I have been running HDS8’s with the LSS1 for the last 5 years and was strongly considering switching out to the new Garmin EcoMap Chirp units. I use the downscan at least 95% of the time. After viewing the youtube I am now a little hesitant.
Any real thoughts? I don’t want this to be “my dog is better than your dog” discussion but any real comparisons from the membership would be helpful. Also I am not interested in HB. THX
THX
Interesting. Got to love it when these big companies go right at each other. Love it!
I’ve been running the same with the lss2 for the last 4 years. I can honestly say that I almost never use downscan. I don’t fish a lot of structure like that so I use side imaging and regular sonar almost constantly. Looking for fish and bottom transitions.
I will say that my downscan images don’t really look like that but then again I haven’t really played with it.
HDS8 and now 12 user here. When I go into the “forest” I’m always amazed at the detail of the trees.
What surprised me about that video was the HB is licensed through Navico. I thought it was Johnson Outdoors that was suing Navico for side scan and down scan infringements.
Sorry I can’t help you with your question.
Was I the only one that noticed over two degrees difference in water temp between units? Is that normal? Also how can the detail and fish marking test be fair when you don’t use the same color palate?
There’s always a 2 deg difference between my lss2 transducer and my sonar transducer. Doesn’t surprise me at all.
I’m just starting to try and figure out the current sonar options outside of Humminbird. How about a Garmin downVU product? Wouldn’t that have a dedicated DI element and provide a better comparison?
The same stich-n-bitch argument made in the video could be used comparing Lowrance to Hturd, but then Hturd offers a dedicated DI setup and Solix units with dedicated DI in the SI ducer. Too much jargon out there. I could care less about patents. Patent pending..
The Lowrance Ti is chirp? Wonder if they have the Garmin chirp as well?
Thats about the only thing I can come up with, and whether that has any affect on downscan idk.
Not having a down element doesn’t necessarily turn me off to it. But the vid show maybe I should.
Below is clipped out of an email from Lowrance-
In 2014, Garmin began shipping their version of down-scanning technology called DownVü™. As you may know, in 2015 the International Trade Commission (ITC) ruled that DownVü™ infringed upon Navico’s patents in the U.S. for DownScan Imaging™.
After a minor redesign to the DownVü™ transducer, Garmin made plans to move forward with U.S. imports. But, the ITC issued a ruling that caused Garmin to move away from the modified DownVü™ design. An ongoing enforcement action is underway relating to Garmin’s U.S. importations and sales of the modified transducer without seeking ITC approval. That brings us to ClearVü™, which is now marketed as Garmin’s side- and down-scanning solution.
ClearVü™ does not infringe on the Navico U.S. patents, because it does not include a down-facing element in the transducer. This creates a scanning gap directly beneath the boat. In the U.S., the Garmin ClearVü™ approach is to stitch together the side-scanning returns to fill the scanning gap directly under the boat. This reduces clarity and range, distorts the appearance of targets picked up by both side-scanning beams and completely misses some targets directly beneath the boat.
The idea of creating a down-scan view by using only the side-scan sonar signals is not new. Other marine electronics manufacturers tried this solution, but recognized it did not work well — opting to provide their customers with a true DownScan Imaging solution, which is why other marine electronics manufacturers, including Humminbird® and Raymarine®, now license the true Navico DownScan Imaging technology for use on their fishfinders.
Not buying it for one second. Why don’t they run the 2 at the same time on the same pass, not make a pass with only one running at a time. Until I see that I call total BS
Also, why does Garmin SI have a scanning gap? My Hturd product scanning sonar performance is stellar and can easily split suspended fish under the ducer between the L and R element?
I’m going to guess if Garmin can prove this was misleading, we’ll be hearing about another law suit.
The Lowrance Ti is chirp? Wonder if they have the Garmin chirp as well?
Thats about the only thing I can come up with, and whether that has any affect on downscan idk.
Chirp doesn’t come into play with a downscan/side scanning transducer. Only 2D sonar.
Not buying it for one second. Why don’t they run the 2 at the same time on the same pass, not make a pass with only one running at a time. Until I see that I call total BS
They did run them both at the same time on the same pass when in deeper water. He explained by he paused the Lowrance when they were shallower because it was causing interference on the Garmin.
Correct me if I’m wrong and maybe things have changed but wasn’t Humminbird also not using true DownScan? When I researched which unit to buy some years ago, I though HB was taking it’s SI and “generating” an DI view? Is HB now using Lowrance technology on their DI?
I think that’s right; Humminbird uses Lowrance downscan patents and Lowrance uses Humminbird SI patents.
Not buying it for one second. Why don’t they run the 2 at the same time on the same pass, not make a pass with only one running at a time. Until I see that I call total BS
Not bs if they legally can’t run a true downscan transducer. I though that was pretty clear in fishwater’s post.
I remember reading about Garmins lawsuit but never really understood what it really meant. Now I understand perfectly.
I don’t know for sure but I think that statement is not true at least with garmin. On my garmin in clearscan and sidescan the screen says chirp. On a side note: what is the deal with pictures either sideways or upside-down on this site?
Chirp doesn’t come into play with a downscan/side scanning transducer. Only 2D sonar.
20170324_193506.jpg
20170324_193549.jpg
On a side note: what is the deal with pictures either sideways or upside-down on this site?
Sharron has them working on the “to the top button”. 
Mojo, did you happen to purchase prior to the lawsuit?
I do believe Garmin was selling transducers with the patent infringing technology. A few lucky soles I believe benefitted.
My transducer, most likely did come out before a lawsuit. I read last year that Garmin was getting sued over the DI, and I thought that the newer units were not going to have DI, but that isn’t the case, but as you said maybe because I have an earlier transducer it works with chirp. I have a friend that has an all new garmin setup, I will look at his and see if his has chirp listed on the DI and SI screens. For the record these pictures came from my brand new garmin, but it has the older transducers on it.
Mojo, did you happen to purchase prior to the lawsuit?
I do believe Garmin was selling transducers with the patent infringing technology. A few lucky soles I believe benefitted.
Here I believe is the same transducer I have that is still listed on the garmin site. It still shows chirp for DI SI
Holy Jimmeny!! Is that price for a transducer?
Here I believe is the same transducer I have that is still listed on the garmin site. It still shows chirp for DI SI
Garmin gives you the ability to buy a transducer that has only what you want. I bought one that offered everything. If you buy them without chirp in either the SI and traditional it drops the price as well as one without as much power then they are more reasonable. That could be a possibility that the transducer for the Garmin may be the cheapest lowest power option. May not be the case in the video, but not comparing apples to apples to make a product look so much better isn’t a new thing.
Cant speak to the Garmin as I havnt used one on the water and none of my friends has one. Reviews on them seem to be positive. For me, the panoptix seems like it would be neat for seeing musky follows on dark water.
I am happy with my HDS9s on my boat. Havnt had good luck with HB. Why are you thinking of switching? Just curious.
I’m behind the times I’ll admit that. I’m loyal to the product that has not failed me the last 12 years after the others failed before that time in short succession of trial. Over the years of seing fails and poor customers service of the two dominating I’m happy to stick with the new offered by Garmin. No reason to compare success to proven failures. Move over ford and chevy another american company maid in another country has planted its flag.
Not happy with that.
Anybody remeber the company that created down vu? Early 90’s maybe late 80’s around the time dad past away and I had a allumicraft custom delux rattle trp I believe.
Not buying it for one second. Why don’t they run the 2 at the same time on the same pass, not make a pass with only one running at a time. Until I see that I call total BS
They did. Worth watching that part the results are pretty interesting
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bob clowncolor wrote:</div>
Correct me if I’m wrong and maybe things have changed but wasn’t Humminbird also not using true DownScan? When I researched which unit to buy some years ago, I though HB was taking it’s SI and “generating” an DI view? Is HB now using Lowrance technology on their DI?I think that’s right; Humminbird uses Lowrance downscan patents and Lowrance uses Humminbird SI patents.
HummingBird bought the SI technology from a company called Computrol. Computrol owned BottomLine Depth Finders and Canon Down-riggers. BottomLine depth finders were pretty bullet proof. I had one with SI on the bow and loved it but when it quit working parts were not available to fix it.
Don’t know anything about the licensing agreements between HB and Lowrance.
Cant speak to the Garmin as I havnt used one on the water and none of my friends has one. Reviews on them seem to be positive. For me, the panoptix seems like it would be neat for seeing musky follows on dark water.
I am happy with my HDS9s on my boat. Havnt had good luck with HB. Why are you thinking of switching? Just curious.
Features that are available on the New EcoMaps series vs Lawrance comparable.
Like not wanting to share live mapping data was a big one.
So after a lot of reading about this, here is what I have learned. The GT transducers all have a dedicated down viewing crystal. The CV (clear vu) transducers do not, they use the side ducer and software stitching (as explained in the video). If anyone is concerned about not having a dedicated crystal, they can purchase a GT transducer and it will work fine. In fact, from what I’ve read, a lot of CV owners are now contacting Garmin to try and replace their CV transducers. The lawsuit does not prohibit Garmin from selling the GT transducer separate, only from bundling it with the unit. Check your ducer. If it’s the GT model you are good.
So after a lot of reading about this, here is what I have learned. The GT transducers all have a dedicated down viewing crystal. The CV (clear vu) transducers do not, they use the side ducer and software stitching (as explained in the video). If anyone is concerned about not having a dedicated crystal, they can purchase a GT transducer and it will work fine. In fact, from what I’ve read, a lot of CV owners are now contacting Garmin to try and replace their CV transducers. The lawsuit does not prohibit Garmin from selling the GT transducer separate, only from bundling it with the unit. Check your ducer. If it’s the GT model you are good.
Correct.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
