Lead is Killing the Swans

  • Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #2259281

    Lead and Swans

    You’ll have to follow the yahoo news link or just google “Swans and Vadnais Heights”.

    I’m surprised that they are certain that it’s lead doing this. They didn’t say if they had fatal levels of lead, “found lead in their system”. Also birds dye a slow death from lead but no mention of finding any sick swans…just dead ones.

    I would just like more facts proving it’s lead killing these birds.

    I wonder if they are willing to dredge the channel to get rid of the lead on the bottom?
    There is a presentation and a survey you can take linked at the end of the Yahoo New article.

    This will be used for years to come in trying to ban lead in fishing gear…even if it’s not lead being the cause.

    Wildlifeguy
    Posts: 384
    #2259288

    In that particular spot? I wouldn’t be surprised at all. 1. Swans are there year-round, as it never freezes. 2.It gets HEAVY fishing pressure, of the live bait and sinkers variety, being one of few shore fishing opportunities in the area that isn’t an overcrowded fishing pier. Take whatever opinion you like on the overall issue of lead, but in this particular couple hundred yard stretch, it’s quite reasonable to believe it.

    Beast
    Posts: 1121
    #2259289

    is there a shortage of swans?

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 17208
    #2259290

    is there a shortage of swans?

    That would be my question too. Is the swan population in decline, and is it in decline directly from lead poisoning?

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22492
    #2259296

    That would be my question too. Is the swan population in decline, and is it in decline directly from lead poisoning?

    Trumpeter swans are more plentiful now than I ever remember. There are more of them than Eagles for sure, granted they have multiple chicks where an eagle may only have 2. I just had 2 flocks of Tundra Swans fly over my house this morning. Those dont stick around however.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18594
    #2259303

    Really. I have seen their numbers increase steadily for years. I see a lot of them every week. More than ever before. A LOT more. Headline is BS. Maybe a few unlucky ones die of lead poisoning but so what. How many hit power lines, windmills, automobiles, etc?
    Now do pelicans, eagles and cranes….Same story.

    Ripjiggen
    Posts: 11548
    #2259306

    Should probably track them with FFS.

    Riverrat
    Posts: 1516
    #2259314

    Swans and geese keep huge stretches of river open on the Ottertail River literally hundreds of thousands of year round resident waterfowl, Never have I seen a single dead swan. I’ve seen a couple dead pelicans, and a bunch of dead geese. The geese were predated on. Is a homeowner that finds swans extremely loud and annoying (they are) more responsible than lead tackle, and for an added bonus they get rid of swans and those pesky fisherman? Its a lawn care professional and some self proclaimed experts that say its lead poisoning.

    Mike W
    MN/Anoka/Ham lake
    Posts: 13292
    #2259323

    Pretty sure the otters killed the swan chicks in the pond at my farm. Wonder if they will ban otters to?

    Rodwork
    Farmington, MN
    Posts: 3975
    #2259328

    Seems like this is the new way of doing things. If science doesn’t support what you are trying to accomplish. Tell some lies and take a public poll to push what you are trying to accomplish. doah

    In the article it says all the swans tested for led came up positive. Did they only test one? Was the amount of lead found enough to cause death? Doesn’t say.

    Reef W
    Posts: 2700
    #2259363

    I’m surprised that they are certain that it’s lead doing this. They didn’t say if they had fatal levels of lead, “found lead in their system”. Also birds dye a slow death from lead but no mention of finding any sick swans…just dead ones.

    They did specifically say they died of lead poisoning in the video linked at the end.

    David Anderson
    Dayton, MN
    Posts: 506
    #2259505

    My lake association has a “get the lead out” program because of the high number of loons on the lake. I am not sure of the exact number but of 150 dead loons brought into the wildlife rehab center, 27 supposedly died from “lead” poisoning. A number of x-ray photo’s showed a jig with the hook stuck in the throat. I asked how many actually died from lead poisoning verse starvation because they can’t swallow anything. No answer. Further review has the number at less than 13. So regardless if we switch to tungsten or not, the loons who swallow the hooks are doomed. In another picture there was pebbles inter sprinkled with small split shot with the caption, can you see the lead. At the Sportsman Show last year there was a representative from the Get the Lead Out. They had the same picture so I asked the guy where they took that picture or was it staged. He finally admitted it was staged. There is a huge difference between lead shot being scattered throughout a wet land verses a sinker that happens to fall off a line somewhere. My thoughts are that 10 year old line is more responsible for lead contamination than responsible anglers. I cannot remember simply losing a sinker because of stupidity. Any jigs that I bust on snags, I would not want to meet the bird that can get it out. No doubt there are instances but then again eagles and Musky’s eat baby loons, so shoot an eagle save a loon? And why is the DNR planting musky in the lake that is designated a loon friendly lake? Last summers survey only counted 3 chicks, 34 loons. Assume that is 17 pairs, where did all the chicks go, oh they swallowed broken off lead jigs and sinkers……NOT.

    DTW
    Posts: 298
    #2259575

    I don’t believe the lead poisoning argument. My grandson swallowed a .22 shell. We called poison control and they let us know there was no worry about lead poisoning, and it will pass.

    I am sure many of you on this site have ingested or spit out many lead bb’s from your days hunting birds over the decades. I know I have.

    DTW

    Reef W
    Posts: 2700
    #2259585

    We called poison control and they let us know there was no worry about lead poisoning, and it will pass.

    Benefit of not having a gizzard

    Ripjiggen
    Posts: 11548
    #2259589

    I don’t believe the lead poisoning argument. My grandson swallowed a .22 shell. We called poison control and they let us know there was no worry about lead poisoning, and it will pass.

    I am sure many of you on this site have ingested or spit out many lead bb’s from your days hunting birds over the decades. I know I have.

    DTW

    What the???Is your nephew John Wayne. jester

    joe-winter
    St. Peter, MN
    Posts: 1281
    #2259614

    I am just wondering….. I haven’t read any of the articles…. Is the DNR blaming the lead contamination from birds swallowing actual lures/weights/etc? or are they suggesting a higher lead content in the water supply that they are claiming is from tackle?

    secondarily have they forced fed tungsten or any other metal to birds to validate safety? or is tungsten safe because you know well tungsten is just safe because it is you know just better because you know its just safer…

    I have been told that tungsten shows up better on FFS….. should probably ban it as well just to be safe.

    glenn57
    cold spring mn
    Posts: 11735
    #2259624

    i see 2 issues in this!!!!!!

    1) chronic dosing…..not random like wild birds would consume
    2) game farm ducks…..sounds like force fed the stuff…again not random.

    Jimmy Jones
    Posts: 2783
    #2259627

    In the grand scheme of things, it’s probably quicker and cheaper to ban those that are seeking to ban the lead. Hasn’t our state and federal governments got something more pressing to fart around with that instead of continually tossing these garbage ideas into a session where urgent issue actually exist.

    Jimmy Jones
    Posts: 2783
    #2259722

    I’ll add that I have already taken steps to remove lead from my deer hunting fodder. Being a muzzleloader enthusiast I can be fussy about what I put down the barrel to kill deer with and choose to shoot Barnes copper bullets, the XPB pistol bullets actually. So, eagles can gnaw away at the pile left in the woods. At the range though, I sling copper jacketed lead bullets since I observe very few birds picking thru the remnants of the back shops looking for heavy grit.

    Now in the yard things get less picky. Squirrels, rabbits, chippers or an occasional woodchuck….. all are active targets, year round. The pellet gun shoots lead pellets. The .22 shoots lead bullets that fracture. in Either instance, significant lead is left in the deceased and sometimes I don’t get around to picking up the carcass for a half hour or so and in that down time I have witnessed both large hawks and eagles come swoop along and snap up the unlucky rodent’s remains. I guess, after seeing what’s left after either raptor enjoys its take, the lead has been consumed. Now these big birds seem to have a remarkable memory when it comes to patrolling a yard that has freely offered up some vittles and they return to check things out on a regular basis. They all fly just as well they did prior to getting the free meal and none of them act weird or fly into the sides of trees or chase cars so just how much lead do they have to eat before they actually get goofy and possibly croak from lead ingestion?

    As for the swans, they seem to prefer areas when guns are not booming when there’s a hunting season and after the guns stop and things freeze up where the swans might like to forage by tipping any shot left there by hunters would have to be non-toxic by law. Lead went away on any water a swan will use maybe 40-50 years ago and would be covered by muck. And I can’t think of any sane angler who’s sit on three feet of water to fish for anything while losing jigs or sinkers. And I cannot say I have ever seen a swan “dive” for food. Maybe they do…. I’ve never seen the act. And loons. It seems that if a loon ate a dead fish that had a sinker or jig in it, it could die, sure. But crows stop and dine on car killed goodies all the time and get smucked by traffic. Why not have the uproar over this act? Dead bird is a dead bird in my book and if cars are killing as many birds as lead supposedly is, then ban or outlaw cars as well.

    All this furor is generated by green people, rich ones, who have nothing to do with their time but look at picture books and say to the kiddies, “let’s go see a real birdie. Then stumble across a dead one and need to find a party to blame for what Mother Nature has done. Fortunately sportsmen/women are handy targets.

    I wonder how many of these self important people sit their 4 and 5 year olds down and explain where hamburger or hotdogs or a chicken patty come from after spending a morning in the birthing barn at the county fair?

    DaveB
    Inver Grove Heights MN
    Posts: 4465
    #2259724

    No comment

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59992
    #2259739

    Great Post Jimmy!

    BTW did you know the walleye in DaveB’s picture was killed by lead?

    10klakes
    Posts: 520
    #2259758

    I am just wondering….. I haven’t read any of the articles…. Is the DNR blaming the lead contamination from birds swallowing actual lures/weights/etc? or are they suggesting a higher lead content in the water supply that they are claiming is from tackle?

    Not sure its even the DNR making a major push, its environmental groups with the outcry and pushing legislation.

    Justin Donson
    Posts: 351
    #2259789

    How close is this to the old Water Gremlin factory? Didn’t they get shut down because they were leaching lead into the watershed or something in that area?

    topshotta
    Posts: 103
    #2259790

    No doubt the industry is watching this closely and will deploy significant resources to combat any legislation banning lead fishing tackle in MN. To me, lead is hard to substitute for fishing purposes, unlike hunting. I like Hornady alloys for my big game hunting, as research I have seen shows lead bullet fragments in meat, no thanks. Also the risk to eagles as noted earlier. The thought of poisoning an eagle is, to me, unsettling. I have heard of far more birds being killed by discarded fishing line than lead.

    Jimmy Jones
    Posts: 2783
    #2259798

    The thought of poisoning an eagle is, to me, unsettling. I have heard of far more birds being killed by discarded fishing line than lead.

    Eagles, loons, swans….. it makes no difference what bird, there’s always something out there that can and does kill them. Other than lead. So where does this lead ban pursuit end? I could see it when, if it ever happens in this life-time, lead has been proven to be a major contributing factor in the killing of these birds to the extent it has a negative affect breeding populations…. which at this point is not even remotely a forethought.

    We’ve seen where the chase of the almighty dollar in fishing competitions can lead to some using lead to artificially increase bag weights. How feasible for someone WITH money, use it to plant lead pellets in the crops of birds to move a lead ban agenda? Yes, x-rays can show the lead in crops. Pretty indisputable that it is there. But now PROVE that the lead got there as per the claims. I’d bet that 95% of the money and push comes from the very same people who are okie dokie with leaving the borders free to anyone that wants to mosey on thru.

    All of these dead by lead claims just don’t add up in this meager mind. These anti’s want us to believe we’re standing in a bucket of $hit but just can’t smell it. I know who’s standing in that bucket and it ain’t me.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 22492
    #2259830

    The lead ban will do almost nothing to curb this if its actually killing them. Its already in the water so what are they going to do about that?

    topshotta
    Posts: 103
    #2259833

    “which at this point is not even remotely a forethought.”

    lead poisoning of eagles has been studied extensively by very qualified biologists

    Lead poisoning in eagles is not determined by x-ray, it is measured by tissue analysis (blood, liver, feathers). The largest study of this type looked at 1,210 dead eagles from 38 states and found that up to half of the eagles in the US have lead poisioning. (go merica’) The authors attribute this to the eagles feeding on gut piles, which has been a known source of lead in raptors for decades. Authors also stated that at current levels this could lead to a reduction of bald eagle population growth by 3.8% per year, which seems minimal but adds up over time, like compound interest.

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