day anchored.
James, I called Power Pole tech support after this thread to inquire as to why my trolling motor batts would be showing 98% and my starting batts 81% after a 7 hour fishing trip (light winds, ran only LS). The tech said that the PP Charge system prioritizes the TM batteries as a default and will keep them charged up at the expense of the starting battery. This can be controlled somewhat on the app with the battery prioritization settings. Mine was set to ‘share’, though the factory default is only over-ridden when the Charge is set to prioritize the starting battery. The factory setting to prioritize the TM batts is the reason my TM batts have been nearly fully charged at the end of most days. That part I didn’t understand when I put out the original response, so apologies if that misled anyone.
With this new information, the lithium batts seem to be performing normally. The anomalous readings at the end of the day seem to be the result of how the PP Charge is interfacing with the batts.
I’m new to the lithium platform and learning as I go! Definitely good to know the BMS goes haywire at times. Something to watch for…
P.s. – I ordered these Impulse batts last fall before learning of your affiliation with Norsk. They arrived in late Nov. and weren’t installed until my boat came out of storage in April…so I wasn’t dissing Norsk! From everything I read they are both good batteries.
