Lithium Batteries (lifepo4) battery woes – Anyone else?

Today I hooked up my 12v Batteries Plus $900 (!!) lithium batteries for the first time in a couple months. One is completely bricked and the other charges but won’t connect on Bluetooth. I’m flabbergasted. I spent crazy money to avoid this. These have been in my basement all winter. I checked them mid-winter and they connected with Bluetooth and had voltage. I’m using the right charger a 5 amp Norco for lithium batteries.

This is a continuation of bad luck. Last year the first 24v lifepo4 I ordered online for $1300 worked once then would not accept a charge. Sent it back. I ordered Dakota Lithiums. They charged my card the $1600 immediately even though the batteries were on backorder. Canceled the order after a month.

I love using lifepo4s the runtime is insane but the resiliency seems to be 0. From what I’m reading the BMS is the issue. Like it’s not protected from the moisture and just rust’s out.

Anyone else have luck with lithium’s?

I’ll see what Batteries Plus says tomorrow.

Just starting season #2 on my litime lifepo4s 2 12v 100ah and love them. No issues yet ( fingers crossed) . Actually ordered a 3rd one tonight for a electronics battery.

Good to hear, thanks! What brand?

If you paid $900 then I’d imagine they came with a 5 yr or better warranty and you should be able to replace them. Virtually every lithium cell comes off the same assembly lines over in China, even the $150 ones. That extra cost is basically extra insurance for the warranty (with maybe some better quality control). Have it replaced. If for some reason you can’t have it replaced, you can replace indivual cells and BMSs yourself if your handy at all.

Keith Voels wrote:

Good to hear, thanks! What brand?

In Bearcat89 post: LiTime

What model lifepo4 did you get for $1300?.

The boat I just sold had two Amped Outdoor 36v 60Ah batteries that I ran for two years and they were flawless. I also switched out the lead acid batteries on a golf cart to two 48v 50Ah also from Amped and they are great as well. New boat coming has four PowerHouse lithiums. Hopefully they are good too.

Yes, I’ll get them replaced. But clearly the BMS is not waterproof so I’ll be back. And it never fails they go out when you need them most!

Mike W wrote:

What model lifepo4 did you get for $1300?.

24V 100Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Iron Deep Cycle Battery

Interestingly, if you look at the user’s manual they don’t recommend using Lithium batteries in parallel.

I stayed away from Lithium because I was told you cannot charge them, cannot even trickle charge them, when temps are below freezing. They can explode actually. Unless, you pay extra for the Lithium batteries with built in heaters. I didn’t want to have to take them out of my boat every winter.

Not saying that is your problem, just stating what I was told.

Lots of guys using a heating blanket to resolve this.

Jake D wrote:

Lots of guys using a heating blanket to resolve this.

That’s what I do.

If you have a Bluetooth app you can also override the low temp cuttoff if you really need to charge it. You risk damage, but I think most guys on this forum aren’t afraid to push things a little within reason.

Running a 24v 100amp on the Rainy River this week in my neighbors boat and it has been fantastic. Li time battery. Think Eric has $500 into battery and charger. This will be the third day on it without charging. Was still at 69%. Just not having to worry about it running out in a day is great. Blue tooth on it is a must to know what you battery is up to. Blue tooth also has a temp reading so you know if you can charge it or not. Even pulling the battery if you do need to is not that big of a deal. I’m sold and will be getting one.

Here is it’s stats this morning after running two days.

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I asked about this very thing from PowerHouse and below is their response. I had asked if their batteries have an internal heater or not.

Our batteries do not have heaters, but can be charged down to 23°F internal cell temp. This is completely different than air temp. It takes a drastically lower air temp to get the internal cell temperature probe down to below 23°. We sell these batteries all over North America, including Canada and only see 1 or 2 total temp issues a year. Generally this is guys that leave their batteries in temperatures below 0° for a week at a time in ice houses. At 16°, it would take quite some time to get below the BMS temp cut off.

The battery will also naturally build heat when you are using it and charging it. To my best knowledge, I would say you shouldn’t have any issues.

Thank you

toddrun wrote:

I stayed away from Lithium because I was told you cannot charge them, cannot even trickle charge them, when temps are below freezing. They can explode actually. Unless, you pay extra for the Lithium batteries with built in heaters. I didn’t want to have to take them out of my boat every winter.

Not saying that is your problem, just stating what I was told.

Mike W wrote:

Running a 24v 100amp on the Rainy River this week in my neighbors boat and it has been fantastic. Li time battery. Think Eric has $500 into battery and charger. This will be the third day on it without charging. Was still at 69%.

Thanks for that data point. I’ll be testing my 24v 100ah setup today on pool 2. I’ll report back on usage. I’m also into my setup for just under $500 with a 2-bank onboard 12v/24v charger.

I use Ionics, they are fantastic top grade batteries with a proven BMS. Most of their newer versions now can only be bought with the built-in heater making cold temp charging a thing of the past. If plugging in to charge, or starting your engine in cold temps, the BMS will not allow a charge to take place until the built-in heater warms up the battery. This is one of the problems with the cheaper versions of lith batteries in that they do not have a reliable BMS.
If your BMS was built right or actually working, your battery would not be ruined as once it reduced to a certain voltage, the BMS would shut down the battery to protect it and eliminate any further draw down. If it has done it’s job and shut down the battery, you just need to wake the battery back up.
Do not, do not, ever try to bypass the BMS to try and charge a cold battery.
Every spring we hear these stories of batteries being dead, If most would just take your wires off one side of the battery post during winter lay up, you would have no issues.
I have a spare Ionic battery that sits on my shelf in my garage and it will loose less than 10% of its charge over the whole winter.

I came in the other day after fishing in temps right around 32 degrees. Battery worked great all day and said 49 degrees at the end of the day. Put it on the charger in the boat and charged it in a couple hours at the end of that day. At that point that battery had been in 32 degree temps or colder for 10 plus hours and still said 49 degrees temp.

Only issue I had is the starting battery went dead on me yesterday and you can’t jump it with the trolling motor battery.

You “shouldn’t” jump a lead acid from a lifepo4, but in a pinch you absolutely “can”. I wouldn’t hesitate if I was stranded out on the water. In the parking lot I’d look around for another option first.

Mike W wrote:

Running a 24v 100amp on the Rainy River this week in my neighbors boat and it has been fantastic. Li time battery. Think Eric has $500 into battery and charger. This will be the third day on it without charging. Was still at 69%. Just not having to worry about it running out in a day is great. Blue tooth on it is a must to know what you battery is up to. Blue tooth also has a temp reading so you know if you can charge it or not. Even pulling the battery if you do need to is not that big of a deal. I’m sold and will be getting one.

Here is it’s stats this morning after running two days.

Impressive for sure.

With that kind of real life data, it’s making me wonder if I even need 100AH. I probably run a trolling motor for 3-4 hours maximum per outing and it’s often to just steer when pulling cranks or to readjust while slipping the current or on a long drift.

Gently lay a heated blanket on my batteries..
What’s next?
A kiss good night?
(not for me)

tim hurley wrote:

Gently lay a heated blanket on my batteries..
What’s next?
A kiss good night?
(not for me)

Cool. Good intell

What is the difference between the Li Time $200 12v 100apmh battery and the Norsk, Ionics or Power House for $500-$1000 ea?

The name…
Im sure there is some better components and the guts of the battery is probably better. But from reviews and real life experiences I will take my chances at buying LiTimes 2-3X for what the other ones cost. And with the price of lead acid batteries its not much more to just go with Litimes to try

Will Prowse tears them a part and reviews the parts that are used and test things like low temp protection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR5MkFRSucc&t=342s

FinickyFish wrote:

You “shouldn’t” jump a lead acid from a lifepo4, but in a pinch you absolutely “can”. I wouldn’t hesitate if I was stranded out on the water. In the parking lot I’d look around for another option first.

Just realize you can ruin your Lifepo4 batteries BMS the first time you do this. Lifepo4 cells are capable of producing more amperage than the BMS may be able to handle. So, if you connect the battery and too many amps can transfer you burn out the LifePo4 BMS instantly. See this owners manual

Do not charge your batteries in parallel either. If one is low and one is charged the bridge may transfer too much amperage. These are not a drop in replacement for Lead Acid Batteries.

That said, when understood, they are much much better. Like has been brought out the run times are amazing!! I can run my trolling motor 8-10 on the river for 5-6 hours and be at 60% with the 125ah batteries.

bigcrappie wrote:

What is the difference between the Li Time $200 12v 100apmh battery and the Norsk, Ionics or Power House for $500-$1000 ea?

Hopefully the BMS is better. I don’t know anyway to tell though. I certainly don’t feel these Batteries Plus battery have any better of a BMS than anything else. Batteries Plus did warranty my battery with no drama.

Thank you for your feedback! Looking at Ionic they say all the right things. Look like good batteries for a good price.

toddrun wrote:

I didn’t want to have to take them out of my boat every winter.

I’ll just mention I didn’t realize how much of a factor the lighter weight would be until I had them. 32 lbs is A LOT easier to wiggle out of the boat.

Used spot lock in light current for about 4 hours today and still have 87% capacity left. 24v 100ah battery. Only 1 small walleye to show for it but didn’t see any other boats catching so must have been one of those days.

Went to pull my boat from unheated winter storage yesterday and my 120A lithium starter was asleep. Woke it up with a jump from the trolling motor battery – both at 76%. The app showed 57% momentarily after the starting battery woke up, then it went to 0%, then went to sleep again. In the meantime, the ‘jump’ caused my onboard charger – PowerPo Charge – to blow both thr 40A and 25A fuse. I replaced the 40A fuse, but when I went to replace the 25A fuse, it sparked or shorted when I touched the fuse prong to the fuse holder…and melted the metal prong.

Not sure the problem, but my thinking is to get a heated starting battery to eliminate the cold charging issue early and late in the year. Hoping I haven’t fried my PowerPole Charge too. Gonna spend more time troubleshooting that.

So, not a good start to the season for this lithium batt owner.