Any of you guys fishing when very cold out with these batteries. Are you buying the batteries with the heater built in or going without. Wondering if it is needed or not. Looking at the 36 volt for mine
The heater on the lithium batteries is only heating when connected to the charger, not while using them. If you have a heated garage that you can charge in it will make no difference. I have 4 100ah 12v batteries and had them out when the temperature was single digits last December. I was out most of the day and it didn’t hit 20° without any problems
I am in the same market. My batteries are due for replacement.
24v system, does a guy go with a single 24v 100ah battery or 2 12v ? And I was also curious about the battery heater. It could also install a quick connect and charge inside at home. I fish in cold weather between p2 and rainy river style trips, do these batteries perform well in 5 degree weather? Sorry for asking on this thread I didn’t want to start another
Make sure your chargers work with lithium batteries. Mine don’t. They only work with lead acid or AGM.
Good quality Lithium batteries will operate your trolling motor and other electronics down to 5 deg. With no issues. Low temperatures come into play when charging. You must get your battery temperature above 32 degrees and preferably 35 degrees for them to take a charge. Batteries with heaters built in simply turn on the heater as soon as you plug in. Once the battery reaches charging temperature the charging process begins.
I was using (unheated) Ionic 12v 50a lithiums last fall until the water hit 37 degrees. I store my boat in an insulated, unheated garage. I didn’t have any issues charging, and I have been super happy with these batteries.
My batteries are due for replacement.
Are these the ones you got from Fleet Farm a few years ago?
I bought the same ones like a month after you. Mine are still OK but I think I will replace them before next spring.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bearcat89 wrote:</div>
My batteries are due for replacement.Are these the ones you got from Fleet Farm a few years ago?
I bought the same ones like a month after you. Mine are still OK but I think I will replace them before next spring.
Those were in my other boat that I sold if I remember correctly. These are still OK but don’t enjoy fighting the current any more. My new charger is good for a lithium battery as well. I have to look in to the specs but if it will handle a good lithium battery I will invest. Probably only a couple hundred more then 2 decent batteries
So if I store my boat in cold storage all winter do they have to be removed or can they stay in boat? My AGM I just fully charge and leave in boat disconnected. This is really the only dilemma holding me back from switching.
Most lithium battery manufacturers recommend a 50% to 75% charge during cold storage. The biggest concern is parasitic draw. You need to make sure the batteries are fully disconnected to prevent discharge. One of the biggest killer of lithium batteries is discharge below 8%. Lots of bad things can happen at this point, and will need a special charger to recover them. Sometimes they are not recoverable!
I have looked at LifePO4 batteries for my trolling motor batteries it does not pencil out cost wise. My lead acid deep cycle batteries last me about six years plus, which I get from Menards group 31`s FPV batteries for around $129 and on sale with 11% off comes in about $99 a battery. Now my dual purpose group 31 starting battery is a different story running 3 Helix 12s, Mega 360, Mega live and everything else on the boat it takes a beating, Two and half to three years she is getting to be toast, That is where the 125 MAH dual purpose Life PO4 will more then likely be my next starting battery.
I am in the same market. My batteries are due for replacement.
24v system, does a guy go with a single 24v 100ah battery or 2 12v ? And I was also curious about the battery heater. It could also install a quick connect and charge inside at home. I fish in cold weather between p2 and rainy river style trips, do these batteries perform well in 5 degree weather? Sorry for asking on this thread I didn’t want to start another
2×100 12v if you have the room.The 24v singles are fairly spendy,but that was my only option to get 24v.Or if cost is not an issue,2-24v in parallel.
I have looked at LifePO4 batteries for my trolling motor batteries it does not pencil out cost wise. My lead acid deep cycle batteries last me about six years plus, which I get from Menards group 31`s FPV batteries for around $129 and on sale with 11% off comes in about $99 a battery. Now my dual purpose group 31 starting battery is a different story running 3 Helix 12s, Mega 360, Mega live and everything else on the boat it takes a beating, Two and half to three years she is getting to be toast, That is where the 125 MAH dual purpose Life PO4 will more then likely be my next starting battery.
My understanding is NOT to use a lithium battery for a starting battery. Don’t know if that is true.
My understanding is NOT to use a lithium battery for a starting battery. Don’t know if that is true.
I have heard that too.
They have dual purpose LifePo4 batteries with 1000 CC and 125 MAH, many guys have changed over to them. My concern ( I have to talk to a dealer ) is I know my Opti charging system is compatible but not sure my Merc Pro Kicker 9.9HP EFI kicker stator charging system is compatible.
I’m researching options right now for a new boat. I need a starter/dual purpose and three deep cycles. I’m going to bite the bullet on the price because of the longevity of the batteries themselves in addition to the performance and weight. Math checks out for me over the 10+ year lifecycle for lithium vs AGM.
I’m not an expert but here’s what I’ve got in my brain right now from reading about them and discussing with a couple of lithium dealers:
There are lithium starting/dual purpose batteries available that work with basically any engine from what I can tell, though I’ve seen what seem like legit questions about the smaller motors. You can get starters with 800+ cranking amps and 100+ ah which should, in addition to starting a big merc four stroke, power some serious electronics all day long. If you decide you need more ah for electronics, you can run two of them in parallel if needed. But I have to say that 200+ ah is a lot of juice and seems excessive assuming you can charge at the end of the day. The alternative is to have a starting battery and a house battery. I like the convenience an efficiency of one battery but haven’t made a final decision on this.
I’ve got myself convinced that I don’t need heated batteries even though I fish the river all winter. As mentioned, lithiums will deliver power until their core temp is in the low single digits so there’s no issue using them in the cold. But I’m told by the dealer that they generate some heat while in use and while charging. So the heater just gets you over that hump to start the charging process. And it would be rare to have them get below freezing in a boat unless you have it sitting outside unused for a time before you want to charge them. If they’re enclosed on your boat and you put them on a charger within a reasonable time period after using them it’s highly unlikely that the core will be below freezing. You just need to make sure the battery’s BMS won’t accept a charge when the temps are below freezing. If you don’t have that and you try to charge them when they are below 32’ you can damage the battery, but assuming it has a BMS that prevents this and you have a good warranty (most seem to be 10 years), again, it sounds like the heater is probably unnecessary. I should mention that I have a heated garage which helps me feel better about this, but in any case I can’t see letting them sit outside unused for an extended period in the cold before I’d charge them in any case. Even if I need to charge them outdoors in the cold, I’d plug them in right away once off the water.
The heated batteries are popular for RV’s where they sit basically unenclosed and may not get used constantly. In a boat, even though you’re fishing in sub-freezing temps and possibly storing them outside, you are unlikely to need the heater unless, again, you want to charge them after they’ve been stored outside for a while. Both dealers I talked to sell heated batteries, both understand that I fish in the winter on the river, and both said it was highly unlikely to ever be an issue. I’m someone who never wants to worry about this and am willing to pay more … but they basically said it’s a waste of $ in a boat. I could be convinced otherwise if anyone here has had an issue charging their lithiums! Winter river fishing is a unique enough situation that I don’t 100% trust that I’d never ever hav an issue. But my starting battery is in a small compartment and I could throw a heater pack in there if necessary. The trolling motor batteries in my boat aren’t as enclosed and would be hard to warm up, but I can’t see running them dead (3x100ah) in a day either if it came down to it.
Finally, I’ve read the same thing about storing them at 50% charge or so. The discharge rate on a lifpo4 battery is very low, so the recommendation from the dealer is to leave them sit without a charger when in storage, even if that’s months on end. Note that this is not the case with the NMC lithium batteries (like the 32ah 14v ones you see) which have a higher discharge rate when sitting. The NMC batteries are great for ice shuttles and such because they are more compact, but you want a lifepo4 battery with a good BMS if you’re going to keep them in your boat full time.
I wanted to buy Norsk but they seem to be mostly unavailable. Ionic seems to be a good alternative at a little better price than Dakota.
So I can get a big discount on amped outdoor batteries and am looking at them now.
For my 17 ft aluminum boat is 2 12v 60ah batteries enough juice ? Should I go to 80ah. Or does a guy do 2 24v 50ah I’m trying to keep it realistic. I don’t need them to last 5 plus days on a single charge. More so just trying to keep it affordable.
Can you share the amped discount?
You can also get a good deal on remanufactured ionic brand lithiums on eBay but they only have a 30 day warranty. That warranty makes me a little nervous of course.
Can you share the amped discount?
You can also get a good deal on remanufactured ionic brand lithiums on eBay but they only have a 30 day warranty. That warranty makes me a little nervous of course.
Likely not. Call up Matt and see what he can do for you. He normally has a few batteries at the shop at a heavily discounted rate. Scratch and dent type stuff.
You can easily get a 10% Discount though. Many guides share them that use Amped Batteries.
I know quiet a few guys that run Amped and they have been happen with them. One guy guides virtually every day, 8-10 hour days. He’s never had an issue.
I currently run a 100ah for my electronics and was waiting for their 36V BT batteries to come out for my TM. I’ll likely pick those up this winter.
So I can get a big discount on amped outdoor batteries and am looking at them now.
For my 17 ft aluminum boat is 2 12v 60ah batteries enough juice ? Should I go to 80ah. Or does a guy do 2 24v 50ah I’m trying to keep it realistic. I don’t need them to last 5 plus days on a single charge. More so just trying to keep it affordable.
How many hours do you fish a day? Running two 12s or 1 24 is kind of up to you. But keep in mind you will need to buy a 24V charger, I don’t think Amped includes those with the 24V batteries like the 36V. Even if you go with 12s, you still might need a new charger, just depends on what you currently use.
So, if you are currently running (2) group 27s, those are normally about a 80ah. Do you know what your voltage is after a day on the water? wet cells batteries shouldn’t be ran down to less than 65%, so you are probably using 20-25 ah a day, just a guess. You can run a Lithium down to about 5%, although I wouldn’t do it every time, so that’s about 47ah. I would be willing to bet you would be just fine running one 50ah 24v. I know a few guys that run one 50ah 36V in a larger glass boat and still don’t get anywhere near 50% during the day. Granted that’s not exactly apples to apples, but a pretty good platform to judge.
Math checks out for me over the 10+ year lifecycle for lithium vs AGM
Please share that math. I have done it multiple times using lead acid vs AGM vs lithium and it doesn’t check out for me on size 27 batteries. I am looking at the Duracell brand.
$100 lead acid batteries (2) can get me about 3-4 seasons.
$200 AGM batteries (2) can get me double that, 6-8 years.
$700 lithium battery (1) can get me 10 years.
The weight savings is beneficial, I can’t argue that. I don’t have lithium-compatible chargers though, so that would also be an added expense. Additionally, I’m very leery about purchasing a battery online should I need to address the warranty. Shipping back a battery and waiting for them to assess it and/or send me a replacement is not something I would consider, so my battery purchase needs to be local. Its hard to sit there and not fish while waiting on something like that. Warranties are often not for a full replacement even if they are within the warranty time frame if you read the fine print. They look at it and then pro-rate what you can do in exchange.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bearcat89 wrote:</div>
So I can get a big discount on amped outdoor batteries and am looking at them now.
For my 17 ft aluminum boat is 2 12v 60ah batteries enough juice ? Should I go to 80ah. Or does a guy do 2 24v 50ah I’m trying to keep it realistic. I don’t need them to last 5 plus days on a single charge. More so just trying to keep it affordable.How many hours do you fish a day? Running two 12s or 1 24 is kind of up to you. But keep in mind you will need to buy a 24V charger, I don’t think Amped includes those with the 24V batteries like the 36V. Even if you go with 12s, you still might need a new charger, just depends on what you currently use.
So, if you are currently running (2) group 27s, those are normally about a 80ah. Do you know what your voltage is after a day on the water? wet cells batteries shouldn’t be ran down to less than 65%, so you are probably using 20-25 ah a day, just a guess. You can run a Lithium down to about 5%, although I wouldn’t do it every time, so that’s about 47ah. I would be willing to bet you would be just fine running one 50ah 24v. I know a few guys that run one 50ah 36V in a larger glass boat and still don’t get anywhere near 50% during the day. Granted that’s not exactly apples to apples, but a pretty good platform to judge.
I right now have a motorguide 24v that I run 2 lead acid group 29s on. My day on the water can be 4 hours and some times 10 to 14 hours, all depends on the trip. I have a brand new noco charger that will handle the lithium batteries. I often times run my current batteries Dea when I’m on the river which I fish more often then not. Those batteries are at the end of there life so that’s why I was asking on what batteries I should look in to. Trying to get the best bang for the buck. 2 24v 50amp batteries is my guess. Then I’ll always have power.
Gimrius, I think you’re running cheaper batteries longer than I am. I really like my blue top optima 31 batteries and am on my second set. They are $400 each. I got about 5 years out of first set of blue tops (except my starting/house battery which somehow is on year 7 right now). Lithiums cost a little less than double if you buy them in a bundle and should last a little more than double.
Gimrius, I think you’re running cheaper batteries longer than I am. I really like my blue top optima 31 batteries and am on my second set. They are $400 each. I got about 5 years out of first set of blue tops (except my starting/house battery which somehow is on year 7 right now). Lithiums cost a little less than double if you buy them in a bundle and should last a little more than double.
Ok, thanks. I can get pretty reasonably-priced batteries as a member of Sam’s Club and they sell the Duracell brand there.
I don’t fish rivers with heavy current either so I’m sure my batteries last longer. Individual mileage may vary here.
I’ve also heard but not confirmed that places do not accept the core return when you replace your lithium batteries like they do with lead acid or AGM. Is that true or that a rumor?
Can you share the amped discount?
You can also get a good deal on remanufactured ionic brand lithiums on eBay but they only have a 30 day warranty. That warranty makes me a little nervous of course.
No I can’t share the discount. I get it because I volunteer and help guide with time on the water for veterans.
If it were me, and since you are running a 24V, I would consider just running (2) 12V 100 ah batteries, then you can still use your brand new NOCO. You could likely get away with (2) 80s or even 60s.
I say since you are running 24V, because some guys with 36V setups have been having issues with charging the “middle” battery bank. I haven’t heard that issue with any guys running 24V setups with batteries in series.
Although it’s obviously up to you. The nice thing with running (2) 24v batteries, if one fails you still will have the other battery to keep you fishing while you wait for a replacement. You’re not too far from Hudson, and it sounds like you might have a connection so getting replacement should be a pretty quick swap, if you ever needed to.
Just a note, since you are running a group 29, which is basically a 31 size case. That you’ll likely want to get a group 24 battery tray, since the 24v 50ah batteries are group 24 size. Then they’re not sliding around.
My understanding is NOT to use a lithium battery for a starting battery. Don’t know if that is true.
I replaced all of my wet cell batteries this spring and although was warned against using lithiums to start my 250 sho, I made the leap anyway when the manufacturer assured me that lots of guys were using them without issue. Since then, I’ve been battling with my motor shutting off instantaneously when at or near wide-open throttle and having 100% charge on the starting battery. Not good! Especially not good – and downright dangerous – during a tournament blast off. This is a premium 125AH lithium and probably an over-voltage issue with the motor when generating high output. I have yet to find a solution other than make sure my starting battery isn’t fully topped off, which alleviates problem. That’s not the right answer in the long run though.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>MX1825 wrote:</div>
My understanding is NOT to use a lithium battery for a starting battery. Don’t know if that is true.I replaced all of my wet cell batteries this spring and although was warned against using lithiums to start my 250 sho, I made the leap anyway when the manufacturer assured me that lots of guys were using them without issue. Since then, I’ve been battling with my motor shutting off instantaneously when at or near wide-open throttle and having 100% charge on the starting battery. Not good! Especially not good – and downright dangerous – during a tournament blast off. This is a premium 125AH lithium and probably an over-voltage issue with the motor when generating high output. I have yet to find a solution other than make sure my starting battery isn’t fully topped off, which alleviates problem. That’s not the right answer in the long run though.
From what I have read, Merc is the only Outboard manufacturer to approve the use of Lithium as a starter battery. Which makes sense, since the company that owns Merc also owns a Lithium Battery Company.
Yamaha and Zuke both do not recommend the use of Lithium. You probably are right, there is likely some goofy voltage anomaly causing an issue at WOT. If it were me, I would attempt to just just a lead acid cranking and separate the Lithium for electronics.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>MX1825 wrote:</div>
My understanding is NOT to use a lithium battery for a starting battery. Don’t know if that is true.I replaced all of my wet cell batteries this spring and although was warned against using lithiums to start my 250 sho, I made the leap anyway when the manufacturer assured me that lots of guys were using them without issue. Since then, I’ve been battling with my motor shutting off instantaneously when at or near wide-open throttle and having 100% charge on the starting battery. Not good! Especially not good – and downright dangerous – during a tournament blast off. This is a premium 125AH lithium and probably an over-voltage issue with the motor when generating high output. I have yet to find a solution other than make sure my starting battery isn’t fully topped off, which alleviates problem. That’s not the right answer in the long run though.
BrianF what battery are you using as your starter? Is it specified as a starting battery?
BrianF what battery are you using as your starter? Is it specified as a starting battery?
Its a 12V 120AH LiFePO4 lithium starting battery.
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