Lee Loader – IMR 4227 Questions

20 years ago I bought my then 12 year old son a 30-06. I used a Lee Loader to make Lite shooting shells for him. While cleaning out the basement I found the loader, some Winchester 706, IMR 4227 and other components. I loaded a box with the Winchester 760, just for fun. I would like to use up the IMR 4227 powder, but cannot find any loading data online. They no longer make IMR 4227. I have 2 questions:

1. I know the Lee Loader compresses the casing neck when you pound it with a hammer, but does it resize the brass?
2. Does anyone have reloading data or a recipe for IMR 4227, 30-06, 150 gr bullet?

Thanks.

4227 as far as I know is primarily used in heavy magnum handgun loads with jacketed bullets. I used it for the 357 maximum when I was shooting that as a handgun load.

I believe 4227 was also used in some of the early varmint cartridges like the 22 hornet, 222 Rem and 218 Bee. This use may have faded as modern powders have been developed.

I consulted every loading manual I have which is about 6 of them and also looked on the IMR load data website and I seen no 30-06 loads listed even amongst the places that list reduced loads.

I am not familiar with the type of Lee loader you’re using. I take it this is some kind of specialized version that does not use standard dies?

Grouse

Thanks for looking into it. I read online that someone thought the loads were in the Lyman 49th edition handbook. But who knows. It is a very simple loader. Most of the work you do by pounding with a rubber ended hammer. Very cheap reloader. I think I got it used 20 years ago for $10.

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My best guess is that that reloading tool only neck sizes the brass. Full-length resizing of brass takes a significant amount of force both to push the brass into the die and to pull it back out.

It’s possible that somebody cooked up a recipe that used 4227. I’m very wary of any load data that is not published by an established manufacturer. In fact I even double-check all load data against a second source because I’m very wary of a misprint.

I’m curious how are you measuring powder charge weight?

Grouse

The Lee Loader comes with a chart that shows what cup/scoop you use for various types of powders. Example: Scoop #258 of Winchester 760 = 63.5 grains of powder. Like you I am very leary of home made recipes and the scoop numbers. What I did 20 years ago was to scoop out 20 loads on a scale and divide them by 20 to get and average. My average was 59.93, not 63.5. I did this for every scoop in the kit (13). For some reason I lost the data I had on the IMR 4227. I do not know what scoop or how many grains of powder I used.

I committed to a new pup Griffon that was supposed to be born this spring. The male got in early and the pups were born in October. I got the pup at Christmas. So I have been killing time at home potty training this new pup instead of ice fishing. Dug out the old reloader for something to do.

Dennis Williams wrote:

Example: Scoop #258 of Winchester 760 = 63.5 grains of powder. Like you I am very leary of home made recipes and the scoop numbers. What I did 20 years ago was to scoop out 20 loads on a scale and divide them by 20 to get and average. My average was 59.93, not 63.5. I did this for every scoop in the kit (13)

DANGER! Even 59 grains of Win 760 exceeds the MAXIMUM load! 63.5 grains would be VERY DANGEROUS!!!! Do NOT shoot!

With a 150 grain bullet, the IMR database says:

Winchester 760:

Recommended starting load: 53 grains.
Maximum load: 57 grains.

Those charge weights are verified by other books. Not sure where you got your load data, but wherever it is, discard that source.

Again, I would urge you NOT to shoot those loads if the weights you gave are correct. Never exceed maximum recommended loads!

Grouse

several threads out there for this powder,and yes,use at your own risk.
I found one site that said the 4227 was the military go to for 30-06 and another cartridge.
read and use at your discretion and have fun !

https://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/1101-30-06-load/

Iowaboy1 wrote:

several threads out there for this powder,and yes,use at your own risk.
I found one site that said the 4227 was the military go to for 30-06 and another cartridge.
read and use at your discretion and have fun !

https://castbulletassoc.org/forum/thread/1101-30-06-load/

cast bullets use different powders as target velocities are much lower to avoid lead contamination of rifling, very common to see pistol/shotgun powders used