lead core noob questions

Thinking of giving lead a try here one of these days, looking to get flicker shads and similar baits down to about 20-25 ft. Couple of questions:

The reels I have can hold about 75 yards of 15lb Suffix Performance Lead Core. With mono backing I figure I’ll just spool 5 colors each on two reels. Make sense?

How about leader material/length? Fishing stained water to varying degrees, ‘sip and Croix.

Can leadcore be removed from the reel, placed on a spool, and re-used again later like braid?

Any tips or considerations for a first-time lead puller?

Be ready to pull out your hair.

Just started myself, all on the Croix. 10-15′ lead works for myself, had a 30′ lead to start but that got maddening to figure out depths for this noob.

I’ll highly recommend a good rod. It’s so much easier to tell what your lure is doing with the sensitive tip that comes with quality. Trolling with another IDOers Taloras and then some crappy depthmasters it’s night and day.

Practice your knots at home, joining lead and mono can suck

nhamm wrote:

Be ready to pull out your hair.

Just started myself, all on the Croix. 10-15′ lead works for myself, had a 30′ lead to start but that got maddening to figure out depths for this noob.

I’ll highly recommend a good rod. It’s so much easier to tell what your lure is doing with the sensitive tip that comes with quality. Trolling with another IDOers Taloras and then some crappy depthmasters it’s night and day.

Practice your knots at home, joining lead and mono can suck

Noted. I may just start with lead on one reel to keep things simple.

So you’re using a mono leader then? Length? Double uni knot?

I much prefer braid when trolling in general, it’s just so easy to feel what’s happening with the bait. Was leaning toward 10/4 fireline leader. I have decently sensitive rod tips, but they definitely communicate vibration better on braid.

Noob here,
Got too flusterated, ended up taking all the lead off and went with color coded braid.
I’ll try lead again next year.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Noob here,
Got too flusterated, ended up taking all the lead off and went with color coded braid.
I’ll try lead again next year.

Flusterated is a great word.

I currently have the color-coded Power Pro on 2 reels and love it. Anything that helps my kid do something precisely for once is genius in my book!

Was your frustration also with not finding desired depth consistently?

I like to carry two reels with 30 yrds, and two reels of 40 yrds of lead core spliced between suffix 832 on the back end and and 20-30 feet of 10 lbs Seaguar Flouro for a leader.
I can get most of the lighter shallow running baits where I want them, using either set up.
I have tried reels with multiple lengths of lead on the reel but I just don’t like the weight that comes along with that set up.

Yes, I saw fish down there but I’m pretty sure I was too far above or below.

I’ll give it a better run next year.

at one point in time….

I had 2 rods with 3 colors LC, 2 with 5 colors LC, 2 with 7 colors LC, and a rod with 300 feet of copper line, I miss my copper line!

whats really fun is using all the rods at once!

I couldn’t handle that.

Any other thoughts on leader material and length?

I pull lead on Lake Michigan…. and because I’m trying to keep the investment reasonable…. I do pull lead off the real when I want to change the amount of lead, or go without for dipsey use or whatever.

Because I use boards… but I would do it anyway, I run a piece of heavier mono between my backing and the lead. A good uni knot from mono to the lead, and I always then cut it off at the braid end to just re tie it when putting it back on, never then messing with the lead end.

Same on the other side… use a small high quality swivel tied one once, and then change leaders on the other side as desired or needed. The swivel protects the lead as well.

I may have an extra knot in my set up… but have never had a failure, and it is easy to change out.

Lead is very speed dependent….. I use it more with stick baits or neutral depth lures (or spoons and such out on the big water). Have not tried it with my flicker shad style baits.

I would tend to try and not drag bottom with this set up… If I do that, I tend to do more three way fishing with bottom bouncers or such.

I don’t have much experience with lead core, but I have been researching it for awhile trying to learn. A couple of guys that i have talked to that fish the NWT run braid for the leader I have heard from 10′ to 30′ from 10 lb to 30 lb. They said the rod needs to be soft enough to act as the shock absorber so the hooks don’t pull out as easy. I would think this is to allow the action of the crank bait to show up better to tell if it is fouled or not. Another option I have heard is to run 30′ of mono, that will act like a shock absorber because of the stretch. And another option I have heard is 30′ of floro to help with line shy fish in clearer water. Lots of options, each probably has its optimal place, based on water clarity or the amount of debris in the water, or how aggressive the fish are biting. Lots of videos on YouTube about it also. A guy almost has to just pick one and give it a try and make adjustments from there. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Have you looked at Torpedo Divers in lieu of lead core. They are popular in other parts of the country. I am just starting to learn how to use them, but they work as advertised.

Someone with more experience can jump in here, I use it as a snap weight on #20 line. With a line counter real. With shorter leader.

Attachments:

1. 

   FixedSliderSetupMain.jpg
   

Hey pool2fool

My current river core setups consists of:
10 foot Scheels lead core rods, you want a good rod with a soft tip to determine if the crank is running true or fouled up/shock absorber for reeling in fish

600 series line counters

50 feet 10 lb mono backing tied to 18 lb regular lead core remove the lead from the sheath and connect with a double surgeon knot

On the business end I have the lead tied to a small swivel connected to a rods length of 20 lb braid again remove the lead from the sheath and tie on the swivel

With a #7 flicker or rapala at 2 mph

15-17 feet of water I’d start out at 80-90 feet out. Keep letting out in 10 foot increments until you bang bottom. Once you find bottom, roll up 5 cranks on the reel and your good to go.

20-25 feet of water I’d start with 125-135 feet out.
Your 15 lb suffix 832 advanced lead core dives quicker than the standard so this should get you a starting point.

Hope this helps

I was fishing lead on the Croix yesterday and limited out a little shallower than the depths you are talking. I have 18# lead on a line counter reel. I go by feet, not by color (But I do know it holds 5 colors) In 16 to 20 feet of water I run out 80 feet of line for Flickers and jointed Shad Raps. I ran jointeds yesterday because I was competing with a zillion shad and wanted my lure to stand out in that crowd. That is my exact set-up and it has worked for years.

Oh, and I use a leader of 10 pound floro. if your lead line is new you can take 3″ of lead out, Make the beginning of a half hitch, like tying your shoe. Slide the leader up into the sheath where the lead was and maneuver the loop down over the area where your leader is inside the sheath and pull tight. You will never be able to pull that leader loose, and it slides through the eyes like a dream! The older your lead line gets, the harder this step is to perform. I prefer 10 foot leaders.

Jami Ritter wrote:

Hey pool2fool

My current river core setups consists of:
10 foot Scheels lead core rods, you want a good rod with a soft tip to determine if the crank is running true or fouled up/shock absorber for reeling in fish

600 series line counters

50 feet 10 lb mono backing tied to 18 lb regular lead core remove the lead from the sheath and connect with a double surgeon knot

On the business end I have the lead tied to a small swivel connected to a rods length of 20 lb braid again remove the lead from the sheath and tie on the swivel

With a #7 flicker or rapala at 2 mph

15-17 feet of water I’d start out at 80-90 feet out. Keep letting out in 10 foot increments until you bang bottom. Once you find bottom, roll up 5 cranks on the reel and your good to go.

20-25 feet of water I’d start with 125-135 feet out.
Your 15 lb suffix 832 advanced lead core dives quicker than the standard so this should get you a starting point.

Hope this helps

I do exactly same a Jami for my river LC set ups. The only time I ever get down to the 10lb backing is on snags when you need to let line out until you get turned around to try and get the snag out. You want to get all of the backing and lead core reeled back in before you start horsing on a snagged lure. Once lead core gets pulled hard (stretched) it can become very un-manageable to fish with.

-J.

Tons of helpful info above. Thanks everyone! A follow-up:

Jami Ritter wrote:

10 foot Scheels lead core rods, you want a good rod with a soft tip to determine if the crank is running true or fouled up/shock absorber for reeling in fish

The rods I troll with aren’t specifically designed for lead, but with power pro it’s very obvious for me to see and feel if my lure’s been fouled. If using braid for my leader as well, can I expect similar results pulling lead, or is there something about lead that calls for an even more sensitive tip?

chris-tuckner wrote:

Oh, and I use a leader of 10 pound floro. if your lead line is new you can take 3″ of lead out, Make the beginning of a half hitch, like tying your shoe. Slide the leader up into the sheath where the lead was and maneuver the loop down over the area where your leader is inside the sheath and pull tight. You will never be able to pull that leader loose, and it slides through the eyes like a dream! The older your lead line gets, the harder this step is to perform. I prefer 10 foot leaders.

I believe Chris is describing the Willis knot for those that want to look it up. It is all I use and works like a dream.

mark-bruzek wrote:

I believe Chris is describing the Willis knot for those that want to look it up. It is all I use and works like a dream.

X2 on the knots!

-J.

I pull leadcore a lot, both in open water and following contours, but I’ve never trolled it in rivers

Everyone has their own method of fishing leadcore, but here’s some of what works for me.

First of all, I use 18 lb. leadcore. It has the maximum lead/foot of line and sinks at about 5 ft./color at 2 mph as a general rule in my experience. Lighter test leadcore has less lead/foot and heavier pound test has the same amount of lead/foot but runs shallower at the same speed because of the higher water resistance of the larger diameter sheath around the lead.

I like using a #30 linecounter reel for leadcore and a 100 yard spool of 18 lb. leadcore fits perfectly on a #30 reel without any backing. The reel spooled with leadcore is heavy, but even my wife handles them with ease and I always troll leadcore with my rods in holders anyway. I tie a barrel swivel to the business end of the leadcore and tie about 6 ft. of 15 lb. Power Pro braid onto that, terminated by a crankbait clip. I use both 8’6″ and 10′ medium action soft tipped rods and have never found the need to get expensive rods like some will claim. Cabela’s combos work perfectly well for trolling leadcore and they won’t break the bank. To check if your crankbait is still running properly, check the vibration by holding your palm on the butt of the rod handle to feel for the vibration if you can’t see it on the tip of your rod.

Leadcore trolling depth is very speed dependent. Faster than 2 mph will raise your crankbait while going too slow can cause snagging issues on the bottom. Speed is your friend while trolling contours with leadcore line. When you get shallow (and you will), give your motor gas immediately. It’ll raise your crankbait allowing them to avoid snags while allowing you to get back on course.

Prior to letting out your leadcore line, run your crankbait by the boat to check that it’s tuned properly. An improperly tuned crankbait won’t catch fish.

To fish leadcore, first mark some fish you think are walleyes and if they are in say 25 ft. (if you don’t mark them you’ll rarely catch them in 25 ft.)of water, let out 150 ft. of leadcore, set your rod in the holder and drive at 2 mph. You will probably catch walleyes. It’s that simple.

If you know there are walleyes under you but they won’t go, try triggering them with short bursts of speed, momentarily putting your motor in neutral or sharp S turns. It works more often than many would think.

Another tip……if the bite slows and you are still marking fish, change crankbaits, sometimes often. Different actions, sizes, colors, rattles or no rattles, etc. can make a big difference at times.

I run 4 rods/reels with 832 leadcore.
Each has been calibrated at 100′ so all 4 rods reels perform identical depths.
At the end of the lead I tie on a small spro swivel. To the swivel my leader…

Leader I vary depending on season and tactic.

Up to 20′ or as short as 5′.
14# mono or 20# braid.

I tend to use braid when pounding bottom. Tend to use mono when fishing suspended. Longer lengths on mono in clear water.

I reel my swivel right into the reel. Choose your rods with sst eyelets so they can tolerate this.

Easy peasy…

Two reels are on 5′ shortys, other two on 10′ rods.

I have also made a depth chart that ranges from 1 mph to 5 mph and from 5′ to 35′ depths. Very helpful!!!!

You can make one yourself like I did using the 2mph/30′ line/ 7′ depth. Assume linear relationship.

nhamm wrote:

Be ready to pull out your hair.

X2. Tried it this year. Spent the better part of 2 weeks off and on in my free time just trying to tie the leadcore to the mono backing and leader material using a blood knot. Things didn’t improve much once I finally got it in the boat. Maybe ill try again next year

Thanks again for all the great feedback everyone.

Picked up a spool of 18# suffix lead core last night. I’m just doing 1 rod for now. We’ll see how many failed knots before I head to the liquor store.

If the poo hits the fan when lines get wet, it won’t ruin my day. I’d rather fish my other rods than waste time tying knots on the water.

chris-tuckner wrote:

Make the beginning of a half hitch, like tying your shoe. Slide the leader up into the sheath where the lead was and maneuver the loop down over the area where your leader is inside the sheath and pull tight.

15 years ago the willis knot was my go-to knot to connect the leader to lead core. As the years wear on and the vision tends to degrade trying to get that darn leader slid into the sheath became increasingly frustrating (sometimes impossible)! I found the double surgeon knot that Jami referred to above (probably from a thread on here) a few years ago and using lead core is much more enjoyable! I think I could almost tie that knot in the dark.

Surgeons Knot

I got down to the St Croix to do some trolling for a couple of hours this afternoon. Tried some tail dancers off of boards, a jointed shad rap off lead core, and a couple of jointed shads with 8 oz snap weights. This is the first time I have used snap weights. They caught all the fish. They were easy to work with. 50′ snap weight and then another 30 to 50′ depending on depth. Quick and easy to raise or drop with the depth. I will definitely be using them in the future.

Thanks to everyone for posting all the great info in this thread.

I tried several times and couldn’t get the Willis knot to work for me. My mono backing was not cooperating when trying to slide it up into the dacron sheath to meet the lead. I think it’s 8 lb trilene XT backing. This knot seems like it’d work great with a stiffer/straighter piece of mono.

Ended up going with a uni-uni and it seems nice and sturdy; did a swivel on the business end so I can play with different leaders. I’ll probably start with 10 feet of 10lb flourocarbon. Have 8 and 10 lb mono and some 30 pound braid in the box if a leader change is wanted.

Planning to head back to the St Croix either Thursday or Friday, watching the wind forecast.

arcticm1000 wrote:

I got down to the St Croix to do some trolling for a couple of hours this afternoon. Tried some tail dancers off of boards, a jointed shad rap off lead core, and a couple of jointed shads with 8 oz snap weights. This is the first time I have used snap weights. They caught all the fish. They were easy to work with. 50′ snap weight and then another 30 to 50′ depending on depth. Quick and easy to raise or drop with the depth. I will definitely be using them in the future.

Thanks to everyone for posting all the great info in this thread.

We troll 8 oz. snap weights on inside lines and leadcore on outside lines on lakes where my wife and I can troll with multiple lines. It works very well with one method outfishing the other on certain days but usually, both methods catch fish equally as well. More often than not, it seems like it’s just a matter of getting the right depth dialed in on one method or the other to get the fish biting on all of them.
I’ve read articles stating that slight differences in the up and down movement of crankbaits using leadcore vs. snapweights when changing speeds can make a difference at times also. It makes some sense to me that one may trigger fish more than the other at certain times because of it.
Snap weights do have the advantage over leadcore of being able to quickly get a lure in the water and down to depth where leadcore takes time to do so. It’s also a lot quicker to check a lure to see if it’s running properly or change crankbaits fishing with snap weights than doing the same fishing with leadcore.

I prefer to tie the leadcore to a swivel and then never tie it again unless it is becoming suspect.

The swivel also protects the leadcore from a spinning lure.

Then you can change your leader many times over without having to touch your leadcore.

Sometimes that lead can be very difficult to extract from the braided line. Just keep cutting off leadcore until you get a stretch you can pull the braid back.