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gimruis wrote:

Its true. There were 2 very high ranking officers at FDA that resigned 2 weeks ago as well. The reason they cited for resigning was due to the political nature that is being entrenched into the vaccine and vaccine booster approval process at the agency. Its not just right now either with the current administration. They specifically stated that it was like this during the previous Trump administration too.

FDA has a very strict guideline and procedure for approving drugs and vaccines. They have followed this protocol for many, many years. When politicians start sticking their nose in there, problems occur.

Here’s a story on it.

There are numerous highly regarded experts criticizing Biden’s call for boosters. The CDC and WHO have both found no benefit for booster doses in healthy individuals at this time. The WHO has been adamantly against it for some time.

Don’t know if this been covered. So, it looks like it’s hard to get a covid test lately. The boss had to pay a private firm to get tested $400. My worker couldn’t find a place¹ after symptoms of sickness for a test so he didn’t know what to do as for work. Told him come in and don’t worry about me if felt fine. I trust him.
Take away testing unless you pay to force vaccine is messed up. Try to do the right thing for testing.
So, this is a messed up situation.

Vent over almost. With worker shortage a good worker that wants to work and learn is hard to find.
F NOBODY KNOWS SHITE.

Don’t like feeling like a hanging Chad or a skin Chad that I want to take toe nail clippers to.

Blaming a political party is bull.

Testing availability seems to be pretty bad right now. Vault, the free tests from the state are no longer free if you order online. The state has some free testing sites that I’d highly recommend. Once you are signed up on the Vault website, it’s about 5 minutes in and out. Should see results within 48 hours as long as it wasn’t shipped on a weekend. It’s easier than getting a burrito at chipotle.

Speaking of chipotle, several of the local restaurants are closed for about 1/2 the day due to staff shortages. Online ordering is turned off at a bunch of location as well.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Either way, they have to ask you for your immunization records, which you would authorize, hence following HIPAA guidelines.

No. But ok. I’ll play along anyway. Then refuse your vaccination records. That’s perfectly acceptable under the “mandate”. Submit to regular testing.

Several US senators and representatives don’t seem to understand HIPAA either.

Again…semantics. I am not talking about any “mandate”… I am talking about conditions of employment, which I thought you were referencing. An individual can be “required” to drug test pre employment or during, submit to a physical pre employment, submit to any vaccinations the employer requires, or show proof of vaccination.. as a condition of employment. Now, to get your vaccination records, they cannot just call into your doctor and ask for them… they would need your “permission” to receive them… a signed release form, BECAUSE of HIPAA.

Thanks Matt. Look into that. Really appreciate it!

big_g wrote:

Now, to get your vaccination records, they cannot just call into your doctor and ask for them… they would need your “permission” to receive them… a signed release form, BECAUSE of HIPAA.

Yes that’s correct. But nothing has changed there. Nothing. HIPAA is not going to stop a vaccine mandate and it’s not going to stop your employer from asking for it. That’s my point. HIPAA does not prevent your employer from requiring it.

Now the argument has drifted into semantics.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gregory wrote:</div>
.

Gregory, you can still get sick after vaccination. There isn’t a single vaccine out there that is 100% prevention from getting sick. What the vaccine does very well is keep the majority of people out of the hospital, upwards of 90%. The CDC reported that over 98% of the cases in hospitals in the US in July and August were unvaccinated.

The CDC defines a mild or moderate case as one you can recover from at home, so the people you mentioned are having a mild breakthrough case even though they may seem very sick. I hope your sister feels better soon and recovers.

Thanks, yep I get it to a point.
I was really close on going and getting vaccinated pretty much from pressure. But in the last week or so I feel differently for now. My electrician came down with a weird syndrome after getting his vaccination. So just to many in my bubble for now.

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TH wrote:</div>
Isn’t your vaccine status your private medical information?

Not necessarily.

Vaccination records have been required for children to attend public school for many decades.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) is to assure that your sensitive health records aren’t being disclosed without your knowledge. For instance, your employer or doctor cannot share your information with anyone not authorized to view your information.

Many jobs require you to get a physical or a drug test and that information is shared with your employer. Where’s the outrage there?

Your “Not necessarily” is contradicted by your HIPAA statement following it. It ABSOLUTELY is private medical information., that an employer may receive if you sign a release form.

I was only stating, potential employees who receive your physical or drug test results, you have given consent for them to have it, just as you would have to vaccination records. There should be no outrage for something you volunteer, when trying to gain employment.

(now some people take offense & have outrage to drug testing to get a job, but not to get welfare or unemployment, that’s a whole other subject)

1hl&sinker wrote:

Thanks Matt. Look into that. Really appreciate it!

Go here.

Here’s the thing that bothers me. Keep in mind I got my vaccine in January. People are posting about complications they or their family members have had on social media only to make people aware of what is happening in small percentages. These posts are being TAKEN DOWN and hidden by the social media companies themselves for being “false information”. These are proven cases where the docs have stated it is a vaccine complication.

The real messed up thing is these people aren’t anti vaxxers! They got the vaccine and are only trying to be open about their experiences and I think it’s BS that it is being hidden from the public. We had a 21 year old, perfectly healthy kid come in with acute heart failure a week after getting the vaccine. He’s now got an LVAD pumping his blood for his heart and is on the transplant list. Our doctors are convinced that this was a complication from the vaccine. Everything wrong with this whole covid issue is the government overstepping their authority.

I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t get the vaccine or scare people. But the reality is there are complications in a small percentage of cases and it’s pretty darn scary when you can’t even talk about it without having it taken down or censored by big brother.

big_g wrote:

Your “Not necessarily” is contradicted by your HIPAA statement following it. It ABSOLUTELY is private medical information., that an employer may receive if you sign a release form.

I was only stating, potential employees who receive your physical or drug test results, you have given consent for them to have it, just as you would have to vaccination records. There should be no outrage for something you volunteer, when trying to gain employment.

You’re right, it’s semantics. Yes, HIPAA prevents a clinic from releasing your medical information to your employer but it doesn’t prevent the employer from asking for it or requiring it. Your employer asks for it, you could get the records yourself without any consent form whatsoever, or you can sign a consent form for your employer to access it. The clinic cannot release it without consent.

HIPAA does not prevent your employer from asking for it. You can refuse just like you can refuse to go into work tomorrow and they cannot obtain it from any clinic. They can also fire you just because it’s Wednesday.

Its only voluntary if you are gaining employment but it’s not limited to that. Understand that an employer can implement drug testing without your consent at any time. This wouldn’t be voluntary. The consent would only apply to the employer obtaining the result. If you don’t sign the consent, they could discipline or fire you.

biggill wrote:

Some more:

The results, published in a preprint on 19 August1, suggest that both vaccines are effective against Delta after two doses, but that the protection they offer wanes with time. The vaccine made by Pfizer in New York City and BioNTech in Mainz, Germany, was 92% effective at keeping people from developing a high viral load — a high concentration of the virus in their test samples — 14 days after the second dose. But the vaccine’s effectiveness fell to 90%, 85% and 78% after 30, 60 and 90 days, respectively.

The study shows that vaccinated people who become infected with the Delta variant carry high peak levels of virus. When the Alpha variant was dominant in the United Kingdom, vaccinated people who became infected had much lower peak viral loads.

The implications of this aren’t clear, Walker says. “Most of our tests are monthly; we can’t really say very much at all about how long people are infectious for and particularly whether that’s different with Delta,” she says. “Anyone who thinks that if they get infected having been vaccinated, they can’t transmit — that isn’t likely to be true.”

source

Thank you for the info.

The other thing that bothers me is they aren’t considering antibodies as well as a condition for work.

mahtofire14 wrote:

Here’s the thing that bothers me. Keep in mind I got my vaccine in January. People are posting about complications they or their family members have had on social media only to make people aware of what is happening in small percentages. These posts are being TAKEN DOWN and hidden by the social media companies themselves for being “false information”. These are proven cases where the docs have stated it is a vaccine complication.

The real messed up thing is these people aren’t anti vaxxers! They got the vaccine and are only trying to be open about their experiences and I think it’s BS that it is being hidden from the public. We had a 21 year old, perfectly healthy kid come in with acute heart failure a week after getting the vaccine. He’s now got an LVAD pumping his blood for his heart and is on the transplant list. Our doctors are convinced that this was a complication from the vaccine. Everything wrong with this whole covid issue is the government overstepping their authority.

I’m not trying to say people shouldn’t get the vaccine or scare people. But the reality is there are complications in a small percentage of cases and it’s pretty darn scary when you can’t even talk about it without having it taken down or censored by big brother.

Thank you for posting this. And if these doctors were to go in public and give their medical opinions, they would be called conspiracists and crazies and maybe have their license suspended. They would be censored on FB, Twitter and all media. Too often, and even in this thread, I see people say “I hope those without the shot, get it bad and die”… I am the opposite… I hope those who got the shot, do not have long term effects or underlying issues coming up in the future… my recently attained RN Niece who works in the ER, just HAD to get the shot… she was hesitant, but needs to work, she has a 8 month old son and I pray to god nothing becomes of the shot.

Mahto, censorship is a real problem theres no doubt. This is the kind of crap they are up against.

I’m of the opinion that censorship is a very slippery slope. Even if you censor information in good faith, you set a precedence for someone acting in bad faith having the power to dangerously manipulate information somewhere down the road.

Censorship aside, we need to realize that anecdotal information is almost never representative of the whole picture and may not even prove a correlation.

Speaking of censorship, I have a friend that got the vaccine and had a bad reaction to it that caused him to go to the hospital. While at the hospital he was asked many times if he had been vaccinated by staff while undergoing tests. He said he was and then was told not tell anyone about his reaction. If that doesn’t make you think twice I don’t know what will. I’m not going to tell anyone what to do about the vaccine it should be all personal choice based on your own feelings or health status.

There is definitely A LOT of crap floating around the interwebs and media on both sides of the argument. But these real instances that are being censored as fake or “misinformation” when it’s real people and real factual proof, in my opinion, is the government manipulating things to keep their agenda. Both sides do it and it’s wrong in both instances. Things need to be filtered and proven as legitimate information but people need to see these instances too because it’s a side of the vaccine that the media and government isn’t willing to shed light on. Which is why I knew from the first day the politicians got ahold of this it was going to get really, really, ugly.

Michael Osterholm had a video removed from youtube for misinformation. It is a real problem.

Personally, I’d rather see less information altogether than censorship. I’ve wondered for a long time where google is trying to us when we use their search engine.

Big brother isn’t the government anymore. Its amazon, facebook, google and twitter

biggill wrote:

Michael Osterholm had a video removed from youtube for misinformation. It is a real problem.

If Osterholm has been censored that is huge. This guy has been wrong from the start and his face is everywhere. He is lauded as an expert but my Lord nothing he’s predicted has come to fruition thankfully but it’s driven lots of policy and decision.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Wodziak wrote:</div>
Michael Osterholm had a video removed from youtube for misinformation. It is a real problem.

If Osterholm has been censored that is huge. This guy has been wrong from the start and his face is everywhere. He is lauded as an expert but my Lord nothing he’s predicted has come to fruition thankfully but it’s driven lots of policy and decision.

Osterholm knows his stuff. To be fair, most of the “experts” have been wrong on many things throughout this whole affair.

biggill wrote:

Testing availability seems to be pretty bad right now.

I got tested at this place 2 weeks ago. It’s in Eden Prairie.
https://www.oraldna.com/TCO-COVID19/

The sample is an oral rinse and the test is a PCR test, the most sensitive. I had my results in 7 hours. When I went to schedule my appointment, the whole day was open. I think it’s $150 without insurance.

Osterholm knows his stuff. To be fair, most of the “experts” have been wrong on many things throughout this whole affair.
[/quote]

There’s my issue with the entire situation. Each side say “listen to the experts”.

There aren’t any Experts, just social media that will let you find what you want to hear.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

There aren’t any Experts, just social media that will let you find what you want to hear.

The mainstream media has a habit of doing the same by finding anyone with an MD next to their name to preach the word of the day. It either plays the tune that people want to hear or it is intended to spark the usual outrage by those who stand on the other side of the aisle. One of the biggest disservices is their tendency to report any non-peer reviewed or preprint scientific studies they either confirms their bias or sparks outrage.

It’s my firm opinion that we need to listen to people like Osterholm to weed through the crap rather than listen to the media on this subject. For those of you that think he’s been wrong or is some purveyor of doom need to listen to his podcasts before you form that opinion. He goes deeply into the disservice and chaos that the CDC and leadership in this country has caused. He’s always maintained that universal masking is largely ineffective. He’s aired his concerns with lockdowns, vaccine mandates, media coverage. He is convinced that outbreaks of this pandemic can’t be predicted. If anyone says they know what will happen in 2 weeks he will call them a liar.

His weekly podcast is due out today for those that are interested.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

There aren’t any Experts

I don’t know if you’re specifically speaking about Covid, but I consider my regular primary care doctor to be an expert in his field and that is why I choose to follow his advice. As previously stated, to argue with his opinion on the subject of medical information would be foolish and have no merit, which is exactly why I don’t do it.

As for Osterholm, I think he’s a smart guy but he’s always so negative and the bringer of negativity and doom and gloom. Guy needs to lighten up a little bit and see the glass as half full sometimes. Just my 2 cents

mahtofire14 wrote:

Osterholm knows his stuff. To be fair, most of the “experts” have been wrong on many things throughout this whole affair.

No doubt he is an intelligent individual but the fact that a bonafide infectious disease expert doesnt follow the science when there is more data about this virus than anything in history is concerning and a major red flag. His face is all over the news and he is the poster child for the chaos in the US. His comments and projections have driven decisions made by politicians. We complain about a weatherman getting the forecast wrong but nearly 100% of the time it doesnt affect human lives. His comments most certainly has. Its not like after a preponderance of evidence and data that he takes a step back on his forecasts, he doubles down!

37yo male with good health. What’s my odds of:
Death?
Severe complications?

Never had the flu never had a flu shot near as I can tell never had covid.

All those blanket claiming unvaccinated are dumb, and will die please respond.

Oh, please add in the actual odds of me getting covid

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
There aren’t any Experts

I don’t know if you’re specifically speaking about Covid, but I consider my regular primary care doctor to be an expert in his field and that is why I choose to follow his advice. As previously stated, to argue with his opinion on the subject of medical information would be foolish and have no merit, which is exactly why I don’t do it.

As for Osterholm, I think he’s a smart guy but he’s always so negative and the bringer of negativity and doom and gloom. Guy needs to lighten up a little bit and see the glass as half full sometimes. Just my 2 cents

Yes, of course I’m specifically speaking of Covid. Kinda what the topic is about.
and I’ll stand by my statement that there are NO Experts.

FishBlood&RiverMud wrote:

please add in the actual odds of me getting covid

The most recent odds of getting infected: 1 out of 8. Odds of dying: 1 in 500.

These numbers were just released yesterday by the CDC based on the data available. It did not break down the odds in terms of age, gender, or underlying health conditions so take it with a grain of salt. The chances of hospitalization are about 20 times greater if you are unvaccinated across all demographics in America.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Yes, of course I’m specifically speaking of Covid. Kinda what the topic is about.
and I’ll stand by my statement that there are NO Experts.

Thank you for clarifying and that’s what I had assumed.

AGAIN – media
If we could get straight and consistent answers and see our leadership actually at trying to do this there would be a lot less resistance. The messages are too many, too varied and too contradictory. The hospital situations already outlined are accurate. Have a similar circumstance in our family.
As for social media all are absolutely correct. They are controlling the message, that should be patently clear to anyone – way too many instances that have gotten thru to not believe this. If you believe social media you are getting exactly what you deserve as you are helping to fuel the fire.
A niece does not want to get the vaccine because the “govt can track her?!” Honey, you have an iphone, that ship has already sailed.
That is just wrong and keeps the “division” mantra in place and going strong.
This is clearly a strong topic for an outdoor thread and I have participated more than I should but feeling the stress like everyone else on here.

Funny, I have never heard of anyone dying at home from covid.
Just a random thought. Oh, and I own page 10. Carry on.