Keith Ellison goes after fleet farm

blackbay wrote:

This would be like a liquor store being liable for legally selling beer to someone over 21 and who then gave the beer to minors who drove drunk and killed someone.

exactly

Yeah, it’s almost as crazy as holding pharmacies responsible for doling out oxycontin like it was candy. I mean, the doctors prescribed it, the pharmacists were just doing their job. That case would be dead in the water.

Oh, wait.

dirtywater wrote:

Yeah, it’s almost as crazy as holding pharmacies responsible for doling out oxycontin like it was candy. I mean, the doctors prescribed it, the pharmacists were just doing their job. That case would be dead in the water.

Oh, wait.

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Did the purchaser go through a federal government background check before getting the prescription?

As the some said before this is a roundabout attempt at gun control and a failure to implement laws already in place.

A few people have said that if NICS passes the seller is clear. Form 4473 says this in regards to question 27:

Warning: Any person who transfers a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearm violates the law, 18 U.S.C. 922(d), even if the transferor/seller has complied with the Federal background check requirements.

18 USC 922 922(d) paragraph 11 describes a person who:
intends to sell or otherwise dispose of the firearm or ammunition to a person described in any of paragraphs (1) through (10).

If any of the purchases were for someone prohibited by that section, and surely some of them were, then it does matter whether the seller had a reasonable cause to believe they were straw purchases or not.

Agree 100%

Reef W wrote:

A few people have said that if NICS passes the seller is clear. Form 4473 says this in regards to question 27:

Warning: Any person who transfers a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearm violates the law, 18 U.S.C. 922(d), even if the transferor/seller has complied with the Federal background check requirements.

18 USC 922 922(d) paragraph 11 describes a person who:
intends to sell or otherwise dispose of the firearm or ammunition to a person described in any of paragraphs (1) through (10).

If any of the purchases were for someone prohibited by that section, and surely some of them were, then it does matter whether the seller had a reasonable cause to believe they were straw purchases or not.

And how exactly would the sales people from 4 different stores, with possibly 4 different sales persons from each store, supposed to know what the purchaser intended to do with the firearms they purchased?
This would be completely different if the straw purchaser was going to the same store with the same salesman.

Question: When the background check form is completed at a retail store or gun store … does the government compile this into a database which is then tracked ? if yes, then the ATF (or whatever agency) should have flagged the individuals buying so many … or wait is this something anyone really wants (active tracking and monitoring) ???

Can we assume the straw purchasers were caught when guns were seized from a crime scene and then traced back by serial numbers to MFF and the original buyer ?? Once these names were identified all their purchases were queried ?

MFF has to be the largest retail gun seller in MN. I am in MFF much more often than Joes, Reeds, Cabela’s or Scheels, but the MFF gun area is always far busier. Couple in there are more MFF outlets across MN.

Side note: I was driving into the MFF yard one day when a young adult male was running hard along the yard side wall. I spoke with the yard gate guy on my way out and he said they steal ammo and run out the garden center entrance.

Brittman wrote:

Can we assume the straw purchasers were caught when guns were seized from a crime scene and then traced back by serial numbers to MFF and the original buyer ?? Once these names were identified all their purchases were queried ?

This is exactly how it happened.

Tom schmitt wrote:

And how exactly would the sales people from 4 different stores, with possibly 4 different sales persons from each store, supposed to know what the purchaser intended to do with the firearms they purchased?
This would be completely different if the straw purchaser was going to the same store with the same salesman.

Hell if I know. I’m just pointing out that a gun store has been successfully sued for this before (Badger Guns) and the form implies the seller has some liability.

It’s KE attempt to pester FF enough, that they stop selling firearms. It’s back door gun control. He’s a real piece of crap.

Just another socialist trying to justify to his base why he technically has a job … what he actually does is a mystery beyond sight and sound, but I digress as usual

As always, if an incumbent, get rid of them, they already have the entitlement gene that cannot be removed, party makes no difference

Paulski

Stewart Mills ran as a Republican candidate for District 8 US House of Rep. (twice). Lost twice.

The Mills family is likely a strong Republican party supporter and financial donor.

Coincidence on this lawsuit as we near the MN AG election and Ellison is slipping in the polls. Each can decide.

I don’t think the mills family owns fleet farm anymore. I thought they sold it a few years ago.

Brittman wrote:

MFF has to be the largest retail gun seller in MN. I am in MFF much more often than Joes, Reeds, Cabela’s or Scheels, but the MFF gun area is always far busier. Couple in there are more MFF outlets across MN.

Side note: I was driving into the MFF yard one day when a young adult male was running hard along the yard side wall. I spoke with the yard gate guy on my way out and he said they steal ammo and run out the garden center entrance.

I would say Reeds is the largest firearm dealer. They sell a lot of guns online.

CaptainMusky wrote:

I don’t think the mills family owns fleet farm anymore. I thought they sold it a few years ago.

Yes Fleet Farm sold a few years ago to a company out east I believe but cant think of the name. That’s why recently Fleet Farm has put in a lot more grocery items and lack of inventory as well….

This is just ridiculous what he is doing and that’s all I’m going to say.

KP wrote:

Yes Fleet Farm sold a few years ago to a company out east I believe but cant think of the name. That’s why recently Fleet Farm has put in a lot more grocery items and lack of inventory as well….

Just looked it up. KKR out of New York, some holdings company. Sold in 2016. That seems around the time the one family member was running for office?

I think you are correct. Stewart Mills?

When KE blamed the police for the riots… that should have opened enough eyes to get his azz thrown out… unless mail ballots.

KP wrote:

I think you are correct. Stewart Mills?

Yes, he ran against Rick Nolan (incumbent) in the 8th Congressional District for selection to the US House of Representatives, and was defeated by a very slim margin on November 4, 2014.

Seen an article that the owner of Alibis in Lakeville, that opened her bar against the Fuhrer Walz’s orders during the hype of Covid, is selling her bars, as Keith Ellison sued her. She got heavy fines and loss of liquor license renewals. But they are all for small business now.

Fuhrer Walz? I support both Ellison and Walz. If you don’t think that part of the increasing violence in MN is from easy access to guns, than you’re not seeing the big picture. I’ll bet you’re one of the first to complain about violence in MN and I’d also guess that you’re one of the first to complain about peoples’ rights to buy guns, no matter if they are assault weapons or not.
I respect your opinion but your Fuhrer Walz comment crosses the line. He did what he thought was best for MN during COVID and it wasn’t hype by any stretch of the imagination. Almost 14,000 people in MN have died from COVID.
If you have a better idea of how he should have handled it or something better that Keith Ellison could do, please tell us all.
Perhaps you should run for office instead of practicing website politics like so many do in today’s world.

Karry Kyllo wrote:

Fuhrer Walz? I support both Ellison and Walz. If you don’t think that part of the increasing violence in MN is from easy access to guns, than you’re not seeing the big picture. I’ll bet you’re one of the first to complain about violence in MN and I’d also guess that you’re one of the first to complain about peoples’ rights to buy guns, no matter if they are assault weapons or not.
I respect your opinion but your Fuhrer Walz comment crosses the line. He did what he thought was best for MN during COVID and it wasn’t hype by any stretch of the imagination. Almost 14,000 people in MN have died from COVID.
If you have a better idea of how he should have handled it or something better that Keith Ellison could do, please tell us all.
Perhaps you should run for office instead of practicing website politics like so many do in today’s world.

Bingo!

Jimmy Jones wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Karry Kyllo wrote:</div>
Fuhrer Walz? I support both Ellison and Walz. If you don’t think that part of the increasing violence in MN is from easy access to guns, than you’re not seeing the big picture. I’ll bet you’re one of the first to complain about violence in MN and I’d also guess that you’re one of the first to complain about peoples’ rights to buy guns, no matter if they are assault weapons or not.
I respect your opinion but your Fuhrer Walz comment crosses the line. He did what he thought was best for MN during COVID and it wasn’t hype by any stretch of the imagination. Almost 14,000 people in MN have died from COVID.
If you have a better idea of how he should have handled it or something better that Keith Ellison could do, please tell us all.
Perhaps you should run for office instead of practicing website politics like so many do in today’s world.

Bingo!

Since you asked here’s a list of some of his failures as Governor, a supposed leader and accomplishing his BS tag line of One Minnesota.

1. Let Minneapolis burn, for almost two additional days after Mayor Frey requested the National Guard.

2. Feeding our Future scandal, hundreds of millions stolen from feeding children.

3. LOCKED Covid positive into LTC, despite knowing from Italy the elderly were most at risk. And then didn’t allow family to visit them in their dying days.

4. Locked students OUT of schools.

5. Kept the candy store, casinos and big box stores open while closing thousands of small businesses.

6. Limited funerals to 10 or less, I couldn’t attend my friends Dads funeral while him and the political elite had a photo op attending George Floyd’s funeral with hundreds.

7. Weaponized Keith Ellison against any small biz that disobeyed (still going on) fining them 10’s of thousands after forcing them closed for an extended period of time.

8. Forced barbershops/salons closed while he had private haircuts.

9. Cancelled the governors fishing opener, twice, which had never been done in 74 years.

10. Abandoned his military unit before deployment.

11. 2 weeks to flatten the curve, turned into months to increase hospital capacity, while only 15 out of 137 hospitals added a single bed.

12. Maintained his unconstitutional executive powers for 400+ days.

13. Called the National Guard, of which he was a supposed proud member, 19 year old cooks.

14. Called the entire outstate nothing but Rocks and Cows.

15. Spent millions on Bethesda Hospital and the downtown cold storage unit, and barely used either.

I despise many things about both parties, and understand if you don’t want to vote for his opponent either, but Warden Walz needs to be sent back to Nebraska. Minnesota NEEDS a fresh start. So we can truly get back to One Minnesota.

Number 1 on that list is the one that really bothered me. Both Mayor Frey and Governor Walz waited too long to call in more troops and guards during those riots. Half the city was destroyed because of it.

I liked this thread. This was a good thread lol.

BigWerm wrote:

Since you asked here’s a list of some of his failures as Governor, a supposed leader and accomplishing his BS tag line of One Minnesota.

You might want to read his post again, because you are definitely not answering the question he asked.

And Big G, I agree with Karry that using the word “Fuhrer” to describe Tim Walz is so far out of touch it’s not even funny. Ruthless tyranny, this is not.

dirtywater wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
Since you asked here’s a list of some of his failures as Governor, a supposed leader and accomplishing his BS tag line of One Minnesota.

You might want to read his post again, because you are definitely not answering the question he asked.

And Big G, I agree with Karry that using the word “Fuhrer” to describe Tim Walz is so far out of touch it’s not even funny. Ruthless tyranny, this is not.

He said if you have a better idea on Walz’s (mis)handling of Covid, almost all of my points are related to Covid tyranny by Walz or events that occurred during Covid. I struck the one that had no Covid relation.

He asked what walz should have done differently; that calls for a positive statement not a gripe list. It’s a whole lot easier to point out what you see as a leader’s failures than it is to actually think constructively about how he could have realistically (within the framework of our political and Justice system) done things better. And this is part of the problem in this country. We have too many folks screaming and whining about how the other side is wrong, and too few who actually think critically about solving problems or taking alternative approaches.

dirtywater wrote:

He asked what walz should have done differently; that calls for a positive statement not a gripe list. It’s a whole lot easier to point out what you see as a leader’s failures than it is to actually think constructively about how he could have realistically (within the framework of our political and Justice system) done things better. And this is part of the problem in this country. We have too many folks screaming and whining about how the other side is wrong, and too few who actually think critically about solving problems or taking alternative approaches.

With all due respect that list is self explanatory.
1. Don’t let your largest city burn, take control from the start, don’t encourage the behavior, maintain the rule of law, and never ever ever turn a police precinct over to the mob.
2. Stop the fraud and prosecute those running it when it was a $20m fraud, don’t wait for the money to go overseas especially after letting it grow to $250m+.
3. Focus on protecting the elderly, who everyone knew was most at risk. Don’t dump Covid+ back into LTC, that’s why they refitted Bethesda and we’re *supposedly* building capacity. And not letting them be seen by family is just cruel.
4. Keep schools open especially since kids are not at significant risk. My kids were in daycare the entire time, schools should have been too.
5-8. We are a free country, allow people to make their own choices, especially in regards to their businesses and livelihoods. Any regulation should apply to all businesses the same, don’t be a hypocrite and leave big corps, casinos, and your attendance at GF funeral or your barber open while the rest of the state is delaying or having minimum attendance funerals, weddings or even as simple as haircuts. Leaders lead by example, and his example was hypocrisy and authoritarianism (imagine if Trump had taken 400+ days of executive powers with no legislative input or influence).